Should Pant start batting at #6?

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Dont want Ashwin.  he will again get injured mid series.  Either need to blood Kuldeep for full-time or some other off spinner like Gowtham. Ashwin's time is up in my book.

Its a phase for ashwin its not that he wnt get over it.....if he gets injured mid series we can look at other options

[express bowling]

The basic game that Pant possesses,  as a test batsman, is amazingly good.  Often, it gets hidden in casual shots and slogs.  But when he manages to control them ...  we see a complete batsman with a good off-stump game, good short ball game and lots of time to play the 150 k bowler.

 

How many times have we seen the bowlers beat him in test matches, since he got his first test century and got his feet wet  ?   It is a very infrequent happening.  He gets occasionally beaten because of his slogs and own shot choice.

 

Pant is now averaging 49.7  with the bat after playing 9 tests, which includes 7 tests in SENA. Not easy for a debutant.  

 

Why should we subject such a batsman to the discomfort of batting frequently with the tail, that too with our tail  ?   

 

Let him flourish and realize his potential as a batsman at No.6.   Him being a keeper would not make much difference at 6 or 7.

Edited January 4, 2019 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Its a phase for ashwin its not that he wnt get over it.....if he gets injured mid series we can look at other options

It's not a phase. He has been getting injured every series since 2016 England series.

[Vijy]

49 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The basic game that Pant possesses,  as a test batsman, is amazingly good.  Often, it gets hidden in casual shots and slogs.  But when he manages to control them ...  we see a complete batsman with a good off-stump game, good short ball game and lots of time to play the 150 k bowler.

 

How many times have we seen the bowlers beat him in test matches, since he got his first test century and got his feet wet  ?   It is a very infrequent happening.  He gets occasionally beaten because of his slogs and own shot choice.

  

Pant is now averaging 49.7  with the bat after playing 9 tests, which includes 7 tests in SENA. Not easy for a debutant.  

 

Why should we subject such a batsman to the discomfort of batting frequently with the tail, that too with our tail  ?   

  

Let him flourish and realize his potential as a batsman at No.6.   Him being a keeper would not make much difference at 6 or 7.

yes, our tail is a horrible place for any batsman to make a mark.

[fineleg]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

The basic game that Pant possesses,  as a test batsman, is amazingly good.  Often, it gets hidden in casual shots and slogs.

Yes, Pant's weakness is the brainless shot selection and impulsive rush. He needs to keep working on the mental rush aspect and coaches should work with him. Rest of his batting will evolve naturally over time. Good batsman just needs to control the rush of blood and over-innovative cute shots. Just play normal cricket and he will be good.

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, fineleg said:

brainless shot selection

lol he just scored 159 * in Australia against Cummins Starc Hazelwood Lyon. wonder who you scored against?

 

8 minutes ago, fineleg said:

the mental rush aspect

 

Wow, what is this..  garlic rasam for dinner perhaps?

[Yoda-esque]

He is freak of nature.Move him up

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[SrinjayDutta]

A keeper should always be 7 unless match situation demands. Keeper squats every ball and concentrates, it is too vital and tiring. If pant moves up then he should play as a pure bat.

[vvvslaxman]

Pandya would be 6 once he is back. otherwise Vihari.

[singhprakash72]

11 minutes ago, SrinjayDutta said:

A keeper should always be 7 unless match situation demands. Keeper squats every ball and concentrates, it is too vital and tiring. If pant moves up then he should play as a pure bat.

+1 after century if he drops catches like he already did ...it will be a wash. His keeping is below average and that should be the first goal to get it to acceptable level. His 30s 40s in places like SENA is good enough if he can hold on to catches. This hundred was great but remember no pressure an attack totally drained and that is what he should do at 7 but to expect him to become Gilchrist or Sanga is too much in my opinion.

