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Is it justifiable to neglect Jadeja by any yard stick??


rtmohanlal

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One thing  for sure ....as far as I know there is no one in the history of the game who  posses a (50+,25-)  avg:s in domestic  like Jadeja has. He has (56+,23.76) set of avg:s in domestic cricket. Not even Sobers or Kallis or any one of FAB 4 of 80s posses this great all round record.That alone makes him an automatic candidate to be given a long run .

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14 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

One thing  for sure ....as far as I know there is no one in the history of the game who  posses a (50+,25-)  avg:s in domestic  like Jadeja has. He has (56+,23.76) set of avg:s in domestic cricket. Not even Sobers or Kallis or any one of FAB 4 of 80s posses this great all round record.That alone makes him an automatic candidate to be given a long run .

although jaddu has not realized his full batting potential in the international scene, his outstanding FC record is primarily a function of how poor India's domestic competition is. For example, Vijay Hazare averaged around 60 with the bat and 23 with the ball (if Tests are excluded) in FC matches; in FC, he was a genuine batting allrounder who picked 575 wkts in 208 matches (excluding Tests). However, if one looks at his international record, his true ability is revealed - a genuinely top-class batsman (avg of 48 in that era) and a fairly crappy bowler.

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8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

although jaddu has not realized his full batting potential in the international scene, his outstanding FC record is primarily a function of how poor India's domestic competition is. For example, Vijay Hazare averaged around 60 with the bat and 23 with the ball (if Tests are excluded) in FC matches; in FC, he was a genuine batting allrounder who picked 575 wkts in 208 matches (excluding Tests). However, if one looks at his international record, his true ability is revealed - a genuinely top-class batsman (avg of 48 in that era) and a fairly crappy bowler.

this is the same domestic competition that has produced several 'good-legendary' international cricketers too. To add to that , just because Hazare couldn't take it to international level does not mean Jadeja can't do it. Jadeja has shown exactly that in the last 31 inns.

An avg: of almost 48 is top class by any means. Even if he avg:s  37 genuinely for the rest of his career with the bat,  that would be lot worthy because of him  already being a very good bowler. But he needs to be provided with regular chances for a start, not drop-pick formula that has always been adapted in his case.   

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Just now, rtmohanlal said:

this is the same domestic competition that has produced several 'good-legendary' international cricketers too. To add to that , just because Hazare couldn't take it to international level does not mean Jadeja can't do it. Jadeja has shown exactly that in the last 31 inns.

An avg: of almost 48 is top class by any means. Even if he avg:s  37 genuinely for the rest of his career with the bat,  that would be lot worthy because of him  already being a very good bowler. But he needs to be provided with regular chances for a start, not drop-pick formula that has always been adapted in his case.    

It's true that he deserves a longer run, but the problem is that many SENA pitches are not favourable to 2 spinners. And Indian think-thank seems to prefer Ashwin to Jaddu, although I think the latter is a better batsman and fielder. Hence, we will probably see Jaddu play only sporadically. He still needs to work on his bowling and batting in the interim. Even in Eng, he was outbowled by Vihari in the 2nd innings of the test

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9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

It's true that he deserves a longer run, but the problem is that many SENA pitches are not favourable to 2 spinners. And Indian think-thank seems to prefer Ashwin to Jaddu, although I think the latter is a better batsman and fielder. Hence, we will probably see Jaddu play only sporadically. He still needs to work on his bowling and batting in the interim. Even in Eng, he was outbowled by Vihari in the 2nd innings of the test

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8050/scorecard/1156957/saurashtra-vs-railways-elite-group-a-ranji-trophy-2018-19

 

just go thru this scorecard..... Jadeja plays for the same Saurashtra team that Pujara belongs to. While Pujara gets chances after chances at no:3 position despite having a 50+ avg:  in domestic,  Jadeja having same 50+ domestic avg: that too from the same team deserves a long run at least at no: 7 position at least as an all rounder, let alone as a pure batsman.This is where I feel Jadeja has been unfairly treated as of now.

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For Jaddu to become an automatic in test teams, we'd need Pant to become an automatic batting at #6. Because Jaddu is not a #6 batsman - he can be an effective #7 and give us the 5th bowling option, since Jaddu rarely gets massacred - even when he is not taking wickets, he keeps things tight and builds pressure. 

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5 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

For Jaddu to become an automatic in test teams, we'd need Pant to become an automatic batting at #6. Because Jaddu is not a #6 batsman - he can be an effective #7 and give us the 5th bowling option, since Jaddu rarely gets massacred - even when he is not taking wickets, he keeps things tight and builds pressure. 

but  his performance in the  match related with   the earlier posted scorecard indicates that  he indeed posses the temperament  to bat at 5 and 6  at least in domestic.No only that, he seems to posses the mental toughness to  survive 'back to the wall situations' too .

After all, isn't it by the same yardstick that we evaluate every Indian batsman, precisely if a domestic batsmen avg:s 50+ we take this  as a criteria for the batsman to be given long try in the middle order ? If that has been  the case with every succesful batsman so far , then why it has to be different with Jadeja??

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Just now, rtmohanlal said:

but  his performance in the  match related with   the earlier posted scorecard indicates that  he indeed posses the temperament  to bat at 5 and 6  at least in domestic.No only that, he seems to posses the mental toughness to  survive 'back to the wall situations' too .

