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Current Indian side vs this Indian side from the 00s in a 5 match test series?

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2000s team will win but what that team lacked was good seamers other than Zak. But with the batting they had, they could post a big total and Zak and Kumble would be good enough to put pressure. But if batting fails, they dont have the bowling to bail the side out of trouble.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

2000s team will win but what that team lacked was good seamers other than Zak. But with the batting they had, they could post a big total and Zak and Kumble would be good enough to put pressure. But if batting fails, they dont have the bowling to bail the side out of trouble.

 

 

It is incredible how Zak had no support at all - Sreesanth, Irfan, RP Singh were all good in spurts here and there but overall he was India's only hope outside Asia.

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On paper, the 2000 Indian team must thrash the current team in India.

 

But in a real fight, I think our current team will win or atleast the run that team close.

 

Current Indian spinners know how to use the SG ball. So there won't be a Murali situation.

 

Plus the whole team is clutch as hell in India.

 

2000 Indian team were never this dominating at home in the last decade.

 

Bumrah-Shami-Ashwin-Jaddu-Kuldeep is an insanely relentless attack to face at home.

 

It won't be easy even for the Fab 4 as there won't be any weaklings to target.

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2000s team comfortably as they have only one weakness (2nd pacer). The current team doesn't have a settled opening pair, it has Rahane who can't bat in India and a lead spinner (i.e. Ashwin) who'd be taken to cleaners by the Fab 4 as well as Ganguly/Gambhir.

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36 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

2000s team will win but what that team lacked was good seamers other than Zak. But with the batting they had, they could post a big total and Zak and Kumble would be good enough to put pressure. But if batting fails, they dont have the bowling to bail the side out of trouble.

 

 

So we're forgetting the times when we outbowled the opposition, even when batting failed? If you're going by that argument then how would this side do if the bowling fails, which it will against our best ever batting lineup?

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India was very dominant at home even in the 00s - that team beat McGrath, Ponting, Gilchrist and Hayden 2-1; this team beat a much weaker Aus team 2-1...stats will show 2-1 for both teams so you could argue statistically both the Indian teams were equally dominant in their respective series but once you factor in strength of opposition, it's a no-contest.

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3 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

India was very dominant at home even in the 00s - that team beat McGrath, Ponting, Gilchrist and Hayden 2-1; this team beat a much weaker Aus team 2-1...stats will show 2-1 for both teams so you could argue statistically both the Indian teams were equally dominant in their respective series but once you factor in strength of opposition, it's a no-contest.

but that team was also beated at home few times

Aus beated them in 2004

Pak drew a test from nowere in mohali n then beat us in banglore.....that series was 1-1

Eng beat us in 2006 i think in wakhade , 2001....they did well to drew last 2 test 

SA also gave a thrashing in one of test i think almost all the series they played us at home 

NZ use to draw against us at home 

 

This team is pretty much whitewashing opp and if not that .....we are winning most test in the series

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The 2017 Aus 2-1 win came when our team was tired and drained as hell after a long home season and one of our spinners injured.  Kuldeep played only 1 test in that test. Opposition had spent a month in Dubai preparing to play spin and they tackled us well. Plus O Keefe happened.

 

The stuff this team did in Bangalore 2017 was crazy amazing. It was a win powered through SHEER WILL POWER where even Rahane fought tooth and nail against great spin bowling on a tough pitch.

 

Of course that was NOTHING compared to Kolkata 2001 heroics (nothing ever will be) but this team will never get to a situation where its 8 down against Aus at home and it needs a VVS heroics to save them.

 

If THAT bunch of Aussie bowlers can get us 8 down in India and almost win the test, imagine what our 5 bowler attack could do to them on a good day.

