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Alam_dar

Do you want a ban upon RSS Rallies, just like ban on Friday Prayers of Muslims?

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This is what Ex Chief Justice of Indian Supreme Court has to say:

 

 

My personal preferences

 

(1) Saffron Brigade, weaving swords in hands, most often raising hatred slogans and speeches.  977519655758256They are frightening to normal people. 


This is same when fanatic Islamic Parties , like of Hafiz Saeed and Sapah Sahaba take out processions and rallies in Pakistan. They are filled with absolute hatred and very frightening to normal people.

 

(2) If Muslims gather only for worship and peaceful Friday Prayer for 45 minutes, without any Hatred Sermon before, and without frightening normal people, then there should be no problem with it.  

 

Let people worship as they wish. Either they are Muslims or Christians or Hindus. 

 

I am against religion. I want to counter Islam, Christianity and Hinduism and any religion only through arguments during discussions. The change should come only upon intellectual bases. 


While prohibiting people to worship peacefully, or to IMPOSE upon them your ideas forcefully, all this is counter productive and against universal rules of humanity, and this brings no real change of minds, but only more hatred. 

 

 

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Who has banned muslim prayers?

They should not be allowed to use public space that inconveniences others.

Roads ,side walks,public parks,plane isles are not places people in hordes should pray and inconvenience others.

 

Most rallies are done after police permission.

Even then they should not be allowed on roads that inconvenience public.

 

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12 minutes ago, beetle said:

Who has banned muslim prayers?

They should not be allowed to use public space that inconveniences others.

Roads ,side walks,public parks,plane isles are not places people in hordes should pray and inconvenience others.

 

Most rallies are done after police permission.

Even then they should not be allowed on roads that inconvenience public.

 

It is a good argument.

 

So, if Police allows the Friday prayers for 1 hour, just like police allows rallies, then would it be OK ?

 

No problem if ALL are dealt equally. I am against "selective" permissions by police where RSS rallies come out even disturbing people a lot more, even being more violent, but there stays untold ban upon the Friday Prayers while it is related to a minority which is hated by the majority. 

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26 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

It is a good argument.

 

So, if Police allows the Friday prayers for 1 hour, just like police allows rallies, then would it be OK ?

 

No problem if ALL are dealt equally. I am against "selective" permissions by police where RSS rallies come out even disturbing people a lot more, even being more violent, but there stays untold ban upon the Friday Prayers while it is related to a minority which is hated by the majority. 

which RSS rallies are you talking about?  i have not see any RSS rally in recent years.  

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1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

It is a good argument.

 

So, if Police allows the Friday prayers for 1 hour, just like police allows rallies, then would it be OK ?

 

No problem if ALL are dealt equally. I am against "selective" permissions by police where RSS rallies come out even disturbing people a lot more, even being more violent, but there stays untold ban upon the Friday Prayers while it is related to a minority which is hated by the majority. 

Frankly ,rallies don't happen every week.

Having a huge gathering of people in a public place every week on a working day is very inconvenient to people.

Why do people have to pray in such big numbers together and inconvenience people again and again.

Once or twice a year is fine ...but every week.????

Why can't people pray at home and near their place of work?

It is not about praying,it is about show of strength for the mullahs ,because praying can be done anywhere.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

It is a good argument.

 

So, if Police allows the Friday prayers for 1 hour, just like police allows rallies, then would it be OK ?

 

No problem if ALL are dealt equally. I am against "selective" permissions by police where RSS rallies come out even disturbing people a lot more, even being more violent, but there stays untold ban upon the Friday Prayers while it is related to a minority which is hated by the majority. 

Which? Where? There is no ban on Friday prayers anywhere. I have 3 mosques near my workplace and I can confirm. 

 

So please don't spread misinformation.

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

which RSS rallies are you talking about?  i have not see any RSS rally in recent years.  

Have you not  seen a single rally of Saffron Brigade with even swords in their hands, and loud slogans, which disturbs the life of whole area?

 

And all these rallies are without any police permission. Cow Rakhshaks could gather any where any time and start protesting. 

 

Problem arises only when a minority is gathering for peaceful worship. 

 

My preferences are these:


(1) I will put the condition of permission for all the political rallies, while they disturb the life of ordinary people a lot, and are often the cause of hatred and fears due to communal bias. 

 

(2) While gathering for worship should be "Generally" allowed i.e. police don't have the right to say NO to any such gathering. 

