Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, goose said: has has done ok I agree...but this side needs to set its sights higher now. he's always going to the support act. the 3rd seamer has to occasionally be the main act. Ishant is not that bowler. then drop a batsman....Ishant cannot be dropped that to for bhuvi in australian conditions I doubt bhuvi will be a main act in sydney specially when he hasnt be same ever since his comeback from injury and he wud be lacking rhythm Edited December 30, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment
maniac Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, zen said: Pandya will probably score in one over what these bowlers who can bat a bit will score in a test Yes he is going to smack Cummins and Starc for 26 runs in an over Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Pandya will do well to last few deliveries against Cummins and co. Bhuvi atleast will fight. Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, maniac said: Yes he is going to smack Cummins and Starc for 26 runs in an over And Lyon too, against whom many of our batsmen have struggled Averages 60+ too in decent batting conditions Edited December 30, 2018 by zen Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, JourneyMan said: Bowling, I agree. But Cummins batting ability has been hugely exaggerated this week. If you look up the stats Bhuvi is slightly ahead of Cummins as a test batsman. To answer the OP, I would pick Pandya over Bhuvi because he has shown good form this year. He is also better suited to Virats in your face aggressive approach as opposed to BK who follows MSDs shy indian bride philosophy. Having said that, on the right pitch there is the option to play both of them. Did you see Cummins bat yesterday. He has all the traits as a batsmen. He is fully side on, good footwork, high front elbow, plays under his eyes, leaves good balls, good against spin (even in India). Some of the shots he played were that of a test batsman. He is in the side as a bowler but he could bat in the top 6. He plays for NSW his state team at no.5 express bowling 1 Link to comment
goose Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: why to drop ishant, he has been bowling well.....neither he has workload issues if you have enough bowlers that can bat a bit you essentially have your dream allrounder. he doesn't have to exist in one player. Link to comment
maniac Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, zen said: And Lyon too, against whom many of our batsmen have struggled Averages 60+ too in decent batting conditions Even I don’t have those expectations from Hitman and this is guy who almost hit a odi triple and a T20 double once and all those other beastly batting feats Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, maniac said: Even I don’t have those expectations from Hitman and this is guy who almost hit a odi triple and a T20 double once and all those other beastly batting feats Hitman can do well in Sydney if the pitch is like what we played in our tour game And so can Pandya, who probably averages higher than hitman in recent matches in tough batting conditions don’t forget Pandya was last man out in the first test in Eng, scored 90 odd when everyone failed, scored a 50 in the test he also picked up that 5-er, has a 100 in SL, .... maniac 1 Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, zen said: And Lyon too, against whom many of our batsmen have struggled He played Moeen Ali very well in that 4th test . He hit the ball straight to midwicket. That should settle the issue what he will do against Lyon at Sydney. And Lyon has the same field protection in the deep. That's why our batsmen struggled. His whole strategy is have a packed on-side field for a right hander and bowls just wide of offstump turning in to offstump. He wants the batsmen to hit against the turn and if they are not to the pitch, they get bowled or lbw or caught bat pad or slip. He is a smart customer. And dont even get me started on his ability to handle the pace bowlers. He is a bits and pieces player just like Mitch Marsh. Link to comment
Sooda Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 54 minutes ago, goose said: It's perception. Players that have bowling as their stronger suit are rarely known as allrounders. It's irrational though. I would not say that, there have been ATG all rounder whose primary skill has been bowling. Bhuvneshwar is not a good enough bat to be called an AR he's. A bowler who can bat Link to comment
Rightarmfast Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Pandya should be kept as far as possible from the test team. He does a huge damage to the team, imbalances the whole of it. Just to accomodate the joker, we lose out on a real bowler and a real batsman. Bhuvi is a thinking cricketer. And he knows how to hold a bat. Bhuvi anyday. Ridgepi and Switchblade 1 1 Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: He played Moeen Ali very well in that 4th test . He hit the ball straight to midwicket. That should settle the issue what he will do against Lyon at Sydney. And Lyon has the same field protection in the deep. That's why our batsmen struggled. His whole strategy is have a packed on-side field for a right hander and bowls just wide of offstump turning in to offstump. He wants the batsmen to hit against the turn and if they are not to the pitch, they get bowled or lbw or caught bat pad or slip. He is a smart customer. And dont even get me started on his ability to handle the pace bowlers. He is a bits and pieces player just like Mitch Marsh. He is a player in his first season adjusting to the learning curve where he has scored a 100 in SL, a 90 in conditions where everyone failed, a 50 in a test he also got the 5-er, 70 odd vs AFG spinners, .... He has played one or two good innings in every series that he has played Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sooda said: I would not say that, there have been ATG all rounder whose primary skill has been bowling. Bhuvneshwar is not a good enough bat to be called an AR he's. A bowler who can bat Exactly. Think of Harbhajan Singh, Shane Warne, Anil Kumble, Ryan Harris, Mitch Johnson, Peter Siddle, Nathan Lyon, Mitch Starc. They can bat but they are not an AR. Link to comment
