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What is Pakistan doing right in overseas tests that India is not?


Austin 3:!6

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Surely on paper likes of Pujara, Kohli, Rahane etc are better than Imam Ul Haq, Shan Masood or Asad Shafiq. Also our bowling is equally good if not superior. So there is no doubt India is a better test team. But we struggle to beat SA or Eng in their home yet poyzz drawn the test series in Eng and on course of winning the 1st test in SA. We lost the Lords test in 3 days which Poyzz won couple of months ago. I dont understand this at all.

 

So what is India doing wrong? Are we overestimating our team or is the team management to be blamed for or something else?

 

Discuss.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

 

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A) 3 of the key players are missing from the SAF team.  DeVillers, Ngidi and Philander.   All these players played against us and destroyed us. B)  Some experts might suggest that we played rohit instead of rahane, which led to the debacle. But rahane was in horrible form that time.  So, what would you do ?  C) We batted last in the first two tests in SAF. Whereas Pak is batting first. 

Edited by Frustrated
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2 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

A) 3 of the key players are missing from the SAF team.  DeVillers, Ngidi and Philander.   All these players played against us and destroyed us.         

C) We batted last in the first two matches.  Whereas Pak is batting first. 

 

Valid points.

Edited by express bowling
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The captain and the coach. The players seem intimidated by the captain.

No strategy, planning in place towards an approach to the game.

Wrong team composition. The moment they got Mayank in, the scoring pattern changed.

Captain needs to weed out older players, and favourite players and play for a win, rather than money.

Need to have gumption to try out players from domestic circuit who are performing.

Lets face it, our batsmen are home ground bullies.

 

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the positions where these 2 teams are in the rankings reflects the contexts too.Winning tosses , Presence of key players all plays  huge parts.For instance, if we win the toss in the Sydney test, I think we can win it and there by the series. So all we need to do is  make the selections right and hope for the better w.r.t  luck.

Edited by rtmohanlal
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There is one and only one reason.

 

The opening pair has been sucking donkey balls for a long time.

 

Rahul and Vijay have been an unmitigated disaster . They should have been removed long time back. Both Aggarwal and Vihari are step in the right direction. Indian batting only thrives if opening pair does well.

 

Partial reason is playing a so called all rounder. They do jack for the team.

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3 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

We would have won the test series in South Africa if ABD wasn't playing. We were firmly on top the first two tests and ABD took the game away from us. And also not to forget as mentioned already in this thread, no philander or ngidi.

You are missing the point. You can never control what others do in sports. You need to do your part correctly.

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3 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

We would have won the test series in South Africa if ABD wasn't playing. We were firmly on top the first two tests and ABD took the game away from us. And also not to forget as mentioned already in this thread, no philander or ngidi.

losing toss too were vital in both ENG and SAF

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2 minutes ago, JourneyMan said:

We claim that our bowling unit is better but their bowlers have always got more out of overseas pitches than ours have. 

They aren't scoring tons of runs, but they manage to bowl out home sides much quicker than we do. 

yes very valid point too.... what ever it be the other factors, their seam bowling combined is a level above  Indian bowling  especially abroad.For instance not long before , they had ,Wahab,Junaid,Imran,Rahat ali etc in the team. But once they realized they were not up to the mark they put their faith in Abbas,Hasan Ali  & Shaheen Aridi. Here we are on and on with mediocre Umesh & Ishant. 

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Can I go with "All of the above". Yes we are overestimating our team. Our batting is not as good as the team which had the fab 4. It also had Sehwag to give us a good start. Our bowling has certainly improved. That's why you see more results when India plays no draws no more. But apart from Pujara, no one in our team can bat out a draw with "intent" being the focus of our team. Our previous batsmen played pace bowling well but dominated spin in any kind of wickets. Our current lot cant play spin. Its a torture watching Rahane struggling against spin. Its not just him. Only Pujara is comfortable against spin because he used his feet. That is real intent not scoring over 4 RPO. Kohli is kohli but he doesnt come down the track.

 

Our bowling has improved mainly because of Bumrah. Ishant 2.0 won't be 2.0 without Bumrah. Shami is good but can go for runs. His length is short so can be negated. Ashwin is a spin track bully. I have to admit this even though I like him. Lyon and Moeen Ali have bowled better than him when it mattered the most in mostly seamer friendly pitches.

 

The other thing is captaincy and team management in general and I'm not convinced they have the team interests at top priority. TM likes the Sharmas even though they have performed poorly. TM likes Vijay and Rahul who have the same super agent as kaptaan kohli. I wonder why Ishant gets the new ball first up. Maybe Kohli-Sharma yaari-yaari :facepalm:. Bumrah should get the new ball first up. In the second innings in Perth, there was wind blowing from one side. That side should be given to Bumrah. Your best bowler should have it. Rather it was given to Sharma and the result? They ended up stitching 50 runs for the first wicket adding to the 100 runs in the first innings.

 

Pakistan will be Pakistan. They can defend a 175 target in the 4th innings but cannot be trusted to chase the same total. And their bowling can bowl sides out. Its not just seamers they have variety like Yasir Shah. Their bowling attack knows how to pick wickets and they stick to their plans which are simple.

 

No need for Ashwin's carrom ball to get them out. How many have seen Ashwin's carrom ball. Even I can see it coming. World class batsmen are no strangers to changeups. And this is test cricket. Ashwin should stick to using it in the LOIs. When I see a carrom ball, I know Ashwin is getting desperate and is lacking in discipline. He doesnt have the perseverance of a Lyon/Ali/Yasir to bowl the same delivery over and over consistently on an attacking line and length and the vary the revvs on the ball, flight, drift, loop, and speed. He has the ability but at this stage in his career he should adjust to foreign conditions. And I dont believe Jaddu will be any better. Kuldeep I have some hope.

Edited by Real McCoy
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49 minutes ago, JourneyMan said:

We claim that our bowling unit is better but their bowlers have always got more out of overseas pitches than ours have. 

They aren't scoring tons of runs, but they manage to bowl out home sides much quicker than we do. 

Our bowling is still better and the reason I say that is because, out of 10 wickets, 4 wickets were taken by Shaheen Afridi. He played alongside Mavi and Nagarkotti in the U19 tourney. Both our U19 bowlers were comfortably better and faster than him.

 

However, Pakistan had the balls of playing Shaheen, whereas its going to take a good 2 yrs for either of the bowlers to play for India. By that time, possibly they would have lost focus or lost pace. The right team composition is not there.

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