 

(3) But it should be made compulsory  to register the places of Firday prayers and all other religious gatherings too in the Police stations and ask them to make a plan so that these gatherings don't disturb the other people too much. 

This means, any religious gathering should not take place without the prior Police given plan. 

 

This is the way how democracy and rallies are administered in the Western countries. 

 

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15 minutes ago, beetle said:

Frankly ,rallies don't happen every week.

Having a huge gathering of people in a public place every week on a working day is very inconvenient to people.

Why do people have to pray in such big numbers together and inconvenience people again and again.

Once or twice a year is fine ...but every week.????

Why can't people pray at home and near their place of work?

It is not about praying,it is about show of strength for the mullahs ,because praying can be done anywhere.

Good point. 

Police should ask the Muslims to scatter their Friday Prayers at different places. 

 

Edited by Alam_dar

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24 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Which? Where? There is no ban on Friday prayers anywhere. I have 3 mosques near my workplace and I can confirm. 

 

So please don't spread misinformation.

Link.

 

Why did Indian police ban a Muslim group from offering Friday prayers?

NEW DELHI, India — Indian police have warned several private companies in Noida, a suburb next to New Delhi, against allowing their Muslim employees to use a public park for Friday prayers.

The shocking directive also demands the factories and other firms to deter their employees from any religious activity or else face consequences.

The event triggered a public outcry, with people taking to social media to express their anger and disappointment.  

Professor Apoorvanand of the University of Delhi told TRT World, "This is brazen, communal and anti-Muslim attitude from the police.”

“Since when did religious acts like offering namaz becomes disharmony?”

Issued to 23 private companies in Noida, just 20 miles away from the national capital New Delhi, the notice came a day after an alarming video surfaced showing workers of a right-wing Hindu nationalist organisation objecting to a cleric leading namaz in a public park.

The incident is yet another manifestation of India's social discord, which became too brazen after the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came into power in 2014. Since then, hate crimes against the country's minorities, especially Muslims, are on the rise and rarely debated in mainstream media. Public lynchings carried out by mobs affiliated to several right-wing pro-BJP groups are commonplace. And in most cases Muslims and Dalits, an outcast community in Hinduism, have been targeted.  

Fuelled by Hindu nationalism, the highly charged political climate often leads to hate-driven incidents. And the police is often accused of siding with the far-right and encouraging majoritarianism at the cost of minority suffering. The latest controversy over the police notice is seen as yet another outcome of this vicious politics.  

Muslim leader Asaduddin Owaisi of All India Majlis-e-Ittehad-ul Muslimeen, promptly expressed his anger on Twitter. 

“UP Cops (the police) literally showered petals for Kanwariyas (a Hindu procession), but namaz once a week can mean 'disrupting peace & harmony,'" Owaisi said. "This is telling Muslims: do whatever you do, it would be your mistake only. Also, by law, how does one hold an MNC liable for what their employees do in individual capacity?” ...

 

 

 

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How are you going to respond to this argument of Shehla Rashid, while it is a very valid argument and showing the double standards. 

Are you ready to abolish all the Mandirs under the trees which are everywhere in India? 

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I'm highly amused to hear arguments against "public display of religion". We are not China. Public display of religion is very much allowed, be it Kanwariyas, Durga Puja puja pandals in colonies, Ram Lila, and so on and so forth. This is a deliberate misrepresentation of facts.

 

There is a mandir beneath pretty much every tree in India. On highways, stones are marked sacred and they eventually become mandirs. Who are we fooling? Those who say that "public place me religion allowed nahi" may please excuse themselves and go to China.

 
 
Edited by Alam_dar

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@Alam_dar that's just one park. There are many other public places in Noida where they were allowed. Hell I did a simple Google search and it said that Muslim offered prayers in nearby public parks in the same sector. May be there was some other reason with that particular park in question. 

 

And Noida is one city. India is a huge country. Everywhere I have lived my life, 5 am azaan and Friday sermons have been a constant fixture, sometimes irritates me no end but there was never any restriction, minority privilege in secular India you know. The moment someone talks about that (Sonu Nigam), life's in danger for eternity. 

 

So please don't sermonize without understanding the ground reality. I have never witnessed a political or social (RSS and ilk) rally in my neighborhood but loudspeaker azaan, Friday/Ramzan sermons, Quran readings and Eid rallies (show of strength) despite living in 95% Hindu majority areas are constant features of my life. 

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37 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Have you not  seen a single rally of Saffron Brigade with even swords in their hands, and loud slogans, which disturbs the life of whole area?

