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ravishingravi

Match is over

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Yup. I think this was bat first pitch. Variable bounce and pace on Day 1. I see no chance for India. 

 

Poor track if you think of it. India also should have restricted them to less than 220 at least on this track. 277 is already enough. 

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Odds are definitely stacking up against us at this point.  But it aint over just yet.  Team that gets a first innings lead will win the test.  Its 70-30 Aus, but we shouldn't just write off our team yet.  Yes, the batting hasn't really shown much to indicate they can come up with the quality to match an Aus 350 here.  

 

Let's not get that defeatist, pusillanimous inner Manjrekar take over completely.   

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Kohli has to step up big time and all the other guy should play around him. Best and easier way to win this is by batting once. That means pile up huge runs. Just blunt guys like pat cummins/Starc. Eventually they will not be able to sustain. 

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1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

We shall see. Aussies are still a rubbish team. And we have 7 Batsmen. We should bat well. Just have to make sure aus don't get more than 310 now.

Whom are these seven you speak of?

 

Because recent stats indicate the team consists of two. 

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23 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kohli has to step up big time and all the other guy should play around him. Best and easier way to win this is by batting once. That means pile up huge runs. Just blunt guys like pat cummins/Starc. Eventually they will not be able to sustain. 

Test cricket isn't rocket science.  Aus did well because their openers did well.  You need the openers to bat well to put up a proper score.  Our fate rests in the hands of KLPD Rahul and Old Man Vijay.  Its not looking good.  Let's hope if we go down, we go down fighting.  

 

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Odds are definitely stacking up against us at this point.  But it aint over just yet.  Team that gets a first innings lead will win the test.  Its 70-30 Aus, but we shouldn't just write off our team yet.  Yes, the batting hasn't really shown much to indicate they can come up with the quality to match an Aus 350 here.  

 

Let's not get that defeatist, pusillanimous inner Manjrekar take over completely.   

Its tough to admit but there is an inner Manjrekar in all of us. :sad_smile:

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But India somehow manage to win this, it will be an amazing effort. When you think about it, Aus pretty much tailor made a pitch to suit them, if you beat them here, they are not coming back.

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

There is no question of hindsight. Said it multiple times before the test started and after the toss, selection was a complete *up. 

You probably think Umesh shouldnt have been picked and I do too but Umesh has done well before in Australia. He is capable of bowling some good spells but he can be poor as well. Its just one of those decisions that didnt work out but cant be termed an outright blunder. Still there's a chance for him to redeem himself.

 

Picking Vihari was a no brainer as we need an extra bat and can also chip in with a few overs. Got a couple of wickets, so justified his selection so far. No harm in giving a promising rookie a chance to prove himself.

 

Jadeja couldnt have done a lot better than Vihari as a bowler. Spinners dont run through sides in Australia. Specialist bat is worth more than Jadeja who is a hit or miss type batsman.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, NareshK said:

You probably think Umesh shouldnt have been picked and I do too but Umesh has done well before in Australia. He is capable of bowling some good spells but he can be poor as well. Its just one of those decisions that didnt work out but cant be termed an outright blunder. Still there's a chance for him to redeem himself.

 

Picking Vihari was a no brainer as we need an extra bat and can also chip in with a few overs. Got a couple of wickets, so justified his selection so far. No harm in giving a promising rookie a chance to prove himself.

 

Jadeja couldnt have done a lot better than Vihari as a bowler. Spinners dont run through sides in Australia. Specialist bat is worth more than Jadeja who is a hit or miss type batsman.

 

 

 

You can argue hypotheticals till the cows come home.  But this track did not call for 4 quicks and zero front-line spinners.  Most tracks in Australia mean attritional long drawn out innings, especially with the Kookaburra.  You have to plan to bowl 90+ overs per innings minimum.  That's always hard to do with 4 quicks, especially if one of them is known to be unreliable.  You need a guy who can give you a big chunk of tight overs at one end.  

 

Claiming that Jadeja "couldn't have done better than Vihari" is an opinion, in my view, a wrong one.  Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.  