Edited by sensible-indian

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Man to Man if u see

 

Will consider in good form 

 

  • GG vs Vijay (both were very good at their peeks at home specially)
  • Sehwag vs Rahul (sehwag at this point)
  • Dravid vs Puj (not much to choose)
  • Kohli vs Sachin (not much to choose)
  • Laxman vs rahane (at home laxman wins hands down)
  • Dhoni vs Pant (pant is to young in his career as of now, dhoni was mature due the age)
  • Kumble vs Ashwin (kumble as a bowler was a lil better but ashwin cover with his batting)
  • Bhajji vs Jadeja ( hmmm...not much to choose jadeja is very underrrated at home )
  • Zak vs Shami ( not much to choose)
  • Ishant vs Umesh ( umesh has advantage due to reverse swing )
  • Ganguly vs kuldeep/rohit/pandya ( ganguly wasnt to gr8 in test , became better only after hie comeback)

 

I have not considered bumrah as he is yet to play at home , he ll be lethal for sure and will give present side a huge edge

Fitness n ground fielding gives current side an edge

Catching the old side

Part time bowling old side and they have sehwag n sachin and even ganguly

Tactically that side had more sound brains

 

Approach - i like this sides approach more as they are aggressive and more focussed on winning 

 

 

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Not a few times just one in 2004, series wins that is. It was brought forth because that snake Manohar conspired against the home side to dish us a green top at Nagpur, we also never fielded a full strength team that series. Did I mention their bowling lineup? There's no one comparable to that from Aus right now, Lyon's inflated record against this lineup notwithstanding.

 

Pak is a different beast altogether, that team also had their 3 best test bats & an in form Afridi. Playing Pak is like SA vs Aus, very little difference due to conditions or in fact the state of the teams.

 

England 2006, we dropped 12 catches - yes at least 12 in that game & batted last on the worst pitch in India for 4th innings. This team wouldn't last 50 overs on that track.

 

SA also had a rampaging Steyn & their best batting lineups ever, but we'll ignore that.

 

The people hyping this team somehow easily forget the teams we played back then were ranked way above us, what's our ranking now?

Edited by R!TTER

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1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

1) Gambhir

2) Sehwag

3) Dravid

4) Tendulkar

5) Ganguly

6) Laxman

7) Dhoni

8) Harbhajan

9) Kumble

10)Zaheer

11)Ishant (it was him or Sreesanth/RP Singh or someone; no choice)

 

5 match series, all in India.

Also M not sure if We can have gambhir ganguly in same side 

By the time gambhir was permanent in test side ganguly was in his last 1-2 yrs of retirement 

 

It shud be either aakash chopra/sanjay bangar/ jaffer 

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25 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

but that team was also beated at home few times

Aus beated them in 2004

Pak drew a test from nowere in mohali n then beat us in banglore.....that series was 1-1

Eng beat us in 2006 i think in wakhade , 2001....they did well to drew last 2 test 

SA also gave a thrashing in one of test i think almost all the series they played us at home 

NZ use to draw against us at home 

 

This team is pretty much whitewashing opp and if not that .....we are winning most test in the series

How many series did we lose? From memory, just the one to an ATG side where we didn't have SRT in the first 2 tests and rushed him back in the last 2 tests. 

 

What SA series? We lost one series to them in 00 pre Ganguly IIRC? We lost a test by an innings in 2010-2011 vs a rampaging Steyn and won the next by a similar margin to make it 1-1. We were incredible at home; we just faced stronger teams. As for Pakistan, I remember that Bangalore test - we lost 9 wickets in the last session IIRC to lose it stupidly. Still, that was a very strong Pak line-up. Current Pak side has aam bechnay wala Sarfaraz as kaptaan.

 

If we talk about away series - we also drew in RSA 1-1, Aus 1-2 in 08 and 1-1 in 03-04, won in Pak in 04 and in NZ in 09. West Indies in 06 and England in 07; that was a very strong Indian side for those 5-6 years.

Edited by Dil Dil India

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5 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

How many series did we lose? From memory, just the one to an ATG side where we didn't have SRT in the first 2 tests and rushed him back in the last 2 tests. 

 

What SA series? We lost one series to them in 00 pre Ganguly IIRC? We lost a test by an innings in 2010-2011 vs a rampaging Steyn and won the next by a similar margin to make it 1-1. We were incredible at home; we just faced stronger teams. As for Pakistan, I remember that Bangalore test - we lost 9 wickets in the last session IIRC to lose it stupidly. Still, that was a very strong Pak line-up. Current Pak side has aam bechnay wala Sarfaraz as kaptaan.