 

And all these rallies are without any police permission. Cow Rakhshaks could gather any where any time and start protesting. 

 

never seen such rallies myself.  

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I don't have to respond to a fanatic Muslim like Shehla Rashid, her mask was exposed in the O'Connor conversion story.

 

All I can say is that despite our demographics the proportionate representation of Muslims in terms of places of worship or display of religion is far higher than Hindu representation. Hell even Christians have more churches when you take into account their population. In a population of 100, with 80 Hindus, 15 Muslims and 3 Christians if we have 8 temples, 5 mosques and 3 churches, where does the argument of restriction of religion by majoritarian Hindus arise? In no other country are minorities given these rights, not even in the West. 

Edited by Gollum

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1. Hindu RW Rallies don't happen every week.

2. It is not about public display of religion, but illegal occupation of real estate and public nuisance caused.

3. There have been many riots after Jumma prayers, the mullaha and maulvis make provocative speeches and people coming out in large numbers have destroyed public property. There has been min such incidents after rw rallies, even if it did happen, it is not comparable as prayers happen every week and accordingly more such incidents do happen.

5. If illegal mandirs come up, there are disputes among castes that have been settled with removal of mandirs as well in some cases. But if govt tries to remove an illegal mosque, there will be a holy war on the streets, hence the opposition to public prayers in parks which later become mosques. 

 

@Alam_dar, dont parrot the liberal term, majoritarianism to Hindus. It is euro christian term,  in the context of holocaust. Hindus , by majority, are inclusive, and respect other religions. There is no such threat to minorities from the majority in India. This is usual fear mongering done by those opposed to BJP.

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There is an unwritten agreement between many well off societies in Mumbai to avoid giving space to even a single Muslim family as it could lead to trouble in the future.  You give an inch to these people  and  they will start exercising their backward  Sharia inspired rights backed by the Constitution of India. Initially , all they want is some space  but as the number of families increase they might want to organize Kurbaani in open in front of their little ones ( and others)  to emulate the life of their Holy Prophet and satisfy their embedded lust to see blood on the streets . Soon the members of Qoum would want to pray in open in order to show solidarity with each other,  a new Mosque comes up and then you have full day harrasement with a Maulvi barking on the loudspeakers in Arabic. Any opposition from the civil society would then be dismissed as infringment of their minority rights and sign of the growing influence of Hindutva in the country. The dispute no longer remains a  local one  with media and Political parties jumping in.  Looking at the scary events unfolding in the country,  Patriot Muslim Celebrities like Amir Khan,  Javed Akhtar and Nasserrudin Shah would express  fears for the future of their Children in the  country,  which is an indirect dig at the Hindus for their alleged harrasment of Muslims. Pakistanis would rejoice at  all the circus taking place  in India and claim that Jinnah's demand for a separate homeland for   Muslims has been validated once more,    guilt ridden Secular Hindus would  start hating themselves more than ever and wonder what further  needs to be done to appease the Muslims so that they can feel more inclusive and integrated.  Then you wonder if all this trouble  for  some extra cultural enrichment and diversity was worth it.

 

Looking at all the R*ndi Rona from Hindus who often feel harassed and irritated  over Minority Muslims flexing  their muscles and public display of strength  , I am very proud that there is no  Muslim and No Mosque as far as I can see and never will be. No Muslims no trouble imo . They are better off in their filthy ghettos where you can  pray on the streets , slaughter on the streets and experience life in full Islamic Spirit. 

Edited by rageaddict

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1 hour ago, rageaddict said:

Looking at all the R*ndi Rona from Hindus who often feel harassed and irritated  over Minority Muslims flexing  their muscles and public display of strength  , I am very proud that there is no  Muslim and No Mosque as far as I can see and never will be. No Muslims no trouble imo . They are better off in their filthy ghettos where you can  pray on the streets , slaughter on the streets and experience life in full Islamic Spirit. 

I am surprised. How is it even possible? In India?

I haven't been in a neighborhood without a damn mosque with blazing loudspeakers, all in Hindu dominated localities. Even in industrial townships we had our houses within the range of azaan. Every 3rd day my sleep is spoilt because of that loudspeaker bawling early morning. 

