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Should ICF arm chair pundits say sorry to Shastri?

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5 minutes ago, Vilander said:

lol are you proud of kgf also..hehe you folks provide comedy value.

There's nothing funnier than to see your cringe worthy inferiority complex. Again, how many Cricketers did your state Tamil Nadu produce? :lol:

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17 hours ago, express bowling said:

In a professional set-up  ...  

 

Anyone who delivers results deserves praise. The same applies to Shastri.  

 

Similarly,  anyone who cannot deliver results needs to be held accountable. 

 

A big praise for Shastri  for winning in Australia.  Well done  !

And he should be held accountable for the losses in South Africa and England.

To me, process and preparation is the most important part of a coach. He needs to ensure he is advising the captain on the best possible team combination for a match (bewda failed in that) and adequate preparation ahead of a series via practice matches (failed again). If anything, Australia proved what could and should have been achieved. For the kind of money he is paid and resources at his disposal, he hasn't done the team any favours and needs to answer for lack of preparation and random team selection. Results may vary. You may be the best coach but if you coach Zimbabwe, you will end up losing in say India. Results are not always the best representation of how well you have performed your duties as a coach.

Edited by Samcric

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30 minutes ago, Samcric said:

To me, process and preparation is the most important part of a coach. He needs to ensure he is advising the captain on the best possible team combination for a match (bewda failed in that) and adequate preparation ahead of a series via practice matches (failed again). If anything, Australia proved what could and should have been achieved. For the kind of money he is paid and resources at his disposal, he hasn't done the team any favours and needs to answer for lack of preparation and random team selection. Results may vary. You may be the best coach but if you coach Zimbabwe, you will end up losing in say India. Results are not always the best representation of how well you have performed your duties as a coach.

 

While I agree with the basic principles you have outlined above,  a few issues need expansion.

 

1)  Defeating Australia in Australia is a big deal and a tough ask.  So,  quite a few things must have been done right on this tour.

 

2)  Not having enough practice games is partly due to the itinerary forced on this team. 

 

Yes, they cancelled the sole 2-day practice game in SA and reduced the only practice game in England ... but that looked like Kohli's decision to me.  He said rather forcefully that he did not think that practice matches against weak teams would help them.

 

3)  Not sure whether Kohli takes or took his advice, or any other coach's advice, on all issues.  This point is partly reflected in the above point.

 

4)  They did learn to some extent from the mistakes of earlier tours. 

--  Team selection was mostly ok, barring the 2nd test in Perth, where no spinner was selected.

--  The middle order batters, wicket keeper and pacers were allowed to settle down and given full series in fixed positions.

--  The practice match was not reduced for a change.   :phehe:     The tight itinerary did not allow for more practice matches.

--  Buddy Dhawan was scrapped at last.

--  Groomed new opener Shaw before the test series.  Unfortunately, he got injured. Then another new opener was brought in.

 

5)  Developing a potent pace trio for test matches and allowing them to settle down ...  Shastri, Kohli and Arun ... all deserve a lot of credit for this.  

--  Bumrah, the LOI specialist, was debuted in tests without any recent FC exploits or games. Courageous decision to play him straight in SA and back him.

--  Ishant's career has been resurrected. 

--  Shami was not rejected after the kind of personal troubles he faced. This requires a good man manager, and Shastri is one.

 

 

So  I said ...

 

Congratulate Shastri for learning from past mistakes to some extent on this tour,  better team selections and delivering results in Australia.

 

And hold him responsible for poor preparations and random team selections in SA and England.  He must still be asked why he did these on earlier tours.

 

 

 

 

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Look this historic win doesn't invalidate the earlier puzzling team selections and lack of improvement in players. Bowlers have shown a great improvement, but why shouldn't we ask why have batsmen like Rahul and Rahane have regressed so much with the same technical weaknesses coming up repeatedly? Why has the catching remained poor?

