Sam Curran what an all rounder

[SK_IH]

27 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pandya did the same in SL when he scored a 100 and 15 wickets fell on that same day he scored 100.

problem with Pandya is , he is not good enough to play at n.6 in tests and his bowling is not good enough to augment his batting. classic bits n pieces

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

problem with Pandya is , he is not good enough to play at n.6 in tests and his bowling is not good enough to augment his batting. classic bits n pieces

He is good enough to play at 6, IMO, especially in SC conditions.  In England, even main batsmen struggled but you are singling him out. Let me give you some stat.  Kohli in his first 8 test averaged 32 and he averaged 15 in WI in 3 tests in his debut series.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by rkt.india

[SK_IH]

27 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He is good enough to play at 6, IMO, especially in SC conditions.  In England, even main batsmen struggled but you are singling him out.      

 Its a not a case of singling him out, its just that he disturbs the balance of the side. may be yeah in sub-continent, where spinners might cover up for 3rd seamer.

[CoverDrive]

18 hours ago, rkt.india said:

he will eventually become a batsman and will bat in top 6.

I have to agree with this. Just looks so comfortable in defence and attack. 

[Global.Baba]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

He is good enough to play at 6, IMO, especially in SC conditions.  In England, even main batsmen struggled but you are singling him out. Let me give you some stat.  Kohli in his first 8 test averaged 32 and he averaged 15 in WI in 3 tests in his debut series.  

If a lower order bat outscored a top order bat then the problem is with the top order bat. That doesn’t mean you reverse the batting order or you automatically promote the lower order bat.

 

In SC, even a guy like Jayant Yadav can score 100s and his bowling will be more useful than Pandya. Not advocating Jayant but just using him as an example. Pandya getting a shot to pad up some stats and occupying a slot is unfair to all the batsman who toil hard and knock on the door of Indian test team especially when Pandya as a bowler is toothless in SC.

 

Similarly Pandya the bowler overseas is blocking more capable bowlers knocking the door of selection and not that his batting is singlehandedly making a difference. I used Bhuvi as an example. He can score as many runs as Pandya and be more useful with the ball and it might be the case for many other full time bowlers out there.

 

 

This is almost Mohammed Amir type excuses that Padosis come up with to justify Pandya’s place.

 

Guys like Ali and Woakes and even Curran make it to the team as pure bowlers.

 

Mitch Marsh or Watson before him played as pure batsman.

 

Are they good enough or not is a different debate. I am just pointing out the logic in playing Pandya who is affecting the team balance rather than stabilizing it.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Global.Baba

[Ankit_sharma03]

43 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

 Its a not a case of singling him out, its just that he disturbs the balance of the side. may be yeah in sub-continent, where spinners might cover up for 3rd seamer.

hows he is disturbing the balance???

His presence take away the pressure of workload from our bowler. Just check the number of overs bowled by our fast bowlers in 5th test of england

Also a cushion incase a bowler gets injured , which happened in 3rd test when ashwin got injured. And opp to that when in zak got injured in 2011 1st test england and dhoni had to come n bowl 

 

If u play extra bowler our batting becomes more week which already has 4 inconsistent batsman out of 5

4 hours ago, Lannister said:

He is a better batsman than Pandya and a better bowler too, offering a left-arm variation. It's a blessing in disguise that Pandya is injured for Australian tour. Depending on the series result, he may not play Test cricket for a considerable future unless he improves himself. 

blessing in disguise????

Look at the number of bowlers bowled by our bowlers in 5th test england and that was a good batting wkt

 

Do u want bumrah, shami, bhuvi to bowl tons n tons of overs in australia , those hard ground and batting pancakes.....and then they play other formats to........Just before the WC that immense amount of workload 

Next is NZ tour 

after IPL which no one will Miss 

 

In SA n ENG pitches had a lot of help for seamers so it didnt come to 5th bowler most time, Aus wkts are pattas .....high scores wud be made and fast bowlers will hve to bowl a lot 

 

How the hell is that blessing in disguise ???

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 hours ago, putrevus said:

I have not seen Pandya exhibiting better technique. Sam is showing growth already as cricketer in six months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So ?????

May be he is better gifted then pandya or may be not 

 

The point is we need pandya, not what england has

 

England or NZ wnt throw root or williamson out jst becoz they are not as a good as kohli

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

hows he is disturbing the balance???

His presence take away the pressure of workload from our bowler. Just check the number of overs bowled by our fast bowlers in 5th test of england

Also a cushion incase a bowler gets injured , which happened in 3rd test when ashwin got injured. And opp to that when in zak got injured in 2011 1st test england and dhoni had to come n bowl 

 

If u play extra bowler our batting becomes more week which already has 4 inconsistent batsman out of 5

blessing in disguise????