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59 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You can argue hypotheticals till the cows come home.  But this track did not call for 4 quicks and zero front-line spinners.  Most tracks in Australia mean attritional long drawn out innings, especially with the Kookaburra.  You have to plan to bowl 90+ overs per innings minimum.  That's always hard to do with 4 quicks, especially if one of them is known to be unreliable.  You need a guy who can give you a big chunk of tight overs at one end.  

 

Claiming that Jadeja "couldn't have done better than Vihari" is an opinion, in my view, a wrong one.  Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.  

How many times has Sir Jadeja avatar- hybrid of Warne and Murali run through international sides in overseas conditions?

 

He was our premier spinner circa 2013-2014  under Dhoni in Eng,Sa and Nzl  and sucked badly apart from that 50 and the 6 wicket haul in SA.

 

Ashwin and Jadeja are 2 sides to the same coin. When one replaces the other they start of with a bang and fizzle and then rinse and repeat.

 

 

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@sandeep I am going to give you the entire context and try to give you the entire ram kahani because you tend to start personal attacks :laugh:

 

I am on the same page with you now that Jadeja should have played instead of Umesh given how the pitch has played and turned out.

 

obviously based on the rumors how the pitch would play or the type of pitch that was in place-4 seamers was the way to go. And that 4th seamer should have been Bhuvi

 

Team management should not think like fans who obviously have only half the information obviously and play horses for courses. Playing Jadeja because you think he is the reincarnation of Warne and is your personal favorite was the wrong context. I personally think Jadeja has been a very good spin bowler for us and is more consistent than even Ashwin on helpful pitches overseas.

 

Anyways thinking that Jadeja would have had a 5wicket haul here and is the only differential between win and loss is dumb. Had Jadeja,Ashwin or Kuldeep taken 2 wickets here that would have been termed a decent performance.

 

Umesh was the only wrong call here. Had it been Bhuvi they would have got the benefit of doubt.

 

this goes for @rtmohanlal as well who seems to be a huge Jadeja fan

Edited by Global.Baba

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3 hours ago, NareshK said:

In hindsight, everyone is a great team selector.

Everybody knew it should have been Bhuvi for his batting to compensate for Ashwin's absence. Even Jadeja for Ashwin would have been good, knowing India's batting woes. We have Veejay who is struggling to get past single digits and KLR whose first innings performance is invariable a single digit. Pujara can grind, it all depends on Kohli and Rahane. As a fan, I can see how we are toast. Ashwin's 25 in the first test first innings and 70 runs paertnership with Pujara is worth in gold when you see the margin of victory was 31 runs. 

Edited by coffee_rules

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3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Everybody knew it should have been Bhuvi for his batting to compensate for Ashwin's absence. Even Jadeja for Ashwin would have been good, knowing India's batting woes. We have Veejay who is struggling to get past single digits and KLR whose first innings performance is invariable a single digit. Pujara can grind, it all depends on Kohli and Rahane. As a fan, I can see how we are toast.

Australia’s strength is their bowling and when we let their weakness which is their batting  get away to a decent target, So we are starting on the back foot. 

 

Same case with us. Our batting is the problem.

 

I don’t know where these guys are getting the bravado from.

 

Aussies get to 350 it is an uphill task for us

Edited by Global.Baba

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2 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Australia’s strength is their bowling and when we let their weakness get away to a decent target, So we are starting on the back foot. 

 

Same case with us. Our batting is the problem.

 

I don’t know where these guys are getting the bravado from.

 

Aussies get to 350 it is an uphill task for us

Toss is Boss. We won the toss in the first test and even 250 was good enough on par. As a captian, I would select a team that can deal with both possibilities. Win Toss, we should have bowlers so we can put pressure on their second innings. Lose toss, we should be able to match their batting with ours, so we go with lesser bowlers who can also bat. The latter works for both cases.

Edited by coffee_rules

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Game is over. Only delusional blind Indian supporters would believe we have a chance.

 

We have seen this scenario ad nauseum play out 9/10 times. India loses this match from this position.

 

 

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Well I have been watching cricket in Australia for over two decades now. This is a shocker of pitch. 

 

The pitch in Perth does tend to break up from third day onwards. But variable bounce on day 1 ? The grass covering essentially keeps the surface together. But moments the grass begins to come off, the pitch will start to crack. 

 

The delivery from Bumrah to Payne was as bad as it gets. I have a feeling there is some surprise result possible if match is abandoned in second innings if considered dangerous. 