 

What about the continued baffling selections in shorter formats? Who will take the blame for those goofups?

 

Being the coach, he will obviously get the credit due to him, but that does not mean we did not perform poorly in SA and England.

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If India had won more tosses in SA and England the results (especially in SA) would have been different.

 

We need to maybe acknowledge that India is at a stage where they win (or dont lose) matches anywhere when they win the toss. 

 

People on this thread saying, what has Shastri done? Are they privy to information what happens behind the scenes? This is exactly what I mean by arm chair pundits. clearly he is doing something right.

 

Attention should also be paid to the fact that playing non stop away from home is not easy. Especially in England the tests come thick and fast. It would be ideal if India have a balanced home and away schedule.

 

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What man. We are saying result of series is decided on toss of a coin. 

We could have easily won series in England ,Africa and Australia if Chepu played all the games and Kumble or his likes were there to stop Kohli maintaining A+  BCCI contractual pay grade of his mates and Bunty's Bunny.

 

After Gavaskar gave that interview, where he asked for accountabilty, It seemed Kohli and Shashtri realised, BCCI will act.

Gavaskars words carry a lot of weight. No pooh poohing to his words

 

 

Edited by mishra

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56 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

If India had won more tosses in SA and England the results (especially in SA) would have been different.

 

We need to maybe acknowledge that India is at a stage where they win (or dont lose) matches anywhere when they win the toss. 

 

People on this thread saying, what has Shastri done? Are they privy to information what happens behind the scenes? This is exactly what I mean by arm chair pundits. clearly he is doing something right.

 

Attention should also be paid to the fact that playing non stop away from home is not easy. Especially in England the tests come thick and fast. It would be ideal if India have a balanced home and away schedule.

 

I think we are confusing things. Indian team has done admirably. However, I am not sure if anyone knows what Shastri has contributed. But it is clear what he has not. And these are things are related to what a coach should be doing. Team selection is the responsibility of captain and coach - we got it wrong. Adequate match practice - there was almost a disdain for it in South Africa and England. These are things that coach can do something about.

 

If you ask me if Bharat Arun has contributed, then I will say yes because you hear players talking about his influence on their game. Aussies talked about Langer helping their game. I have not heard a single player come out and say Shastri helped them in their technique or mindset. 

 

To begin with, I never blamed Shastri because we lost. There were certain things that he didn't plan and do. Hence, I believe it is fair enough that I don't have to praise him just because we won. If you remember, "follow the process" under Gary Kirsten was a great example of how to give yourself the best chance to win a series. That to me, was the best example of a coach doing a fantastic job and many players came out and rated him highly. 

 

I will happily admit I am wrong if, for example, Pujara comes out tomorrow and credits Shastri for fine-tuning things in his game or helping with his mindset in order to achieve success. Problem is that we have not heard a single player attribute anything to the coach. Very unlikely for a good coach who wants to hog the limelight now (just watch his presser)

 

 

 

Edited by Samcric

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58 minutes ago, Samcric said:

I think we are confusing things. Indian team has done admirably. However, I am not sure if anyone knows what Shastri has contributed. But it is clear what he has not. And these are things are related to what a coach should be doing. Team selection is the responsibility of captain and coach - we got it wrong. Adequate match practice - there was almost a disdain for it in South Africa and England. These are things that coach can do something about.

 

If you ask me if Bharat Arun has contributed, then I will say yes because you hear players talking about his influence on their game. Aussies talked about Langer helping their game. I have not heard a single player come out and say Shastri helped them in their technique or mindset. 

 

To begin with, I never blamed Shastri because we lost. There were certain things that he didn't plan and do. Hence, I believe it is fair enough that I don't have to praise him just because we won. If you remember, "follow the process" under Gary Kirsten was a great example of how to give yourself the best chance to win a series. That to me, was the best example of a coach doing a fantastic job and many players came out and rated him highly. 