Look at the number of bowlers bowled by our bowlers in 5th test england and that was a good batting wkt

 

Do u want bumrah, shami, bhuvi to bowl tons n tons of overs in australia , those hard ground and batting pancakes.....and then they play other formats to........Just before the WC that immense amount of workload 

Next is NZ tour 

after IPL which no one will Miss 

 

In SA n ENG pitches had a lot of help for seamers so it didnt come to 5th bowler most time, Aus wkts are pattas .....high scores wud be made and fast bowlers will hve to bowl a lot 

 

How the hell is that blessing in disguise ???

If you need a batting cushion you play an extra bat and vice versa if you need bowling cushion.

 

It is a bonus if the guy can handle himself in the other department. 

 

I am sure there are marginally better spinners than Moeen Ali in English cricket but they may not be that much more better. So his batting is an absolute bonus.

 

However there are both batsmen and bowlers leagues ahead of Pandya in Indian domestics. I am sure some of them can handle themselves marginally in the 2nd skill.

 

How are you not seeing this simple logic.

 

If Jacques Kallis was not a great batsman and was not scoring trust me SA would not keep him around only for his bowling skill because at that time they had much better bowlers than Kallis in their domestics. Same applies to some great bowling allrounders as well.

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

If you need a batting cushion you play an extra bat and vice versa if you need bowling cushion.

We need both 

Quote

 

It is a bonus if the guy can handle himself in the other department. 

I dnt see any batsman or bowler doing that in our current setup contributing in other dept 

Quote

However there are both batsmen and bowlers leagues ahead of Pandya in Indian domestics. I am sure some of them can handle themselves marginally in the 2nd skill.

No their arent 

Shankar is one who can contribute with ball

Which im always in favour of carrying both overseas and use acc to condition

 

Sadly that is also not happening either

 

Rest their is no one atleast currently ready 

 

And ppl who keep saying  sure their is someone

Jaake dhundh ke lao, bolo mat......koi hoga????naam btao

Quote

 

How are you not seeing this simple logic.

 

If Jacques Kallis was not a great batsman and was not scoring trust me SA would not keep him around only for his bowling skill because at that time they had much better bowlers than Kallis in their domestics. Same applies to some great bowling allrounders as well.

I dnt care what kallis was

Our concern is what we need , not what SA had 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

We need both 

I dnt see any batsman or bowler doing that in our current setup contributing in other dept 

No their arent 

Shankar is one who can contribute with ball

Which im always in favour of carrying both overseas and use acc to condition

 

Sadly that is also not happening either

 

Rest their is no one atleast currently ready 

 

And ppl who keep saying  sure their is someone

Jaake dhundh ke lao, bolo mat......koi hoga????naam btao

I dnt care what kallis was

Our concern is what we need , not what SA had 

On the pitches we got in SA and Eng. 4 bowlers were enough. Sometimes Ashwin was totally  useless and sometimes Pandya. Literally 3.5 bowlers performed every time.If I remember correctly sometimes the 5th bowler was not even required. We clearly lost both series because of batting and that too our tail collapsing like a pack of cards.

 

On Flat Aussie pitches we might need a proper bowler. Even then 3 full time pacers+1 spinner is good enough. If it is old school Perth 4 full time pacers. Pandya doesn’t fit the bill either ways I am afraid.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Global.Baba said:

On the pitches we got in SA and Eng. 4 bowlers were enough.

U wnt get same pitches in Aus 

Yet pandya took a 5 fer 

Just now, Global.Baba said:

Sometimes Ashwin was totally  useless and sometimes Pandya. Literally 3.5 bowlers performed every time.If I remember correctly sometimes the 5th bowler was not even required. We clearly lost both series because of batting and that too our tail collapsing like a pack of cards.

Absolutely yet u cnt go with that thinking that it wnt be required coz any bowler can get injured which happ in 3rd test and one of our main bowlers is shami who can break anytime 

Just now, Global.Baba said:

 

On Flat Aussie pitches we might need a proper bowler. Even then 3 full time pacers+1 spinner is good enough. If it is old school Perth 4 full time pacers. Pandya doesn’t fit the bill either ways I am afraid.

we have 4 inconsitent batsman out of 5, and inconsitency is beyond pitches......plus they have a very very good bowling so we also need to think twice before doing that 

old school perth pitch i doubt we will get that 

 

They shud have selected Vijay shankar inplace of injured pandya 

 

But pandya has made runs on tough pitch like in SA and Aus-A game on a green top where all indian next line of batsman failed .....its not only technique u need a bit of application on those pitches. I dnt knw if u saw England series but do check pandya showed application in most innings in england then our batsman ......scores might not show but he did

 

We are jst stuck with the mindset that he is neither , we dnt wanna see beyond it

[SK_IH]

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

hows he is disturbing the balance???