 

The only chance India have is lead of 100 in first innings. 

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34 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

@sandeep I am going to give you the entire context and try to give you the entire ram kahani because you tend to start personal attacks :laugh:

 

I am on the same page with you now that Jadeja should have played instead of Umesh given how the pitch has played and turned out.

 

obviously based on the rumors how the pitch would play or the type of pitch that was in place-4 seamers was the way to go. And that 4th seamer should have been Bhuvi

 

Team management should not think like fans who obviously have only half the information obviously and play horses for courses. Playing Jadeja because you think he is the reincarnation of Warne and is your personal favorite was the wrong context. I personally think Jadeja has been a very good spin bowler for us and is more consistent than even Ashwin on helpful pitches overseas.

 

Anyways thinking that Jadeja would have had a 5wicket haul here and is the only differential between win and loss is dumb. Had Jadeja,Ashwin or Kuldeep taken 2 wickets here that would have been termed a decent performance.

 

Umesh was the only wrong call here. Had it been Bhuvi they would have got the benefit of doubt.

 

this goes for @rtmohanlal as well who seems to be a huge Jadeja fan

You are repeatedly demonstrating your utter lack of understanding of how test match bowling works.  Let me break it down for you and I will try to avoid big words so you don't get too confused or think its a personal attack. 

 

Test match bowling is all out maintaining pressure.  You may have heard or read that bowlers hunt in pairs, but its more than just that.  If you are able to create and sustain pressure as a bowling unit, wickets usually come as a result.  Let's just take day 1 as an example - Vihari did much better than expected, even picked up 2 wickets, and could have another one.  Any reasonable cricket fan would accept that Vihari's wickets had an element of luck involved.  And he still went at what? 3.8 per over?  Having Jaddu instead, I would expect him to bowl at least 20 overs yesterday, and at closer to 2 RPO than 4.  That would have meant that we would have created and sustained pressure better than we did yesterday.  And not just that, the pace bowlers would have had more of a cushion in terms of rest, and not having to rush through their overs, since Jadeja bowls an over in usually under 2 minutes.  Not only would that mean that Aus wouldn't have 277 on the board, we could have well had a few more wickets.  And that's just the beginning.  Given the nature of the perth wicket, I'm asserting that Jadeja would have been quite effective on D3 & D4.  Now I know you don't rate Jadeja highly, and even questioned how such a "darter" became #1 test bowler, but that's just your ignorance talking.  Jaddu is a seriously skilled and smart bowler.  He is able to use variations in pace and bounce to very good effect, and he's brilliant at coming up with dismissal traps, even for lefties.  Now this doesn't mean that he's my "favorite" or I think he's a re-incarnation of Warne.  Its just that I believe that he would increased our chances of winning.  I'm sure you're aware of my pro-Bhuvi bias, but in spite of that, I was hoping to see Jaddu in the lineup, even in a 6-1-4 XI.  

 

And regardless of how up and down this pitch turned out to be, even if you take that variability out of the equation, given the weather forecast and heat, it was a safe assumption that the track will dry out.  It didn't need a genius to recognize the importance of having a front-line spinner in your bowling attack, one that can reliably give you a chunk of tight overs.  That acts as a force-multiplier for the rest of the attack.  Now luckily, Vihari did a reasonable job for us yesterday, and even got a couple of wickets.  But that's not enough.  And if the pitch was expected to be such a pace-friendly mamba, then you really didn't need that 4th pacer against this fragile Aus batting unit.  Sacrificing Jadeja's control, AND his batting to gamble on Umesh as the 4th bowler is simply not justifiable.  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You are repeatedly demonstrating your utter lack of understanding of how test match bowling works.  Let me break it down for you and I will try to avoid big words so you don't get too confused or think its a personal attack. 