After all, isn't it by the same yardstick that we evaluate every Indian batsman, precisely if a domestic batsmen avg:s 50+ we take this  as a criteria for the batsman to be given long try in the middle order ? If that has been  the case with every succesful batsman so far , then why it has to be different with Jadeja??

Yes, domestically he can be tried out at #6. But he hasnt shown the batting temperament to bat overseas at #6, so he cannot be an automatic until he shows that or can lockdown the #7 batting role due to Pant locking down #6. 


The problem with batting at #6, is basically that your #6 often has to be your 2nd opener, as the #6 will come in when the second new ball is taken in 20-25% of the cases, as the 4th wicket falling around the 80th over mark is common when the side is batting well.

When not batting well, ie, collapsing, #6 has to be in charge of shepherding the tail as well.

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9 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Yes, domestically he can be tried out at #6. But he hasnt shown the batting temperament to bat overseas at #6, so he cannot be an automatic until he shows that or can lockdown the #7 batting role due to Pant locking down #6. 


The problem with batting at #6, is basically that your #6 often has to be your 2nd opener, as the #6 will come in when the second new ball is taken in 20-25% of the cases, as the 4th wicket falling around the 80th over mark is common when the side is batting well.

When not batting well, ie, collapsing, #6 has to be in charge of shepherding the tail as well.

very true. Although Sir's avg is about the same as ben stokes, I don't think he is cut out as a second opener. I'd say that 7 or 8 are his best choices. as you noted, pant (or some other keeper) needs to be able to bat in top 6.

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8 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

but  his performance in the  match related with   the earlier posted scorecard indicates that  he indeed posses the temperament  to bat at 5 and 6  at least in domestic.No only that, he seems to posses the mental toughness to  survive 'back to the wall situations' too .

After all, isn't it by the same yardstick that we evaluate every Indian batsman, precisely if a domestic batsmen avg:s 50+ we take this  as a criteria for the batsman to be given long try in the middle order ? If that has been  the case with every succesful batsman so far , then why it has to be different with Jadeja??

 

7 hours ago, Vijy said:

very true. Although Sir's avg is about the same as ben stokes, I don't think he is cut out as a second opener. I'd say that 7 or 8 are his best choices. as you noted, pant (or some other keeper) needs to be able to bat in top 6.

but the problem is that he is not even given a permanent  stretch of matches to prove his credentials.

In the on going practice match itself, he was not even given a chance to bat.And the seam bowlers except Shami (even he was at best mediocre) was pathetic even against these set of nobodies which underlines the fact that there is no point in playing 4 seamers in AUS.This is because, to compliment Kuldeep & Bumrah (who it is widely assumed to be the 2 most effective bowlers in this series) in the same generally efficient levels as the other seamers , the other spin  bowliers &  Bhuvi(who can bat a bit too)  are enough.And they can together put some runs too, which the specialist seamers can't do.But yet it seems, Jadeja is going to be sidelined.

Edited by rtmohanlal
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Seeing the performances of our specialists in the on going test, Jadeja should feel lot more unfairly  treated. Proven failure Rohit  keeps on failing. Rahul still remains as a 'special talent' who can only provide those entertaining, sublime 30s & 40s at best , Vijay  yet to play a major part in the series etc etc. Poor guy despite avg:ing 50s in domestic, having 3 300s , avg:ing 50+ in last 2 years with bat, avg:ing <25 with the ball,emphatically scoring a back to the wall 86* & picking 7 wkts on a batting wkt  in ENG in his come back game is still not playing....  Rohit avg:s 50+ in domestic, so is Jadeja. And Jadeja is a  good over all bowler and fielder as well apart from being a left handed batsman.Yet Rohit gets chances after chances and Jadeja keeps on getting sidelined .What sort of logic is this???  Can't simply understand.

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20 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Playing the 6th batsman in overseas is more to have some sort of cushion against collapses like 40/4 or some sort of rescue acts when we are on 120/5 kind of scores..  chances of a bowling allrounder doing well in overseas in such difficult situations are very low 

Agreed, if the batsman is of the calibre of Laxman,S,Waugh, Chanderpaul etc etc, because then we can be assured that they will play high percentage of such knocks due to having mental toughness,temperament  & ability to rotate str: in the company of tail enders from that 6th position.Instead we are having a proven hack in Rohit  occupying that 6th spot. It can be guaranteed that Jadeja can perform atleast in the same levels as Rohit from this position. 

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2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

2 spinners for Australian series. Over that Jadeja batting at 6 in Australia. Suddenly he is better batsman than Vihari ?

Jadeja has a domestic record that  losses in nothing when compared to that of Vihari.It is only a conclusion  derived from a   prejudiced

mentality that  Jadeja  lacks the credentials required of a  top 6 batsman. His  huge success as a bowler doesn't help his cause either.

But the reality is that he plays as a front line batsman for his domestic team.  And  ever since he started  getting into his groove as a batsman , he avg:s 50+ in tests, in the last 2 years precisely.So this guy deserves his chances especially because every Rohit,Kartik,Dhawan,Rahul get chances after chances despite repeatedly proving to be far from adequate to be a permanent member of the 'TOP 6' of this team. More over Jadeja is a left hander too

Edited by rtmohanlal
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