His presence take away the pressure of workload from our bowler. Just check the number of overs bowled by our fast bowlers in 5th test of england

Also a cushion incase a bowler gets injured , which happened in 3rd test when ashwin got injured. And opp to that when in zak got injured in 2011 1st test england and dhoni had to come n bowl 

he disturbs the balance because neither he can be relied upon to score runs nor he can relied upon to take wickets. That taking pressure of the main bowlers argument only comes in if the all rounder in question is batsman of top quality, not  Pandya.

[Vk1]

18 hours ago, Suhaan said:

His utility stays with him if stays as bowling allrounder,the moment he moulds himself into a batting allrounder,i dont think he will b that effective as now

Teams are unaware of his weaknesses just makes him fly under the radar,but have to give credit where its due, marvellous

Also the psychological toll it creates in bowlers mind. Seeing a lower order guy scoring so many. Well, I am not sure if bowlers bowl to lower order with the same plans that they have for a top/middle order.. tend to lose their patience, look for that magical ball more often, try to intimidate unnecessarily and lose their confidence. 

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

blessing in disguise????

Look at the number of bowlers bowled by our bowlers in 5th test england and that was a good batting wkt

 

Do u want bumrah, shami, bhuvi to bowl tons n tons of overs in australia , those hard ground and batting pancakes.....and then they play other formats to........Just before the WC that immense amount of workload 

Next is NZ tour 

after IPL which no one will Miss 

 

In SA n ENG pitches had a lot of help for seamers so it didnt come to 5th bowler most time, Aus wkts are pattas .....high scores wud be made and fast bowlers will hve to bowl a lot 

 

How the hell is that blessing in disguise ???

Ive always believed we need 5 proper bowlers in Test Cricket and Pandya's current bowling is not up to the Test standards, and also his inconsistency with his batting, which is supposed to be his strong suit.

 

He is just like Dhoni in ODIs, messing up with the team balance, we are always a player short either with the batting or bowling whenever Pandya is in the team. 

 

But he is invaluable for our LOI team. He is a must in T20s and ODIs. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Lannister

[rkt.india]

56 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

he disturbs the balance because neither he can be relied upon to score runs nor he can relied upon to take wickets. That taking pressure of the main bowlers argument only comes in if the all rounder in question is batsman of top quality, not  Pandya.

can you rely upon Vijay, Rahane, Pujara, Rahul to score runs overseas?  

[rkt.india]

24 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Ive always believed we need 5 proper bowlers in Test Cricket and Pandya's current bowling is not up to the Test standards, and also his inconsistency with his batting, which is supposed to be his strong suit.

 

He is just like Dhoni in ODIs, messing up with the team balance, we are always a player short either with the batting or bowling whenever Pandya is in the team. 

 

But he is invaluable for our LOI team. He is a must in T20s and ODIs. 

name one team in history that played 5 proper bowlers in test cricket for any length of time. Test cricket is a game of 4 proper bowlers but you do need someone who can bowl 5-10 overs a day giving main bowlers first.  we first need to identify our best first 4 bowlers. 

[Lannister]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

name one team in history that played 5 proper bowlers in test cricket for any length of time. Test cricket is a game of 4 proper bowlers but you do need someone who can bowl 5-10 overs a day giving main bowlers first.  we first need to identify our best first 4 bowlers. 

All teams are playing nowadays. Their 5th bowlers can also take wickets on a consistent basis, not just contain runs. Here Pandya does nothing except to clown around. 

[putrevus]

He is good enough to play at 6, IMO, especially in SC conditions.  In England, even main batsmen struggled but you are singling him out. Let me give you some stat.  Kohli in his first 8 test averaged 32 and he averaged 15 in WI in 3 tests in his debut series.  

That is ridiculous to say Kohli struggled in End and Wi so it is okay for Pandya to fail. Kohli nearly scored 100 in each innings in his first test and averaged high on his first tour in SA.

Can you say Pandya will doing as much as Kohli on his subsequent visits to those countries.

Just because other batsmen failed both in England and SA , it is okay for Pandya to fail there. If they fail find batsmen who won’t fail but don’t use that as an excuse to justify Pandya’s failures.

[SK_IH]

32 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

can you rely upon Vijay, Rahane, Pujara, Rahul to score runs overseas?  

thats not the solution. if X is bad, lets condone Y

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, SK_IH said:

he disturbs the balance because neither he can be relied upon to score runs nor he can relied upon to take wickets. That taking pressure of the main bowlers argument only comes in if the all rounder in question is batsman of top quality, not  Pandya.

are those so called specialist batsman reliable ???? No 

So the problem is those specialist 1st  

 

Everytime we say pujara has question over him in overseas condition and after every tour that question remains

Rahane who was a pillar is under question

Vijay went off radar 

Rahul is yet to achieve his potential 

 

So panyda se pehle to ye sab aate hai , what do i blame pandya when i cant rely on specialist 1st