Edited by Gollum

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Alam dar is a typical attention seeking muullah even though he tries to hide it cleverly....He & Shela Rashid see rss rallies in every city if India while the citizens of this country hardly see any in a year. I would say there is more chance of seeing a political rally by a small party than rss

 

ICF should ignore him

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12 minutes ago, diga said:

Alam dar is a typical attention seeking muullah even though he tries to hide it cleverly....He & Shela Rashid see rss rallies in every city if India while the citizens of this country hardly see any in a year. I would say there is more chance of seeing a political rally by a small party than rss

 

ICF should ignore him

Not to mention his obsession with Aryan Dravidian theory, 

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30 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I am surprised. How is it even possible? In India?

I haven't been in a neighborhood without a damn mosque with blazing loudspeakers, all in Hindu dominated localities. Even in industrial townships we had our houses within the range of azaan. Every 3rd day my sleep is spoilt because of that loudspeaker bawling early morning. 

Living in Shiv Sena's stronghold in South Mumbai helps :cool:

They will not tolerate all the " occupying the streets " drama and the other party is well aware of it. 

 

Even though Mumbai has around 20-25 % Muslim population, there have always been Strong Hindu and Muslim pockets in the city. The 92-93 Riots further deepened the divide ,  after which a  few Hindus who lived in Muslim majority areas and Muslims who lived in Hindu Majority areas shifted to localities that  they perceived as more safe. The Muslim Mohallas are the ones from where the Ibrahmins , Memons and other anti-National gangsters/terroists have come up.

 

You would have come across many cases in the media  where Muslims have been denied  a flat in Cosmopolitan housing societies , which even though denied by many happens for real ( this one for example )( https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/palghar-police-book-11-persons-for-denying-muslim-man-right-to-buy-flat-in-vasai-housing-society-3036560/

 

Sure it looks discriminatory on paper but you cannot put the  blame on people wanting to avoid trouble after investing the earnings of their lifetime in buying their ideal home. You would not want to fight legal battles with a particular occupant of your apartment over religious differences and their extraordinary demands.  The other party doesnt believe in making a compromise over their religion and keeping their religiosity confined to four walls. As if the Mosques are not enough they want to takeover public spaces in name of religion and cry discrimination upon being denied the right to do so. The Public  Parks , Gardens and Playgrounds are for recreational activity and social interaction but the ones who believe in showing strength through numbers feel entitled to all rights and  find  it difficult to come in terms with it. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Gollum said:

@Alam_dar that's just one park. There are many other public places in Noida where they were allowed. Hell I did a simple Google search and it said that Muslim offered prayers in nearby public parks in the same sector. May be there was some other reason with that particular park in question. 

There is no place to pray within the radius of 5 km of this park. 

Link

 

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

And Noida is one city. India is a huge country. Everywhere I have lived my life, 5 am azaan and Friday sermons have been a constant fixture, sometimes irritates me no end but there was never any restriction, minority privilege in secular India you know. The moment someone talks about that (Sonu Nigam), life's in danger for eternity. 

I fully support you here. One could pray as long as he is not disturbing other above a certain level. While AZAN is not obligatory in Islam, but only a call so that people become aware of time of prayer. But in the new era, this is no more necessary as people have watches and they can see the time. 

 

Even in country like Pakistan, Muslims are themselves fed up of tens of Azans 5 times a day, and they are try to remove Azan with loud speakers on the bases of this same argument that Azan is not compulsory, and every one has a watch. 

 

Certain Level:

 

In Europe, they allow Azan with the conditions that:

 

1. It could only be called once a week for the Friday prayer. 

2. Loud speakers should not be louder than certain level. 

3. Churches are also allowed to ring the bells once in a week on Sunday. Also they should be lower than some level. 

4. Mandirs are also allowed to ring the bells once a week on Sunday. 

 

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6 hours ago, Gollum said:

I don't have to respond to a fanatic Muslim like Shehla Rashid, her mask was exposed in the O'Connor conversion story.

If it would have been a case related only to Shela Rashid, then aiming at her would have solved the problem. 

But problem is this that this argument concerns the general situation in India and holds weight in court of justice. 

It would be very difficult to convince a community mentally to give up their prayer at the public places voluntarily when others also use the public places for worship. 

It would not be wise for Police to take one sided actions on this issue. 

Solutions could be found by taking actions against ALL at the same time who violate the law. 

 

6 hours ago, Gollum said:

All I can say is that despite our demographics the proportionate representation of Muslims in terms of places of worship or display of religion is far higher than Hindu representation. Hell even Christians have more churches when you take into account their population. In a population of 100, with 80 Hindus, 15 Muslims and 3 Christians if we have 8 temples, 5 mosques and 3 churches, where does the argument of restriction of religion by majoritarian Hindus arise? In no other country are minorities given these rights, not even in the West. 