 

I will happily admit I am wrong if, for example, Pujara comes out tomorrow and credits Shastri for fine-tuning things in his game or helping with his mindset in order to achieve success. Problem is that we have not heard a single player attribute anything to the coach. Very unlikely for a good coach who wants to hog the limelight now (just watch his presser)

 

 

 

Shastri is responsible for man management. That's more or less it. Probably provides Kohli with tactical advice and gives pep talks to the players. Man management is important but I'm not sure about Shastri's credentials.

 

We have designated coaches for each of the disciplines. 

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39 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

@velu What is Shastri's astro chart like? :hmmm:

 

image.png

 

jupiter transiting 10th house .. damn good for profession/business for atleast for another 10 months

saturn his lucky charm planet in 11th house .. damn good for another 1 year

 

wont be surprised if we win world cup 2019 all because of his kundli :aha: 

@Temujin Khaghan  correct kya ? :hmmmm:

 

 

edit:-

if this is shastris real horoscope , we will do pretty well for another 1 year .. no trolling @Laaloo

 

Edited by velu

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42 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Shastri is responsible for man management. That's more or less it. Probably provides Kohli with tactical advice and gives pep talks to the players. Man management is important but I'm not sure about Shastri's credentials.

 

We have designated coaches for each of the disciplines. 

Man-management is important but surely that is not all that the coach is expected to do? Setting the right processes and getting the right team for different conditions is also Coach's responsibility.

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42 minutes ago, velu said:

 

image.png

 

jupiter transiting 10th house .. damn good for profession/business for atleast for another 10 months

saturn his lucky charm planet in 11th house .. damn good for another 1 year

 

wont be surprised if we win world cup 2019 all because of his kundli :aha: 

@Temujin Khaghan  correct kya ? :hmmmm:

 

 

edit:-

if this is shastris real horoscope , we will do pretty well for another 1 year .. no trolling @Laaloo

 

I hope that is the case but dhoni mangal is the worst we have seen in centuries. Even shastriji won't be able to overcome that :((

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No way should ICF mob say sorry

 

No

No

No

 

They should actually bend over, pull their pants down and let Uncle Ravi has his way as punishment.  Actually no dont do that as 5ft 2 IT geeks here will not see it as punishment but pleasure.  You sick , moaning mo fos!

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7 hours ago, Kannadiga said:

There's nothing funnier than to see your cringe worthy inferiority complex. Again, how many Cricketers did your state Tamil Nadu produce? :lol:

lol Tamil Nadu..hehe 

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2 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

No way should ICF mob say sorry

 

No

No

No

 

They should actually bend over, pull their pants down and let Uncle Ravi has his way as punishment.  Actually no dont do that as 5ft 2 IT geeks here will not see it as punishment but pleasure.  You sick , moaning mo fos!

Weren't you a part of the mob that wanted Pujara out? :phehe:

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Honestly, i think Kohli and Sashtri were emotional in the post-match. What is the problem there, they received a lot of stick but won against Aus in Aus ( toughest test there is outside of India in India for SENA teams - SA does not have the crowd to really make the visitors feel uncomfortable like Aussies do)

 

http://www.bcci.tv/videos/id/7228/proudest-moment-of-my-life-virat-kohli

 

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On 1/6/2019 at 7:21 PM, Clarke said:

This is like that Pant-Tendulkar thread. Some of us provided examples of Vihari being a better bowler than Kumble & Rohit being a better test batsman than Sachin since they have now won in Aus unlike their predecessors.

 

John Buchanan was the biggest example of being at the right place at the right time. Shane Warne himself questioned his weirdness.

 

I also noticed how the torrid 4-1 in Eng is already forgotten by beating this poor Aus side.

In England, we missed our two premier bowlers in bk and Bumrah for first two tests. 

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On 1/6/2019 at 9:36 PM, putrevus said:

Shastri has been good, he has looked to win, he gave debut to Bumrah.His batsmen have  let him down big time especially openers who have been nothing but tailenders.