 

If we talk about away series - we also drew in RSA 1-1, Aus 1-2 in 08 and 1-1 in 03-04, won in Pak in 04 and in NZ in 09. West Indies in 06 and England in 07; that was a very strong Indian side for those 5-6 years.

I knw we only lost one series against Aus in 2004 

I talking 1 of test matches in the series , this team is hardly even loosing that . Apart from that pune test against Aus.....this team is not loosing even that one test in the series 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I knw we only lost one series against Aus in 2004 

I talking 1 of test matches in the series , this team is hardly even loosing that . Apart from that pune test against Aus.....this team is not loosing even that one test in the series 

 

I agree but that's what I said - if we mean statistical dominance then sure this team is better; but what happens when accounting for opposition strength? Will the current team beat that Aus side of 04? Will they be able to handle Murali, Warne, Saqlain when they couldn't handle Moeen Ali? Interest discussion.

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13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Also M not sure if We can have gambhir ganguly in same side 

By the time gambhir was permanent in test side ganguly was in his last 1-2 yrs of retirement 

 

It shud be either aakash chopra/sanjay bangar/ jaffer 

Well, you're right that Ganguly and Gambhir didn't play much together, but I was looking at it more as a team of 00s vs the current side and not necessarily one where all of the players played a lot together. If we split hairs that far then even Dhoni may be arguable for some people because he really came into his own post Ganguly.

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1 minute ago, Dil Dil India said:

Will the current team beat that Aus side of 04?

We can .....

i always beileved if u get under the skin of that team .....u can push them and their fitness level did get them on advantage in crucial situation which this team has to

 

So in sports never say never, this team has the attack to take 20 wkts and batsman with more shot range ...and the best counter to that team was attack 

1 minute ago, Dil Dil India said:

 

Will they be able to handle Murali, Warne, Saqlain when they couldn't handle Moeen Ali? Interest discussion.

M not sure Murali wasnt that effective in India  test

Moeen ali failed in series when england visited us 

 

Here the discussion is test played in India only 

 

My question will opp be able to handle shami+bumrah+ umesh reverse swing in Indian condition at that pace + ashwin n jadeja......this attack will trouble any team of any era

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2 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Well, you're right that Ganguly and Gambhir didn't play much together, but I was looking at it more as a team of 00s vs the current side and not necessarily one where all of the players played a lot together. If we split hairs that far then even Dhoni may be arguable for some people because he really came into his own post Ganguly.

dhoni still came in 2005

It shudnt be about ganguly's but more about the team that played 7-8 yrs together which even had dravid n kumble as captain 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

We can .....

i always beileved if u get under the skin of that team .....u can push them and their fitness level did get them on advantage in crucial situation which this team has to

 

So in sports never say never, this team has the attack to take 20 wkts and batsman with more shot range ...and the best counter to that team was attack 

M not sure Murali wasnt that effective in India  test

Moeen ali failed in series when england visited us 

 

Here the discussion is test played in India only 

 

My question will opp be able to handle shami+bumrah+ umesh reverse swing in Indian condition at that pace + ashwin n jadeja......this attack will trouble any team of any era

Oh I agree we are a very strong side at home - we've always been. No questions. I just don't see the current side beating the Aus side of 04. Murali wasn't effective in India because he was up against Sehwag, Tendulkar and Laxman; imagine him vs Vijay, Rahul and Rahane. Even Kohli struggles against top quality spin bowling and doesn't use his feet that much; Pujara is slightly better in that regard but when he gets lbw/bowled too often for my liking.

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

dhoni still came in 2005

It shudnt be about ganguly's but more about the team that played 7-8 yrs together which even had dravid n kumble as captain 

Sure it isn't just Ganguly's India but what I am saying is Dhoni only really flourished as a player once Ganguly was not even in the side. In other words, prime Dhoni and Ganguly never really played together. In the last test match Ganguly played - funnily enough - I think Vijay was one of the openers lol.