 

Test match bowling is all out maintaining pressure.  You may have heard or read that bowlers hunt in pairs, but its more than just that.  If you are able to create and sustain pressure as a bowling unit, wickets usually come as a result.  Let's just take day 1 as an example - Vihari did much better than expected, even picked up 2 wickets, and could have another one.  Any reasonable cricket fan would accept that Vihari's wickets had an element of luck involved.  And he still went at what? 3.8 per over?  Having Jaddu instead, I would expect him to bowl at least 20 overs yesterday, and at closer to 2 RPO than 4.  That would have meant that we would have created and sustained pressure better than we did yesterday.  And not just that, the pace bowlers would have had more of a cushion in terms of rest, and not having to rush through their overs, since Jadeja bowls an over in usually under 2 minutes.  Not only would that mean that Aus wouldn't have 277 on the board, we could have well had a few more wickets.  And that's just the beginning.  Given the nature of the perth wicket, I'm asserting that Jadeja would have been quite effective on D3 & D4.  Now I know you don't rate Jadeja highly, and even questioned how such a "darter" became #1 test bowler, but that's just your ignorance talking.  Jaddu is a seriously skilled and smart bowler.  He is able to use variations in pace and bounce to very good effect, and he's brilliant at coming up with dismissal traps, even for lefties.  Now this doesn't mean that he's my "favorite" or I think he's a re-incarnation of Warne.  Its just that I believe that he would increased our chances of winning.  I'm sure you're aware of my pro-Bhuvi bias, but in spite of that, I was hoping to see Jaddu in the lineup, even in a 6-1-4 XI.  

 

And regardless of how up and down this pitch turned out to be, even if you take that variability out of the equation, given the weather forecast and heat, it was a safe assumption that the track will dry out.  It didn't need a genius to recognize the importance of having a front-line spinner in your bowling attack, one that can reliably give you a chunk of tight overs.  That acts as a force-multiplier for the rest of the attack.  Now luckily, Vihari did a reasonable job for us yesterday, and even got a couple of wickets.  But that's not enough.  And if the pitch was expected to be such a pace-friendly mamba, then you really didn't need that 4th pacer against this fragile Aus batting unit.  Sacrificing Jadeja's control, AND his batting to gamble on Umesh as the 4th bowler is simply not justifiable.  

 

 

Bunch of pointless fluff that has nothing to do with the topic

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44 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

Game is over. Only delusional blind Indian supporters would believe we have a chance.

 

We have seen this scenario ad nauseum play out 9/10 times. India loses this match from this position.

 

 

Agreed

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But I have to say. India missed a trick by not playing Kuldeep. Apart from Marsh, none of the other batters would have picked him. Not to mention the bounce he would have gotten. 

 

I might be stretching it here. But given their side of left handlers, he could have well run through them. 

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6 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Lot of icf experts said the same on day 1 of first test when we opted to bat and were 40-4.

 

 

Have faith.  We haven’t even batted yet once. Ridiculous to write them off.

You cant write anybody off. But you cant overlook variable bounce on Day 1 either. 

 

India has to attack. There is no chance of them surviving here. Maybe score at 5 plus ro and disturb the bowlers length. 

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1 hour ago, cowboysfan said:

terrible pitch.if you play in extreme weather at least have a track which lasts 4 days.there should be a ICc  inquiry on this one.

Weather will be good for next three days. Only day 1 was hot. Pitch won't break much dur to grass covering and lack of sun.

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2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

We are not out of this game yet.  Call me delusional, but if Finch can score 50 here, we can bat and get to 300 as well.  Not saying it will happen, but there's a chance.

Perth becomes bowling friendly on 2nd and 3rd day but umeedh pe duniya kaayam hai. You are not the only fan here. Everyone wants India to win but some realism helps.

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3 minutes ago, beetle said:

We will do fine.

Kohli is due for a big one.

Our top order will do well.

Do you see the bounce. This is ideal for Starc/Cummins to run through our tail+ Vihari and Pant .

 

Whatever the top 5 get is what we get. Our openers are hopeless.

 

So it is just Kohli,Rahane and Pujara 

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3 minutes ago, beetle said:

We will do fine.

Kohli is due for a big one.

Our top order will do well.

Garbage. Just wait and see how this pans out. Foolish into believing you have not ever seen Indian cricket collapse as always overseas.

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1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

Do you see the bounce. This is ideal for Starc/Cummins to run through our tail+ Vihari and Pant .

 

Whatever the top 5 get is what we get. Our openers are hopeless.

 

So it is just Kohli,Rahane and Pujara 

Kohli will get bashed by Lyon or Cummins.

 

Rahane and Puj is not enough to withstand the might of Australia.

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