[SrinjayDutta]

+1 after century if he drops catches like he already did ...it will be a wash. His keeping is below average and that should be the first goal to get it to acceptable level. His 30s 40s in places like SENA is good enough if he can hold on to catches. This hundred was great but remember no pressure an attack totally drained and that is what he should do at 7 but to expect him to become Gilchrist or Sanga is too much in my opinion.

Maybe go the bairstow way, just become a batsman??

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[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, singhprakash72 said:

+1 after century if he drops catches like he already did ...it will be a wash. His keeping is below average and that should be the first goal to get it to acceptable level. His 30s 40s in places like SENA is good enough if he can hold on to catches. This hundred was great but remember no pressure an attack totally drained and that is what he should do at 7 but to expect him to become Gilchrist or Sanga is too much in my opinion. 

sanga gave up keeping to focus on batting. before giving up keeping, he was averaging in the low 40s. It's possible, however, for keepers to bat in top 6 and still be good keepers like flower. Biggest problem pant has now is his keeping, which is pretty raw. also, as others have noted before, needs to cut down on ugly hoicks and slogs.

[singhprakash72]

I think it is too early to take him a pure batsman too...we should give him some more time to improve as a keeper and then he will augment the not so strong batting line up. If he keep scoring consistently then we can go Sanga way. Given a choice (folks may not agree) I would still prefer Saha instead of Pant, as he can bat decent ( not flamboyant as pant) but more importantly takes all catches and even converts half chances. 

[vvvslaxman]

Keepers mature when they age. How many 21/22 year olds have pristine keeping record. They will have their odd failures. He still created a record for 21 catches. I prefer him to play as a keeper. He has to improve. No doubt about that. But is he pappu patel, kkd bad? No.  

[zen]

A lot of WK AR have batted in top 6. From the top of my mind - Flower, Stewart, Engineer, etc 

 

In sub con the top 4 tend to score heavily. Outside subcon, the recent #5-6 specialist batsmen have been like passengers more often than not so guys like Pant are coming in early to bat than expected 

 

if we had VVS and Ganguly at #5-6, Pant would be good at #7. Our team dynamics have changed too. Pant is among our best batsmen both in terms of potential and recent performances (and better than many of the specialist batsmen playing at 6, who are more often than not blocking a spot, and played for their value more on paper than on field) 

Edited January 4, 2019 by zen

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

A lot of WK AR have batted in top 6. From the top of my mind - Flower, Stewart, Engineer, etc 

that's true. stewart had much less success as keeper-batsman compared to pure batsman. engineer's avg was in the low 30s, because he was a dasher who thew his wkt away often. sanga before giving up gloves had an avg of 40+, there's flower of course, and there was also WI great walcott who gave up the gloves. but it's rather rare to find keepers in the top 6 who avg > 40.

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Keepers mature when they age. How many 21/22 year olds have pristine keeping record. They will have their odd failures. He still created a record for 21 catches. I prefer him to play as a keeper. He has to improve. No doubt about that. But is he pappu patel, kkd bad? No.  

james foster was an excellent keeper by the time he made his debut at 21. however, he was very bad at batting. pant is not a naturally gifted keeper, but if he works hard, he can improve a great deal.

[cowboysfan]

absolutely not.He plays a high risk game and the law of averages say it wont work out like it did with some of his miscues in Sydney.

[vvvslaxman]

We floated similar idea with Ashwin. Here is the thing. They are more likely to deliver when you don't expect much from them.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, cowboysfan said:

absolutely not.He plays a high risk game and the law of averages say it wont work out like it did with some of his miscues in Sydney.

he is 21, and once he learns better shot-selection and game awareness, he has the ability to bat at 6. there have been plenty of high-risk, high-reward players who have batted in tests - sehwag, jayasuria, gilly, etc. sometimes it came off, sometimes it didn't. pant has a reasonably sound defence (occupied a decent no. of balls even in perth & adelaide), can play proper cricketing shots (when she shelves those hoicks), and has always batted in top 5/6 for Delhi.

 

I don't think people are saying that he should immediately become 6 - just that he has the potential to play as a No. 6 in the near-future