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People tend to forget that even the fab 4 had their moments of infamy vs mediocre spinners. Jason Krejza, Ajantha Mendis, Shaun Udal, Michael Clarke all produced ridiculous spells of bowling in subcon conditions against them. 

 

I'd say that it would be a 2-2 drawn series. Both teams have their strengths and weaknesses.

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5 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Oh I agree we are a very strong side at home - we've always been. No questions. I just don't see the current side beating the Aus side of 04. Murali wasn't effective in India because he was up against Sehwag, Tendulkar and Laxman; imagine him vs Vijay, Rahul and Rahane. Even Kohli struggles against top quality spin bowling and doesn't use his feet that much; Pujara is slightly better in that regard but when he gets lbw/bowled too often for my liking.

Vijay n rahul are good players of spin bowling, we are saying now when they have been struggling for form and murali did trouble those guys to so at the end of the day he is a topclass bowler and will get out on some days for sure 

Pujara is as good as anyone against the spin 

 

Kohli still makes runs

 

The only bowler who i feel will trouble our current lot wud be mcgrath big time, but he also troubled the last lot

6 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Sure it isn't just Ganguly's India but what I am saying is Dhoni only really flourished as a player once Ganguly was not even in the side. In other words, prime Dhoni and Ganguly never really played together. In the last test match Ganguly played - funnily enough - I think Vijay was one of the openers lol.

Actually when ganguly came back after axing of chappell i feel he batted his best for those few yrs and dhoni was their 

 

Yea i think vijay was opener coz gautam got banned due to his shoulder incidence with watson

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On real turners, normal tracks we used to slaughter them for fun & if you're counting spinners why not pacers? What's the record of the current lineup against pacers? What would they do against Mcgrath, Steyn, Asif, Bond? Dare I say we wouldn't win a single test away!

Edited by R!TTER

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4 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

People tend to forget that even the fab 4 had their moments of infamy vs mediocre spinners. Jason Krejza, Ajantha Mendis, Shaun Udal, Michael Clarke all produced ridiculous spells of bowling in subcon conditions against them. 

 

I'd say that it would be a 2-2 drawn series. Both teams have their strengths and weaknesses.

yea it wud be very very competitive series. 

the fun part wud be kohli wnt be able to sledge anyone .....might have a go at dada, bhajji  which i wud pay to see  

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2 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

On real turners, normal tracks we used to slaughter them for fun & if you're counting spinners why not pacers? What's the record of the current lineup against pacers? What would they do against Mcgrath, Steyn, Asif, Bond? Dare I say we wouldn't win a single test away!

Kohli made runs against steyn in 2013 and so did pujara n rahane 

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yea it wud be very very competitive series. 

the fun part wud be kohli wnt be able to sledge anyone .....might have a go at dada, bhajji  which i wud pay to see  

Will he play with or against Gambhir? Those two will go after each other for sure :giggle:

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4 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Will he play with or against Gambhir? Those two will go after each other for sure :giggle:

but as i said ganguly n gambhir cant be in same side as gambhir was permanent when ganguly was about to retire

It shud be aakash chopra, bangar, jaffer (unki to bahut sledging hogi)

 

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5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

They also folded like a deck of cards in the next test.

In the next test 

Vijays played a knock of 97+6

Pujara 70 + 32

Kohli 46 + 11 ( kohli scored 100 + n around 90 in 1st test so thats gr8 consistency )

Rahane 51+ 96

 

Not bad certainly not folded

 

 

Steyn did that to our teams full of legend at home , he is an ATG he will have his good days against any side 

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25 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

In the next test 

Vijays played a knock of 97+6

Pujara 70 + 32

Kohli 46 + 11 ( kohli scored 100 + n around 90 in 1st test so thats gr8 consistency )

Rahane 51+ 96

 

Not bad certainly not folded

 

 

Steyn did that to our teams full of legend at home , he is an ATG he will have his good days against any side 

He was also at his peak & we did play on 2 tough tracks that series, just like 2017 unless we ignore those numbers & assume SA in 2010/11 < SA 2013/14 at the time of Kallis' retirement. The point being most of the opposition had better batting in the 2k's - that is one point that's uncontested & cannot be challenged, the opposition also had one or more ATG bowlers in their squad. For all the hoopla about Aus attack, only Cummins avg less than 30 with the ball this year. Not only does the opposition have worse batters, much worse in some cases, but their bowling is largely inexperienced &/or ineffective on flat surfaces.