 

In my opinion a BALANCED approach could be as we see in the Western countries:

 

Following things should be banned:

 

1. Ban the Azans on loudspeekers, except for one Azan on Friday. 

2. Ban any Khutba (Sermon) on Loudspeakers. 

3. And only Government approved Sermon should be allowed in the mosques. Governments of Saudi Arabia and many other Muslim countries have full control upon the Sermon which is delivered in the mosques on Jummah prayer. 

 

Following things should be allowed:

 

4. Praying, even at the public places, but without use of loudspeakers, without any independently written Khutba. 
Police written Plan should be obligatory to follow (i.e. Police has to tell where to pray, and at what time prayer takes place etc) so that other peoples are not disturbed badly.

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4 hours ago, rageaddict said:

There is an unwritten agreement between many well off societies in Mumbai to avoid giving space to even a single Muslim family as it could lead to trouble in the future.  You give an inch to these people  and  they will start exercising their backward  Sharia inspired rights backed by the Constitution of India. Initially , all they want is some space  but as the number of families increase they might want to organize Kurbaani in open in front of their little ones ( and others)  to emulate the life of their Holy Prophet and satisfy their embedded lust to see blood on the streets . Soon the members of Qoum would want to pray in open in order to show solidarity with each other,  a new Mosque comes up and then you have full day harrasement with a Maulvi barking on the loudspeakers in Arabic. Any opposition from the civil society would then be dismissed as infringment of their minority rights and sign of the growing influence of Hindutva in the country. The dispute no longer remains a  local one  with media and Political parties jumping in.  Looking at the scary events unfolding in the country,  Patriot Muslim Celebrities like Amir Khan,  Javed Akhtar and Nasserrudin Shah would express  fears for the future of their Children in the  country,  which is an indirect dig at the Hindus for their alleged harrasment of Muslims. Pakistanis would rejoice at  all the circus taking place  in India and claim that Jinnah's demand for a separate homeland for   Muslims has been validated once more,    guilt ridden Secular Hindus would  start hating themselves more than ever and wonder what further  needs to be done to appease the Muslims so that they can feel more inclusive and integrated.  Then you wonder if all this trouble  for  some extra cultural enrichment and diversity was worth it.

Looking at all the R*ndi Rona from Hindus who often feel harassed and irritated  over Minority Muslims flexing  their muscles and public display of strength  , I am very proud that there is no  Muslim and No Mosque as far as I can see and never will be. No Muslims no trouble imo . They are better off in their filthy ghettos where you can  pray on the streets , slaughter on the streets and experience life in full Islamic Spirit. 

Many Europeans are also of this opinion now NO Muslims NO problems. They simply refuse to integrate. Religion comes for them before Humanity and all other things. 

 

I have no sympathy for the fanatic Muslims, who want to impose Islam by force upon whole world. 

 

But I do feel sorry for moderate Muslims, who do respect others, and only want to live in peace. 

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3 hours ago, diga said:

Alam dar is a typical attention seeking muullah even though he tries to hide it cleverly....

What!!!

You only blamed me for being a Mullah!!

 

You are a sweet person brother if you blame me for only being Mullah. Should I say thanks to you?

 

While when I debate with my fellow Pakistani Muslims about Human Rights, then I go under their skin, and they blame me for every possible crime like agent of RAW, Israel, West, Munafiq, Dajjal, Satan, Murtad ..... and minimum punishment for me should be the painful killing (according to Quran my right hand and right foot should be cut and then I should be left to die. 

 

Therefore, as compared to my fellow Pakistani Muslims, you seems to be a sweet and kind hearted person. 

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7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

never seen such rallies myself.  

Me neither. I havee seen a few unarmed Chaddhidharis  though.

 

BTW, why ban on friday prayers unless its in Public place. Ban of group prayers in public place is absolutely correct and must be enforced as this is nothing but religious/mosque/temple encroaching a publuc park which is for general population use

Edited by mishra

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4 hours ago, diga said:

Alam dar is a typical attention seeking muullah even though he tries to hide it cleverly....He & Shela Rashid see rss rallies in every city if India while the citizens of this country hardly see any in a year. I would say there is more chance of seeing a political rally by a small party than rss

 

ICF should ignore him

I sensed that too. RSS rallies? where? 