 

This Indian team has become brave and is willing to lose in order to win. They need to keep doing the same things they will win everywhere.Selectors also need to come to party they have been awful.

So what has Shastri done

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1 hour ago, Kannadiga said:

Ahh the flag bearer of Tamilians. Next which North Indian your people are going to adapt next? :phehe:

Far better than conceding a whole city to North Indians. Bengaluru is already awash with north indians and RCB is led by north indian Kohli. Atleast our kaptan wins trophies in IPL :phehe:

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24 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Far better than conceding a whole city to North Indians. Bengaluru is already awash with north indians and RCB is led by north indian Kohli. Atleast our kaptan wins trophies in IPL :phehe:

If I have to make a suggestion for your next adaption, why not our very own Mod @Laaloo

He will make a fine replacement and also a huge fan of CSK :lol:

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2 hours ago, Kannadiga said:

Ahh the flag bearer of Tamilians. Next which North Indian your people are going to adapt next? :phehe:

Anyone who comes to the state and does well gets adopted there. You can go and try too. Its a democracy and its part of Indian ethos.

Edited by Vilander

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Shastri is so embarrassing.

 

Irrespective of his cricket coaching qualities (which he doesn't have much anyway), how can the most popular and biggest international cricket team in the world have such an unnecessarily boisterous and immature man as the coach?

 

As an Indian cricket fan, I (and guess most of us) cringe every time he opens his mouth.

 

 

Some cringe moments from his recent press conference ...


 

Quote

 

There was the usual combative reaction to criticism - Shastri took another potshot at Sunil Gavaskar's criticism, calling his shots "blanks" that are "blown away like a tracer bullet" by the time they reach the southern hemisphere.

 

Shastri, though, continued to be caustic. He was asked if he would like to share this success with captains who - from Lala Amarnath to MS Dhoni - tried their best to win in Australia but couldn't. "Past is history, future is a mystery," Shastri said.

 

I said in Melbourne - I think I mentioned people taking pot shots and firing blanks. I wasn't joking there, because I knew how hard this team had worked. When you fire from there, by the time it crosses the southern hemisphere, it's blown away by the wind like a tracer bullet. But lead with something in it can be pretty serious. 

 

"This is not a team of gods or demigods, seniors or juniors. This is an Indian cricket team that will jump over a cliff to win a match for the country."

 

This team now has an identity to look at any other Indian team from the past in the eye and say, 'We play proper Test match cricket. You did, we did too,' without being intimidated."

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kannadiga said:

If I have to make a suggestion for your next adaption, why not our very own Mod @Laaloo

He will make a fine replacement and also a huge fan of CSK :lol:

Avoiding the topic. Fair enough for a kannadiga :phehe: How's your support for Sir KLR Richards going

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3 hours ago, putrevus said:


What would you do?


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Irrespective what would i have done or not, Shastri is literally sleep-walking his tenure as a coach. 

Edited by rkt.india

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14 hours ago, Singh bling said:

First test cricket fans should say sorry to IPL. When India lost 4-0 in England and Australia they were screaming that IPL destroyed test cricket.

honestly you have this section of Indians who basically shoot down anything aspirational. If Ravi shastri did fcuk all and spoke elegantly in a suit at press conferences etc they would not be so vitriolic in their ridicule. Some people just cant hack that Shastri cannot conform to their ideas of civility and smartness.

 

Even as a commentator, the educated middle class (who form the bulk of posters on this forum) ridicule Shastri phrases "like a tracer bullet". But his key demographic the emerging middle class and lower middle classes/poor  in India who dont speak and write fluently love these phrases.

 

On the whole IPL thing as well, its not as if India had an amazing record overseas before the IPL. Our win loss ratio is epic this decade and has improved on last decade. If anything since the IPL the number of boring draws seem to have come to an end. Coincidence? I think not. 

 

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Irrespective what i have done or not, Shastri is literally sleep-walking his tenure as a coach. 