 

Comparing this Ind team to the one in 2k is like comparing Clarke's Aus, Ashes 2013/14, to Waugh's invincibles circa 1999/2000. Of course ultimately it is a pointless exercise because not every player's peak coincides with his teammates' otherwise peak Sehwag+peak Sachin>any other Indian combo at home or peak Dravid+peak Sachin>any other India combo away.

Edited by R!TTER

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3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Man to Man if u see

 

Will consider in good form 

 

  • GG vs Vijay (both were very good at their peeks at home specially)
  • Sehwag vs Rahul (sehwag at this point)
  • Dravid vs Puj (not much to choose)
  • Kohli vs Sachin (not much to choose)
  • Laxman vs rahane (at home laxman wins hands down)
  • Dhoni vs Pant (pant is to young in his career as of now, dhoni was mature due the age)
  • Kumble vs Ashwin (kumble as a bowler was a lil better but ashwin cover with his batting)
  • Bhajji vs Jadeja ( hmmm...not much to choose jadeja is very underrrated at home )
  • Zak vs Shami ( not much to choose)
  • Ishant vs Umesh ( umesh has advantage due to reverse swing )
  • Ganguly vs kuldeep/rohit/pandya ( ganguly wasnt to gr8 in test , became better only after hie comeback)

 

I have not considered bumrah as he is yet to play at home , he ll be lethal for sure and will give present side a huge edge

Fitness n ground fielding gives current side an edge

Catching the old side

Part time bowling old side and they have sehwag n sachin and even ganguly

Tactically that side had more sound brains

 

Approach - i like this sides approach more as they are aggressive and more focussed on winning 

 

 

 

 

1.  Shaw played in the last home test series.  Although he is no Sehwag yet, but he will probably go on to be a very special player.

 

2.  Shami at home is much better than Zak at home.  Zak was better overseas.

 

3.  Bumrah will definitely be there in a big test series at home now.  And we saw how dangerously he reverse swung the ball at pace at the MCG on a slow track.

 

 

 

2018 team have better spin attack  --   Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep   vs   Kumble, Bhajji  (  Batting ability of Ash and Jadeja allows Kuldeep to play and gain advantage  )

 

2018 team have better much pace attack at home  --  Bumrah and Shami   vs    Zak and Ishant.

 

2000s  team  have slightly better openers at home.

 

Similar upper middle order of 3 and 4.

 

2000s team have better  middle order of 5 and 6 at home due to Laxman.   

 

 

2018 team have better chance of winning on flat tracks due to their much better pace bowling and the fact that their weaker lower middle order will be more effective on flat tracks.

 

On turning tracks, the 2000s team may have advantage due to their batting ability against spin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

1.  Shaw played in the last home test series.  Although he is no Sehwag yet, but he will probably go on to be a very special player.

to early , didnt consider him 

As of now vijay is the option till we see shaw for few yrs and vijay was good at his peek

 

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

2.  Shami at home is much better than Zak at home.  Zak was better overseas.

Zak at his peek was very good at home, shami has more pace but zak was more wiley .......very good with reverse swing and variation

For me he was no less then shami 

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

3.  Bumrah will definitely be there in a big test series at home now.  And we saw how dangerously he reverse swung the ball at pace at the MCG on a slow track.

Hasnt played at home till now so didnt consider him but yes if u ask me how to defeat that side bumrah wud be my no.1 pick and he ll be the x-factor

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

2018 team have better spin attack  --   Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep   vs   Kumble, Bhajji  (  Batting ability of Ash and Jadeja allows Kuldeep to play and gain advantage  )

Wnt play kuldeep against sachin n sehwag....those guys destroyed hogg

Will go for pandya or umesh 

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

2018 team have better much pace attack at home  --  Bumrah and Shami   vs    Zak and Ishant.

