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Should ICF arm chair pundits say sorry to Shastri?


G_B_

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12 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

Shashtri jee was revolutionary to Indian cricket. His insight was so helpful that he lead us to first ever series win in Australia. One liners like "Go out and smash them" and allowing players to skip practice to play Fifa on PS4 had a deep impact on the players. He is like father figure to that Indian team. I kindly request Indian GOVT to get rid of Gandhi jee and re print every single note with shashtri jee' s face on it.  It will encourage young generation to well in their life. 

 

Peace and love..  Ram ram ram ram 

 

 

You forgot that we won because he was able to pull off the greatest miracle ever of putting his goti in his muh.

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11 hours ago, G_B_ said:

All I am saying is Shastri does not deserve the level of ridicule and hate he gets on ICF

 

Nobody is suggesting he is a super coach 

 

 

 

 

he deserves greater ridicule- 

mayank should have been in from game one

rohit should have been out from game one 

unmesh selection cost us a match - needed fresh pacer like siraj

 

shastri got lucky that pujara produced his best -his defence was better than Dravid . 

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6 minutes ago, Kannadiga said:

It was under Kumble that we reached our peak as a no.1 team. Any team who loses to this weak Australian team shouldn't deserve #1 tag and I don't think we would've lost even a single Test match under Kumble in this series. 

lol here we go. An other state/region oriented poster you can find many from Karnataka. There is a bugger in cricbuzz comments section who states 'pujara and Mayank Agarwal from Karnataka won the series. lol wtf is wrong with these people man why so *ing regional.

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17 hours ago, express bowling said:

In a professional set-up  ...  

 

Anyone who delivers results deserves praise. The same applies to Shastri.  

 

Similarly,  anyone who cannot deliver results needs to be held accountable. 

 

A big praise for Shastri  for winning in Australia.  Well done  !

And he should be held accountable for the losses in South Africa and England.

To me, process and preparation is the most important part of a coach. He needs to ensure he is advising the captain on the best possible team combination for a match (bewda failed in that) and adequate preparation ahead of a series via practice matches (failed again). If anything, Australia proved what could and should have been achieved. For the kind of money he is paid and resources at his disposal, he hasn't done the team any favours and needs to answer for lack of preparation and random team selection. Results may vary. You may be the best coach but if you coach Zimbabwe, you will end up losing in say India. Results are not always the best representation of how well you have performed your duties as a coach.

Edited by Samcric
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30 minutes ago, Samcric said:

To me, process and preparation is the most important part of a coach. He needs to ensure he is advising the captain on the best possible team combination for a match (bewda failed in that) and adequate preparation ahead of a series via practice matches (failed again). If anything, Australia proved what could and should have been achieved. For the kind of money he is paid and resources at his disposal, he hasn't done the team any favours and needs to answer for lack of preparation and random team selection. Results may vary. You may be the best coach but if you coach Zimbabwe, you will end up losing in say India. Results are not always the best representation of how well you have performed your duties as a coach.

 

While I agree with the basic principles you have outlined above,  a few issues need expansion.

 

1)  Defeating Australia in Australia is a big deal and a tough ask.  So,  quite a few things must have been done right on this tour.

 

2)  Not having enough practice games is partly due to the itinerary forced on this team. 

 

Yes, they cancelled the sole 2-day practice game in SA and reduced the only practice game in England ... but that looked like Kohli's decision to me.  He said rather forcefully that he did not think that practice matches against weak teams would help them.

 

3)  Not sure whether Kohli takes or took his advice, or any other coach's advice, on all issues.  This point is partly reflected in the above point.

 

4)  They did learn to some extent from the mistakes of earlier tours. 

--  Team selection was mostly ok, barring the 2nd test in Perth, where no spinner was selected.

--  The middle order batters, wicket keeper and pacers were allowed to settle down and given full series in fixed positions.

--  The practice match was not reduced for a change.   :phehe:     The tight itinerary did not allow for more practice matches.

--  Buddy Dhawan was scrapped at last.

--  Groomed new opener Shaw before the test series.  Unfortunately, he got injured. Then another new opener was brought in.

 

5)  Developing a potent pace trio for test matches and allowing them to settle down ...  Shastri, Kohli and Arun ... all deserve a lot of credit for this.  

--  Bumrah, the LOI specialist, was debuted in tests without any recent FC exploits or games. Courageous decision to play him straight in SA and back him.

--  Ishant's career has been resurrected. 

--  Shami was not rejected after the kind of personal troubles he faced. This requires a good man manager, and Shastri is one.

 

 

So  I said ...

 

Congratulate Shastri for learning from past mistakes to some extent on this tour,  better team selections and delivering results in Australia.

 

And hold him responsible for poor preparations and random team selections in SA and England.  He must still be asked why he did these on earlier tours.

 

 

 

 

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Look this historic win doesn't invalidate the earlier puzzling team selections and lack of improvement in players. Bowlers have shown a great improvement, but why shouldn't we ask why have batsmen like Rahul and Rahane have regressed so much with the same technical weaknesses coming up repeatedly? Why has the catching remained poor?