That’s easy to say when you have nothing to add.Unless you have something to add , Shastri wins.


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16 minutes ago, putrevus said:


That’s easy to say when you have nothing to add.Unless you have something to add , Shastri wins.


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There is no management in Shashtri regime.   

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On 1/7/2019 at 3:58 PM, Samcric said:

I think we are confusing things. Indian team has done admirably. However, I am not sure if anyone knows what Shastri has contributed. But it is clear what he has not. And these are things are related to what a coach should be doing. Team selection is the responsibility of captain and coach - we got it wrong. Adequate match practice - there was almost a disdain for it in South Africa and England. These are things that coach can do something about.

 

If you ask me if Bharat Arun has contributed, then I will say yes because you hear players talking about his influence on their game. Aussies talked about Langer helping their game. I have not heard a single player come out and say Shastri helped them in their technique or mindset. 

 

To begin with, I never blamed Shastri because we lost. There were certain things that he didn't plan and do. Hence, I believe it is fair enough that I don't have to praise him just because we won. If you remember, "follow the process" under Gary Kirsten was a great example of how to give yourself the best chance to win a series. That to me, was the best example of a coach doing a fantastic job and many players came out and rated him highly. 

 

I will happily admit I am wrong if, for example, Pujara comes out tomorrow and credits Shastri for fine-tuning things in his game or helping with his mindset in order to achieve success. Problem is that we have not heard a single player attribute anything to the coach. Very unlikely for a good coach who wants to hog the limelight now (just watch his presser)

 

 

 

What’s been Shastri’s contribution to the team? The setting, with Shastri sitting beside him, wasn’t ideal but it still was interesting to hear his response.

“The contribution he has made is that making people believe that they belong to this level, because at a time when we all went through the difficult period, 2014 for me, and for a lot of other players Shikhar Dhawan in 2015 , to be able to come out of that shell, I can vouch for that, to bring the best out of the players, he is the most important factor,” Kohli warmed up.

In 2014, Kohli had a horror tour of England, sorted out by James Anderson. His technique was exposed, as he struggled to handle the swing and the movement, repeatedly edging to the slip cordon. Former players like Sanjay Manjrekar had blasted Kohli: “Give Virat one more Test … just to be sure he doesn’t belong here,” Manjrekar had tweeted in January 2012. It wasn’t just Manjrekar who had a go then, many did but his tweet best captures the extreme side of the criticism.

We don’t know what mental space Kohli was in those times but by the look of things, it wasn’t all that great.
“I have made more changes to my game listening to him than anyone else in the past,” Kohli said on Thursday. Some of the changes have proved successful. It was on Shastri’s urging that Kohli started to stand outside the crease, a move that helped him counter the swing. It wasn’t easy move – that’s why we didn’t see many other Indian batsmen, if any, do that but Kohli had the self-confidence to follow the suggestion. It was on Shastri’s advice that Kohli started at times taking the off-stump guard almost to Anderson in England during the tour couple of months back.

 

Shastri’s imprints on technical side was also seen on players other than Kohli during the tour. Though Cheteshwar Pujara had sorted the problem himself, he had got a validation of it when Shastri’s imprints on technical side was also seen on players other than Kohli during the tour. Though Cheteshwar Pujara had sorted the problem himself, he had got a validation of it when Shastri too came up with the same suggestion – of standing more upright in the stance. It was felt that he was crouching a bit too much and it had led to problems in English conditions. Time and again, he was seen chatting with the other batsmen, advising them on other changes.

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/is-shastri-a-yes-man-no-says-virat-kohli-5448868/

 

Does sound a decent amount of work. Shastri's biggest issue has been with team selections and what feels like from outside inability at time to guide Kohli in the right direction.

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5 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

 

 

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/is-shastri-a-yes-man-no-says-virat-kohli-5448868/

 

Does sound a decent amount of work. Shastri's biggest issue has been with team selections and what feels like from outside inability at time to guide Kohli in the right direction.