Edited by MechEng

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16 hours ago, rageaddict said:

Living in Shiv Sena's stronghold in South Mumbai helps :cool:

They will not tolerate all the " occupying the streets " drama and the other party is well aware of it. 

 

Even though Mumbai has around 20-25 % Muslim population, there have always been Strong Hindu and Muslim pockets in the city. The 92-93 Riots further deepened the divide ,  after which a  few Hindus who lived in Muslim majority areas and Muslims who lived in Hindu Majority areas shifted to localities that  they perceived as more safe. The Muslim Mohallas are the ones from where the Ibrahmins , Memons and other anti-National gangsters/terroists have come up.

 

You would have come across many cases in the media  where Muslims have been denied  a flat in Cosmopolitan housing societies , which even though denied by many happens for real ( this one for example )( https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/palghar-police-book-11-persons-for-denying-muslim-man-right-to-buy-flat-in-vasai-housing-society-3036560/

 

Sure it looks discriminatory on paper but you cannot put the  blame on people wanting to avoid trouble after investing the earnings of their lifetime in buying their ideal home. You would not want to fight legal battles with a particular occupant of your apartment over religious differences and their extraordinary demands.  The other party doesnt believe in making a compromise over their religion and keeping their religiosity confined to four walls. As if the Mosques are not enough they want to takeover public spaces in name of religion and cry discrimination upon being denied the right to do so. The Public  Parks , Gardens and Playgrounds are for recreational activity and social interaction but the ones who believe in showing strength through numbers feel entitled to all rights and  find  it difficult to come in terms with it. 

 

In an ideal situation, it should be the "System" which should be dynamic and able enough to fight the evils of any group. 

It should be the system which should ban the Azans, or non-governmental controlled Sermons at the places of worship, or the usage of loudspeakers. 

And I think all these objectives are achievable while staying in the system, as West has controlled the  use of loudspeakers and Azans, while governments of Muslim countries control the sermons. 

 

It is never a good idea to have Mafia gangs like Shiv Sena to have your affairs in their hands. 

These gangs work above the law and bring a lot of negative effects on the society along with them. 

Every possible efforts should be made to replace such Mafias through the System in any civilized society. 

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17 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

There is no place to pray within the radius of 5 km of this park. 

Link

Don't know then, no mosque nearby? I hadn't followed this development before you posted this thread. 

Maybe they should stick to prayers at home like many Hindus do, if distance is such an inconvenience. If they work somewhere I am sure they can talk with the employers and get a space. In an office I worked in till a few months back, there were a few Muslim employees and they had access to an empty room for prayers where no one would disturb them. I have seen Muslims offer prayers in train berths and roadside platforms, space to pray isn't a problem and most non-Muslim Indians are very accommodative. If one park in India says no, they must have valid reasons and we need to respect that. We only have control over what happens in our private property, everywhere else there is the question of convenience and permission. 

Quote

I fully support you here. One could pray as long as he is not disturbing other above a certain level. While AZAN is not obligatory in Islam, but only a call so that people become aware of time of prayer. But in the new era, this is no more necessary as people have watches and they can see the time. 

 

Even in country like Pakistan, Muslims are themselves fed up of tens of Azans 5 times a day, and they are try to remove Azan with loud speakers on the bases of this same argument that Azan is not compulsory, and every one has a watch. 

 

Certain Level:

 

In Europe, they allow Azan with the conditions that:

 

1. It could only be called once a week for the Friday prayer. 

2. Loud speakers should not be louder than certain level. 

3. Churches are also allowed to ring the bells once in a week on Sunday. Also they should be lower than some level. 

4. Mandirs are also allowed to ring the bells once a week on Sunday. 

 

Azan is here to stay in India and unfortunately we are powerless to stop the use of loudspeakers. Church bells annoy us on Sunday mornings, temple festivals a few days in the year, but azan and Friday sermons happen all the time. And you can't reason with the Muslims. I remember when there was an entrance exam in my high school days on a Sunday in a college adjoining a church. The authorities requested the father to reduce volume so that the students aren't affected and he listened to them. They conducted their prayers and songs without causing disturbance and we weren't affected. Temple authorities can be talked to. If someones tries this stunt with Muslims it can get ugly. A priest in South India recently was killed by a nearby mosque's Imam because he was conducting Hindu prayers during time of azan. A vast majority of Hindus in a Hindu majority country have to live in fear to maintain secularism and political correctness. 

17 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

If it would have been a case related only to Shela Rashid, then aiming at her would have solved the problem. 