R!TTER Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 The other guy's not even half of that. Take his fluky 90 odd out in SA he probably avg single digits, avg above 40(?) with the ball in SA. Remove TB & his numbers are equally bad if not worse in England, he works only when we're in a relatively strong position in tests. Rightarmfast 1 Link to comment
maniac Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 @zen @Ankit_sharma03 I see why Pandya is a prospect. Can hit 140ks and is a stroke player. However his defense is still lacking as we saw in England. Bowling is a work in progress. He should be absolutely in the scheme of things and developed further. Bhuvi is a world class bowler. It is not even a debate who is the better bowler.As a batsmen playing a lot of FC before making it he has developed a very good defense which is what we are lacking in our lower order. We don’t really need a strokemaker here but someone who can apply himself a bit. If this was a dead rubber, absolutely Pandya but this is too critical of a game. Can’t risk Pandya or throw him in the deep end especially if he doesn’t have enough match fitness and just coming back from a long layoff. Link to comment
goose Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: Exactly. Think of Harbhajan Singh, Shane Warne, Anil Kumble, Ryan Harris, Mitch Johnson, Peter Siddle, Nathan Lyon, Mitch Starc. They can bat but they are not an AR. Perhaps I didn't quite mean that. Still perception plays a role. The allrounder tag seems reserved for those that excite with bat. What does a bowler have to average with the bat to be termed an allrounder? I would say judging by Flintoff, Stokes, Moeen the threshold is 30 if you can also make it on the strength of your bowling alone. I think Bhuvi has a case. Link to comment
Real McCoy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, zen said: He is a player in his first season adjusting to the learning curve where he has scored a 100 in SL, a 90 in conditions where everyone failed, a 50 in a test he also got the 5-er, 70 odd vs AFG spinners, .... He has played one or two good innings in every series that he has played I'm assuming you are a Pandya fan. 100 against SL (almost a minnow now) when he came in at 322/6 and cowlashed his way to a century. 70 against AFG who are playing their first test seems to be an achievement now. In 5 tests in Eng, he scored a 50 and a 5fer. So that leaves that 92. Ok he played good in that one but still rode his luck. Not very convincing. I agree he is young and learning but do you want him at Sydney on the most important test in our lives. I dont think so. Neither does Bhuvi. Ridgepi and BrantFUGH 1 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, maniac said: @zen @Ankit_sharma03 I see why Pandya is a prospect. Can hit 140ks and is a stroke player. However his defense is still lacking as we saw in England. Bowling is a work in progress. Defence is not bad, infact he covers the line of the ball better then many Problem is those hard hands n angled bat which will get better with time....dhoni had same issue but still did decent on some overseas tours and was a force at home Thing with pandya n pant is they dont hurt much coz of their second skill. Ideally Fc wud be helpful but its diff for him to play FC coz he plays all 3 formats . Their are enough good signs with pandya and enough pluses that he can backed . Our overseas cycle is pretty much done now apart from NZ....we can give him a lot of test at home, WI, SL so the he ll be more exp till next SENA cycle comes Just now, maniac said: He should be absolutely in the scheme of things and developed further. Bhuvi is a world class bowler. It is not even a debate who is the better bowler.As a batsmen playing a lot of FC before making it he has developed a very good defense which is what we are lacking in our lower order. We don’t really need a strokemaker here but someone who can apply himself a bit. yes bhuvi is a better bowler at 6 u also needs someone to score quick as u hve to bat with tail most times Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: I'm assuming you are a Pandya fan. 100 against SL (almost a minnow now) when he came in at 322/6 and cowlashed his way to a century. 70 against AFG who are playing their first test seems to be an achievement now. In 5 tests in Eng, he scored a 50 and a 5fer. So that leaves that 92. Ok he played good in that one but still rode his luck. Not very convincing. I agree he is young and learning but do you want him at Sydney on the most important test in our lives. I dont think so. Neither does Bhuvi. He is among my fav young players such as Pant, Kuldeep, Shaw, etc., that I support and see as an important component for 2020s IF we play two spinners in the 4 specialist bowling slots, I would want Pandya to support Bumrah and Shami and bat at #6 or #7 Link to comment
zen Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, maniac said: @zen @Ankit_sharma03 I see why Pandya is a prospect. Can hit 140ks and is a stroke player. However his defense is still lacking as we saw in England. Bowling is a work in progress. He should be absolutely in the scheme of things and developed further. Bhuvi is a world class bowler. It is not even a debate who is the better bowler.As a batsmen playing a lot of FC before making it he has developed a very good defense which is what we are lacking in our lower order. We don’t really need a strokemaker here but someone who can apply himself a bit. If this was a dead rubber, absolutely Pandya but this is too critical of a game. Can’t risk Pandya or throw him in the deep end especially if he doesn’t have enough match fitness and just coming back from a long layoff. If we are playing 2 specialist spinners among the 4 specialist bowling slots, I would want Pandya as the 3rd seamer (and the "5th" bowler) to support Bumrah and Shami, and bat at #6 or #7 He plays one or two impactful knocks in a series so could come in to play at Sydney (and when our batting has been dependent on Pujara + Kohli, along with now Agarwal) Edited December 30, 2018 by zen Link to comment
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