Agreed 

Ill be tempeted to play umesh, shami, bumrah against that lineup

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

2000s  team  have slightly better openers at home.

2000s side had no fixed 2nd opener, gambhir came around 2008 thats where i mentioned he n ganguly cnt be in same side

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Similar upper middle order of 3 and 4.

yep

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

2000s team have better  middle order of 5 and 6 at home due to Laxman.   

Kohli is flexible with 6

If u ask me pandya can be used as counter attacking batsman against spin, step down n start hitting them n it was seen that those 2 can be put under pressure

OR ashwin n jadeja are capable enough giving us a option to play 3 seamers

 

 

It wud be very very close series......hard to choose

 

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Conditions
Most of the 2000s was played on flatter pitches similar to what we saw in  recent Ind-SL series and Ind-Eng series. Can't recall a single series which had pitches similar to Ind-SA series 2015 and Ind-Aus 2017.

 

Bowling

Zak is overrated. He was mostly mediocre in his career and when he learnt his skills he lost fitness. Bumrah, Shami and Bhuvi are better than most pacers produced by India. Ishant may end up with similar numbers as of Zak in 2 years. Most of the pacers of 2000s were not better than Yadav who doesn't even find place in current team.

 

Spinners - Ashwin is better than Harbhajan, not Kumble who was a beast on turners in India. India whitewashed Eng in 90s with help of Kumble. Difference between 2 attacks is Jadeja who is relentless with his accuracy and effectiveness in subcontinent. Harbhajan and Kumble didn't play together much. 

 

Batting skills of Ashwin and Jadeja are as good as batsmen and huge difference in home matches. Their contribution equal to 1 and half or sometimes 2 batsmen.

 

Batting

Only Kohli and Pujara are comparable to batsmen of 2000s. Whole line up of 2000s were better players of spin. Whole idea of current crop being more clutch seems so, because of bowlers' performance. Current team crumbled in 2nd inn with 106-8. Team of 2000 would have lost with better batting performance opposition would have scored more runs in 1st inn and we would have blamed debacle of 2nd inn. Here our cracks are covered.

 

Wicketkeepers

Pant is better batsman than Dhoni and his keeping is work in progress. Dhoni's biggest skill - fast stumping was not needed in tests.

 

At Home
On flat pitches - Team of 2000s will constantly draw games against current team. They will not be able to beat current team so easily because Pujara and Kohli are also beast and current team has stonger lower order. It will be 1-1 in 5 match series with team collapsing in 2nd inning with some fluke.

 

On turners - Team of 2000 will beat current team.

 

Away

Current conditions - Unless it's completely lottery pitch, team of 2000s will constantly stuggle to bit current team because of weaker bowling attack. They will lose plot with after 2 sessions and even with better batting efforts, one collapse will put them on backfoot. I think current team has upper hand over team of 2000s.

 

Conditions of 2000s - Mostly drawn games.

 

 

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5 hours ago, kubrickian said:

2000s team will win but what that team lacked was good seamers other than Zak. But with the batting they had, they could post a big total and Zak and Kumble would be good enough to put pressure. But if batting fails, they dont have the bowling to bail the side out of trouble.

 

 

The current players are not that good against spinners,pretty sure bhajji and kumble would be enough for them .

I always imagine what our current bowlers will do the our current batsmen ,it'll be a bloodshed 

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5 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

On paper, the 2000 Indian team must thrash the current team in India.

 

But in a real fight, I think our current team will win or atleast the run that team close.

 

Current Indian spinners know how to use the SG ball. So there won't be a Murali situation.

 

Plus the whole team is clutch as hell in India.

 

2000 Indian team were never this dominating at home in the last decade.

 

Bumrah-Shami-Ashwin-Jaddu-Kuldeep is an insanely relentless attack to face at home.

 

It won't be easy even for the Fab 4 as there won't be any weaklings to target.

True , I also believe that this current team is super clutch at home but what it'll build down to is the ability to play spinners on day 4,5 and I am very confident that bhajji and kumble would roll them over.

The current bowling attack is much better than the superstar one and that's why i feel they'd nick 1 or 2 test

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