But problem is this that this argument concerns the general situation in India and holds weight in court of justice. 

It would be very difficult to convince a community mentally to give up their prayer at the public places voluntarily when others also use the public places for worship. 

It would not be wise for Police to take one sided actions on this issue. 

Solutions could be found by taking actions against ALL at the same time who violate the law. 

In my opinion a BALANCED approach could be as we see in the Western countries:

Following things should be banned:

1. Ban the Azans on loudspeekers, except for one Azan on Friday. 

2. Ban any Khutba (Sermon) on Loudspeakers. 

3. And only Government approved Sermon should be allowed in the mosques. Governments of Saudi Arabia and many other Muslim countries have full control upon the Sermon which is delivered in the mosques on Jummah prayer. 

Following things should be allowed:

4. Praying, even at the public places, but without use of loudspeakers, without any independently written Khutba. 
Police written Plan should be obligatory to follow (i.e. Police has to tell where to pray, and at what time prayer takes place etc) so that other peoples are not disturbed badly.

India is doing alright. Today I listened to 3 Friday sermons at maximum volume from 3 nearby mosques when I was having lunch. India is a country of over 1.2 billion, don't extrapolate isolated incidents to paint the picture of an entire country. Any idea how many mosques are there in India? How many public prayers by Muslims are conducted all over India? In no other non Islamic country are minority Muslims given this much freedom to practice their faith. 

Edited by Gollum

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@Alam_dar Before you use this isolated example to form a picture about Hindus, check out these links and there are more examples if you search the Internet space. The Dharmic religions have always accommodated other faiths, often at their own peril. An incident in some park somewhere can't be used to guilt trip Hindus. 

 

LINK1

 

LINK2

 

LINK3

 

Muslims can only take, take and take. Never give or adjust. And then they play the victim card when the other side seeks a compromise or minor adjustment. They cry secularism, tolerance, liberalism etc when in minority and when in majority.....you know right?

 

Any wonder why the rest of humanity sees Muslims in a particular way? 

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No loudspeakers, all gatherings whether religious or political to take place at private locations or on private property. Street durgas and mandirs will be dismantled. Anyone who wants to worship is free to do so in a temple, church, mosque etc, but these will be registered locations with a well defined border from public property. If the capacity is insufficient, too bad, the community needs to gather funds for a new location. 

Edited by JourneyMan

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3 hours ago, JourneyMan said:

No loudspeakers, all gatherings whether religious or political to take place at private locations or on private property. Street durgas and mandirs will be dismantled. Anyone who wants to worship is free to do so in a temple, church, mosque etc, but these will be registered locations with a well defined border from public property. If the capacity is insufficient, too bad, the community needs to gather funds for a new location. 

It will be ideal situation if it happens.  

 

But what about the religious/political rallies and protests? Could they be allowed on the public roads/places?

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16 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

It will be ideal situation if it happens.  

 

But what about the religious/political rallies and protests? Could they be allowed on the public roads/places?

No rallies. Religious events should be confined to the place of worship. Political speeches can be held at any venue that is available and willing to rent out their premises. 

 

Indian streets are crowded enough already, these daily street rallies are just a hindrance and have never brought about any real change or progress. 

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15 hours ago, JourneyMan said:

No rallies. Religious events should be confined to the place of worship. Political speeches can be held at any venue that is available and willing to rent out their premises. 

 

Indian streets are crowded enough already, these daily street rallies are just a hindrance and have never brought about any real change or progress. 

 

Its actually about spreading a false narrative that RSS is doing jihadi type rallies in Indian street. Seems like its working.

@Alam_dar there is nothing like that. The topic you have choosen has less credibility then CIA blowing up twin towers or Osama bin Laden not killed by Americans in Pakistan.

Edited by mishra

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2 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Its actually about spreading a false narrative that RSS is doing jihadi type rallies in Indian street. Seems like its working.

@Alam_dar there is nothing like that. The topic you have choosen has less credibility then CIA blowing up twin towers or Osama bin Laden not killed by Americans in Pakistan.

They can do flower power gatherings for all I care, but they should do it on their own premises or at a privately rented location. Same goes for all other political parties and all religious groups. 

 

Keep the public streets and areas free from political and religious gatherings. It just adds unnecessary traffic and congestion without actually giving any benefits. 

 

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10 hours ago, mishra said:

 

Its actually about spreading a false narrative that RSS is doing jihadi type rallies in Indian street. Seems like its working.

