Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) Disclaimer: This is just an analysis on test performance outside India, and nothing to do with LOIs A very interesting stat regarding batting averages in Wins and Loss/Draws away: KOHLI: Wins avg: 43.5 Loss/Draws avg: 48.7 Difference: + 5.2 PUJARA: Wins avg: 56.3 Loss/Draws avg: 28.8 Difference: - 27.5 RAHANE: Wins avg: 50.8 Loss/Draws avg: 43.6 Difference: - 7.1 In cricket, if you are a match winner you will definitely expect that a player’s average in Wins will be higher than in Draws/Losses. But in case of Kohli it is the opposite as he is well off by additional 5.2 average when India losses or draws. Understandably Pujara has very high difference and Rahane has significant difference as well. Also, who among them has the lowest average in wins, surprise … Kohli again. Also, a small analysis of Kohli’s centuries away from India: Away Centuries – 14 Resulting in Loss – 7 Resulting in Draws - 4 Resulting in Wins – 3 (one each against WI, SL & Eng) When we compare to Pujara and Rahane who have been having dropping debates in ICF: PUJARA Away Centuries – 6 Resulting in Loss – 1 Resulting in Draws – 1 Resulting in Wins – 4 (1 against Aus and 3 against SL) RAHANE Away Centuries – 6 Resulting in Loss – 0 Resulting in Draws – 3 Resulting in Wins – 3 (1 against Eng and 2 against SL) So, it can be seen that Kohli’s big runs away have not been match winning performances for India. He seems to be just on par or even slightly less that even Pujara and Rahane in terms of match winning ability. What use are those big centuries if they are not resulting in wins? And to top it off he is losing even more matches with his selections/captaincy than with the bat away. Let me know your thoughts! Edited December 18, 2018 by Forever Indian SrinjayDutta, raki05, Stan AF and 2 others 2 2 1 Link to comment
Global.Baba Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Rahane’s innings are overrated as well. When it was really time to make a difference he craps his pants. Rahane at best is a supporting act and that’s not what we need after years of investment on your 2nd or 3rd best bat UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Global.Baba said: Rahane’s innings are overrated as well. When it was really time to make a difference he craps his pants. Rahane at best is a supporting act and that’s not what we need after years of investment on your 2nd or 3rd best bat My point is whenever Kohli's test captaincy is discussed his fans/supporters point that he wins matches with his batting and leading by example. But the stats show that his big runs away have not been more match winning than others whose place are under debate and his captaincy is actually losing us more. raki05, UrmiSinhaRay, Stan AF and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment
Pollack Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 He always fall short of playing a match defining innings. But it's somehow ignored. We need to judge Kohli by his standards. Not comparing him to others. These stats are intriguing though. raki05 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) Another very interesting stat regarding batting averages in Wins and Loss/Draws away: KOHLI: Wins avg: 43.5 Loss/Draws avg: 48.7 Difference: + 5.2 PUJARA: Wins avg: 56.3 Loss/Draws avg: 28.8 Difference: - 27.5 RAHANE: Wins avg: 50.8 Loss/Draws avg: 43.6 Difference: - 7.1 In cricket, if you are a match winner you will definitely expect that a player’s average in Wins will be higher than in Draws/Losses. But in case of Kohli it is the opposite as he is well off by additional 5.2 average in India losses or draws. Understandably Pujara has very high difference and Rahane has significant difference as well. Also, who among them has the lowest average in wins, surprise … Kohli again. Edited December 18, 2018 by Forever Indian UrmiSinhaRay and raki05 1 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, MultiB48 said: 1st team innings 2011-2018 74 73 1 4482 243 62.25 7625 58.78 20 8 4 500 11 2nd team innings 2011-2018 58 55 7 2026 141 42.20 3657 55.40 5 11 3 218 8 his 2nd inning stats arent that great , may be needs to score more runs in 2nd inngs . 28 minutes ago, MultiB48 said: this aint t20 or odi that a century will result in a victory.To ensure victory you will probably need a 200. Just now, Forever Indian said: Another very interesting stat regarding batting averages in Wins and Loss/Draws away: KOHLI: Wins avg: 43.5 Loss/Draws avg: 48.7 Difference: + 5.2 PUJARA: Wins avg: 56.3 Loss/Draws avg: 28.8 Difference: - 27.5 RAHANE: Wins avg: 50.8 Loss/Draws avg: 43.6 Difference: - 7.1 In cricket, if you are a match winner you will definitely expect that a player’s average in Wins will be higher than in Draws/Losses. But in case of Kohli it is the opposite as he is well of additional 5.2 average when India losses or draws. Understandably Pujara has very high difference and Rahane has significant difference as well. Also, who among them has the lowest average in wins, surprise … Kohli again. What do you say for this? Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Pollack said: He always fall short of playing a match defining innings. But it's somehow ignored. We need to judge Kohli by his standards. Not comparing him to others. These stats are intriguing though. Updated stats on average as well added. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said: Havent checked all those stats in details and i am not denying the fact that we just havent won many tests away from home ,but what was the difference between pujara's 100 at adelaide and kohli's at perth ? the main difference was that other players performed better and pujara also contributed in the 2nd inng .There is just no way one could ensure a victory through a 1st inng century in a test unless the pitch is unplayable. I am not just talking about centuries, the new stats I quoted show that Kohli has the lowest batting average amongst the three when India wins and that too by a significant difference. Not only that, Kohli's average actually improves by 5 runs in draws/losses for India which is very strange for someone who is supposed to be a match winner. Link to comment
R!TTER Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Pollack said: He always fall short of playing a match defining innings. But it's somehow ignored. We need to judge Kohli by his standards. Not comparing him to others. These stats are intriguing though. Actually only a small base of non partisan fans will not see the significance of these stats, Kohli is not a master chaser in tests, in fact he's really poor at chasing. Having said that he does set up games more than any other batsman in the recent past, his 4th innings stats are also slightly inflated since I don't recall a match winning/changing 100 or 50 from him in a tough chase yet. Edited December 18, 2018 by R!TTER raki05 1 Link to comment
ShoonyaSifar Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 All the 100s Kohli hit on 2014 tour, or in SA and Eng this year were such useless knocks. Is is that what you are trying to say? manu4411 1 Link to comment
dial_100 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Forever Indian said: Disclaimer: This is just an analysis on test performance outside India, and nothing to do with LOIs A very interesting stat regarding batting averages in Wins and Loss/Draws away: KOHLI: Wins avg: 43.5 Loss/Draws avg: 48.7 Difference: + 5.2 PUJARA: Wins avg: 56.3 Loss/Draws avg: 28.8 Difference: - 27.5 RAHANE: Wins avg: 50.8 Loss/Draws avg: 43.6 Difference: - 7.1 In cricket, if you are a match winner you will definitely expect that a player’s average in Wins will be higher than in Draws/Losses. But in case of Kohli it is the opposite as he is well off by additional 5.2 average when India losses or draws. Understandably Pujara has very high difference and Rahane has significant difference as well. Also, who among them has the lowest average in wins, surprise … Kohli again. Also, a small analysis of Kohli’s centuries away from India: Away Centuries – 14 Resulting in Loss – 7 Resulting in Draws - 4 Resulting in Wins – 3 (one each against WI, SL & Eng) When we compare to Pujara and Rahane who have been having dropping debates in ICF: PUJARA Away Centuries – 6 Resulting in Loss – 1 Resulting in Draws – 1 Resulting in Wins – 4 (1 against Aus and 3 against SL) RAHANE Away Centuries – 6 Resulting in Loss – 0 Resulting in Draws – 3 Resulting in Wins – 3 (1 against Eng and 2 against SL) So, it can be seen that Kohli’s big runs away have not been match winning performances for India. He seems to be just on par or even slightly less that even Pujara and Rahane in terms of match winning ability. What use are those big centuries if they are not resulting in wins? And to top it off he is losing even more matches with his selections/captaincy than with the bat away. Let me know your thoughts! Can we have award for this analysis please.? Ok sorry i couldnt stop reacting. In a losing cause, only those could have higher averages who fight till end. Those who have low averages in the losing causes clearly indicate that they have caved in. If you wanna see reasons of a loss you have to see who have performed bad in losing causes. Averages cannot tell your the real story of pitches, batting order, batting partner, conditions and match situations. manu4411 and UrmiSinhaRay 1 1 Link to comment