Thanks, that is enlightening. 

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22 hours ago, Vilander said:

Anyone who comes to the state and does well gets adopted there. You can go and try too. Its a democracy and its part of Indian ethos.

So the prerequisite, here, is the person has to do well for the state. Even so I don't think not many will be lining up to take up your offer and settle in Tamilnadu :phehe:

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This guy know thing or two about batting and also he is good communicator.

He is guy who advised Sachin to pull Shane Warne in 1998. He might be boisterous and sound shallow sometimes but I don’t think he would have lasted this long if he didn’t have anything to add.


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say what you will, he's overseeing a squad that's changing the Indian cricket landscape, potentially forever (mostly on the back of Kohli's hard work). If he's facilitating Kohli to be his best, that's good enough. Too many cooks spoil the broth, hence no need for headmaster like Kumble types with a captain like Kohli. Will create more problems than solutions. 

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9 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

say what you will, he's overseeing a squad that's changing the Indian cricket landscape, potentially forever (mostly on the back of Kohli's hard work). If he's facilitating Kohli to be his best, that's good enough. Too many cooks spoil the broth, hence no need for headmaster like Kumble types with a captain like Kohli. Will create more problems than solutions. 

 

if two people have totally different approach and none are flexible enough to accommodate other , things wont work out like kohli and kumble ..

dada and john wright combo worked well for us , but not dada and chappell    

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On 1/8/2019 at 4:14 PM, rkt.india said:

There is no management in Shashtri regime.   

 

That can't be the case.

 

We have a very fit and focused fast bowling unit in test matches,  our overall fitness is very good,  our ground fielding is very good,  we have introduced 2 wrist spinners in LOIs removing veteran spinners and we are the No.1 test team for a long time.

 

All these are big steps in the right direction.

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9 hours ago, Kannadiga said:

So the prerequisite, here, is the person has to do well for the state. Even so I don't think not many will be lining up to take up your offer and settle in Tamilnadu :phehe:

Since you are a kannadiga, you should know that the greatest batsman to come from KTK is actually a Maharashtrian :phehe:. Some say Dravid is a Tamil Iyengar name but who knows. He and other KTK players of his generation played for India cements in Chennai (yes Srini's company :phehe:). Srini gave a salary to cricketers who were not paid well by the state association at that time. A lot of KTK players like Dodda Ganesh, David johnson, Venky Prasad were picked because of Gundappa Viswanath who was head of BCCI at the time.

 

And BTW there were players who represented TN in the past and present. Venkataraghavan, Sivaramakrishnan, Srikkanth, Balaji and now Vijay, Ashwin, and Karthik. Your stadium is named after M Chinnaswamy who was Tamil. So much for Kannadiga pride :hysterical: what happened to KLRahul Richards cant find a run anywhere :laugh: Mayank Aggarwal is a northie. Karun nair is a mallu. LOL

 

You seem to be full of yourself here. You are a throwback to all the regional division within cricket.

Edited by Real McCoy

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35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

That can't be the case.

 

We have a very fit and focused fast bowling unit in test matches,  our overall fitness is very good,  our ground fielding is very good,  we have introduced 2 wrist spinners in LOIs removing veteran spinners and we are the No.1 test team for a long time.

 

All these are big steps in the right direction.

Shhhh. Dont say it loud. Bharat Arun will be fired for doing "Not Approved" things. Our bowlers are not complaining about holidays, familytime and spouse on overseas trip.

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13 hours ago, Kannadiga said:

So the prerequisite, here, is the person has to do well for the state. Even so I don't think not many will be lining up to take up your offer and settle in Tamilnadu :phehe:

well it is what it is, TN is open to other Indians coming in and succeeding, they treat them as their own its natural..there are too many cases, lot or Kannadigas too , jaya, Arjun Sarja, Prakash rai the list goes on and on.

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