@Alam_dar there is nothing like that. The topic you have choosen has less credibility then CIA blowing up twin towers or Osama bin Laden not killed by Americans in Pakistan.

 

I am afraid that news of such rallies by Saffron brigade is all over in the newspapers. 

 

RSS , Shiv Sena, Bajran Dal .... the protests and saffron rallies for Ram Mandir. 

 

Gao Rakshaks openly doing rallies and protests at the public places. 

 

And it is the Chief Justice of Supreme Court of India who is giving a statement about RSS rallies. 

 

 

 

rss-sword320.jpg

weapon-worship_e0d5687e-ecbe-11e7-ad70-1

 

_9f345266-2d9d-11e8-a965-f54d0b6b9edf.jp

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19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

@Alam_dar Google Ayudha Pooja, done on the 9th day of Navratri especially in South India. It is when Pandavas broke their Agnathavaas and went to war on Vijayadashmi for Virat King.. You liberals mistake these religious ceremonies to violence from terrorists. Shame on you. 

Yes. Those girls. All look southie.

 

RSS is still all boyz club in India. Women are not part of it @Alam_dar

 

Various local Hindu/Indian Traditions and ceremonies shouldnt be confused with RSS rallies. You want miss khaki half pant in RSS pics. Wherewver u got the source from, its misinformation.

 

Edited by mishra

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12 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

@Alam_dar Google Ayudha Pooja, done on the 9th day of Navratri especially in South India. It is when Pandavas broke their Agnathavaas and went to war on Vijayadashmi for Virat King.. You liberals mistake these religious ceremonies to violence from terrorists. Shame on you. 

I am not interested either in Islam or Saffron Brigade. Extremism is always bad, even if it is Atheist Extremism. 

 

The problem I see is this that Saffron brigade use extremist Muslims as EXCUSE for their own fanatic activities. To my wonder, Saffron brigade constantly pose themselves as "MAZLOOMs". This is a strange opposite mentality. In no way their fanatic activities come any more under being "Mazlooms". 

 

The real Mazlooms are only one, i.e. the normal humanity loving people, who only want to live in peace.

 

As far as the photo of saffron girls with swords in concerned, then they were from the RSS rallies, and politically motivated in name of religion. 

 

When Muslims try to show their power in Jumma prayers in name of their religion, then it is condemned. But same should be the standards for Sangh Parivar saffron brigade. They are frightening not only the Muslims, but normal people too with such activities. 

 

An Innocent Human life has preference above all religions and gods and nationalism and race and language. 

 

https://www.hindujagruti.org/news/98794.html

 

After armed rallies on Ram Navami, Imam of Tipu Mosque asks Mamata to ‘ban RSS’ in Bengal

Banerjee called the armed rallies an attempt to communalise the state

rss-sword.jpg

Never ever had the state of West Bengal seen such widespread pomp over Ram Navami. In what has been a bid to unite the Hindus of the state by Rashtriya Sayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and other wings of the Sangh Parivar, about 50 processions of different sizes were organised on the occasion of Ram Navami on 4th April in Kolkata.

Activists, bike borne and on foot, brandishing swords and chanting ‘Jay Shree Ram’ were seen in all the cases with giant size pictures of Lord Ram leading all the processions.

Interestingly processions were taken out even at the Muslim-majority pockets such as Kidderpore where they also shouted slogans like ‘Hindu Raj Banayenge’ (will build Hindu rule).

While RSS-backed organisations took out rallies at Burrabazar and other areas of north Kolkata, at Bhawanipore in central Kolkata and Garia in south Kolkata armed activists of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) participated in the rally. 

 

At Durgapur in Burdwan district, women and school children walked the rallies, sword in hand along with members of the saffron brigade.

 

Shahi Imam of Tipu Sultan Masjid, Syed Md Nurur Rahman Barkati, at another press conference said that RSS should be banned in India. “RSS is a threat to India and just as the US banned Taliban, RSS should be banned in the country. I will talk to the CM and request her to ban RSS in Bengal, because it is spreading communal tension everywhere,” Barkati said on the sidelines of the press conference.

Edited by Alam_dar

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50 minutes ago, diga said:

@coffee_rulesWhy do you indulge this guy Alam ... he is just interested in RSS bashing without ever going to check how many result in violence or block traffic affecting common man.? Dont think he is an atheist as he claims to be 

 

 

I see your point. For people like him, read Ratan Sharda's book on RSS , 

 

RSS 360 °: Demystifying Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh
Book by Ratan Sharda

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