raki05 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said: All the 100s Kohli hit on 2014 tour, or in SA and Eng this year were such useless knocks. Is is that what you are trying to say? Exactly that is what we want to say.he is always MIA when he really needs to show his class it happened twice in eng when we were touching distance from victory. The player of his calibre should have seen us through. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
R!TTER Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said: All the 100s Kohli hit on 2014 tour, or in SA and Eng this year were such useless knocks. Is is that what you are trying to say? If you factor in his captaincy, yeah they were useless because he scored more own goals than he scored runs for the team. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Jamadagni Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 It only shows Pujara and Rahane raked up centuries against poor SL. Pujara 3's vs SL and Rahane's 2 vs SL. By the way, when did Pujara and Rahane scored centuries in SL? UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, dial_100 said: Can we have award for this analysis please.? Ok sorry i couldnt stop reacting. In a losing cause, only those could have higher averages who fight till end. Those who have low averages in the losing causes clearly indicate that they have caved in. If you wanna see reasons of a loss you have to see who have performed bad in losing causes. Averages cannot tell your the real story of pitches, batting order, batting partner, conditions and match situations. So, all those scoring match winning big runs like Williamson did in his series win in UAE, Smith in SA and over the world, Dravid in our overseas wins are all useless and those who pad up their runs in draws and losses are great players? Wonderful! UrmiSinhaRay 2 Link to comment
Jamadagni Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 The only two wins in SA and England this year had Kohli's major contribution. But Kohli didn't perform just in those wins but in other matches which we lost too. Hence higher average in losses. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jamadagni said: It only shows Pujara and Rahane raked up centuries against poor SL. Pujara 3's vs SL and Rahane's 2 vs SL. By the way, when did Pujara and Rahane scored centuries in SL? What about Kohli then? A century each against same SL and WI and only one against Eng. Also, look at the averages of them in wins and losses/draws, that tells the story. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Jamadagni Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Forever Indian said: What about Kohli then? A century each against same SL and WI and only one against Eng. Also, look at the averages of them in wins and losses/draws, that tells the story. What do you want to prove? Kohli's runs are imactless? Scoring 120 in the last test was imactless? 149 in the first test in England imactless? 150 in the second test vs SA early this year imactless? All those hundreds were scored in the 1st/2nd innings which are more likely to shape up the outcome of the matches rather than 3rd/4th innings runs. Link to comment
CSK Fan Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Lol i habe seen the same type of analysis made by pak fans to put down sachin. When a champion player scores against big teams mote frequently a lot might still cause defeat. You cannot compare with other players like inzamam or rahne who scores only against weaker teams so of course their impact will show more Link to comment
R!TTER Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Jamadagni said: The only two wins in SA and England this year had Kohli's major contribution. But Kohli didn't perform just in those wins but in other matches which we lost too. Hence higher average in losses. Do we count the 100 in the last innings vs NZ where Kohli dropped a Bmac sitter ensuring we didn't draw the series or his 50 in the previous game? He tried to pull Wagner, due to his ego, when he was angling the ball away from him consistently from over the wicket. That first game also we had a fair chance at chasing the total if Kohli didn't play that stroke. Quote 60.3 is this the break New Zealand needed? Completely against the run of play. So not a wicket-taking delivery. This is short, this is wide, Kohli makes the mistake of pulling instead of cutting. The ball doesn't quite come on, and by the time it does, it is on its way down. Kohli gets a bottom edge. That is dying in between keeper and slip, but Watling takes it by his toes 222/3 http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/667633/scorecard/667651/new-zealand-vs-india-1st-test-india-tour-of-new-zealand-2013-14 Edited December 18, 2018 by R!TTER Link to comment
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