 

What about the continued baffling selections in shorter formats? Who will take the blame for those goofups?

 

Being the coach, he will obviously get the credit due to him, but that does not mean we did not perform poorly in SA and England.

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If India had won more tosses in SA and England the results (especially in SA) would have been different.

 

We need to maybe acknowledge that India is at a stage where they win (or dont lose) matches anywhere when they win the toss. 

 

People on this thread saying, what has Shastri done? Are they privy to information what happens behind the scenes? This is exactly what I mean by arm chair pundits. clearly he is doing something right.

 

Attention should also be paid to the fact that playing non stop away from home is not easy. Especially in England the tests come thick and fast. It would be ideal if India have a balanced home and away schedule.

 

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What man. We are saying result of series is decided on toss of a coin. 

We could have easily won series in England ,Africa and Australia if Chepu played all the games and Kumble or his likes were there to stop Kohli maintaining A+  BCCI contractual pay grade of his mates and Bunty's Bunny.

 

After Gavaskar gave that interview, where he asked for accountabilty, It seemed Kohli and Shashtri realised, BCCI will act.

Gavaskars words carry a lot of weight. No pooh poohing to his words

 

 

Edited by mishra
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56 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

If India had won more tosses in SA and England the results (especially in SA) would have been different.

 

We need to maybe acknowledge that India is at a stage where they win (or dont lose) matches anywhere when they win the toss. 

 

People on this thread saying, what has Shastri done? Are they privy to information what happens behind the scenes? This is exactly what I mean by arm chair pundits. clearly he is doing something right.

 

Attention should also be paid to the fact that playing non stop away from home is not easy. Especially in England the tests come thick and fast. It would be ideal if India have a balanced home and away schedule.

 

I think we are confusing things. Indian team has done admirably. However, I am not sure if anyone knows what Shastri has contributed. But it is clear what he has not. And these are things are related to what a coach should be doing. Team selection is the responsibility of captain and coach - we got it wrong. Adequate match practice - there was almost a disdain for it in South Africa and England. These are things that coach can do something about.

 

If you ask me if Bharat Arun has contributed, then I will say yes because you hear players talking about his influence on their game. Aussies talked about Langer helping their game. I have not heard a single player come out and say Shastri helped them in their technique or mindset. 

 

To begin with, I never blamed Shastri because we lost. There were certain things that he didn't plan and do. Hence, I believe it is fair enough that I don't have to praise him just because we won. If you remember, "follow the process" under Gary Kirsten was a great example of how to give yourself the best chance to win a series. That to me, was the best example of a coach doing a fantastic job and many players came out and rated him highly. 

 

I will happily admit I am wrong if, for example, Pujara comes out tomorrow and credits Shastri for fine-tuning things in his game or helping with his mindset in order to achieve success. Problem is that we have not heard a single player attribute anything to the coach. Very unlikely for a good coach who wants to hog the limelight now (just watch his presser)

 

 

 

Edited by Samcric
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58 minutes ago, Samcric said:

I think we are confusing things. Indian team has done admirably. However, I am not sure if anyone knows what Shastri has contributed. But it is clear what he has not. And these are things are related to what a coach should be doing. Team selection is the responsibility of captain and coach - we got it wrong. Adequate match practice - there was almost a disdain for it in South Africa and England. These are things that coach can do something about.

 

If you ask me if Bharat Arun has contributed, then I will say yes because you hear players talking about his influence on their game. Aussies talked about Langer helping their game. I have not heard a single player come out and say Shastri helped them in their technique or mindset. 

 

To begin with, I never blamed Shastri because we lost. There were certain things that he didn't plan and do. Hence, I believe it is fair enough that I don't have to praise him just because we won. If you remember, "follow the process" under Gary Kirsten was a great example of how to give yourself the best chance to win a series. That to me, was the best example of a coach doing a fantastic job and many players came out and rated him highly. 

 

I will happily admit I am wrong if, for example, Pujara comes out tomorrow and credits Shastri for fine-tuning things in his game or helping with his mindset in order to achieve success. Problem is that we have not heard a single player attribute anything to the coach. Very unlikely for a good coach who wants to hog the limelight now (just watch his presser)

 

 

 

Shastri is responsible for man management. That's more or less it. Probably provides Kohli with tactical advice and gives pep talks to the players. Man management is important but I'm not sure about Shastri's credentials.

 

We have designated coaches for each of the disciplines. 

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39 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

@velu What is Shastri's astro chart like? :hmmm:

 

image.png

 

jupiter transiting 10th house .. damn good for profession/business for atleast for another 10 months

saturn his lucky charm planet in 11th house .. damn good for another 1 year

 

wont be surprised if we win world cup 2019 all because of his kundli :aha: 

@Temujin Khaghan  correct kya ? :hmmmm:

 

 

edit:-

if this is shastris real horoscope , we will do pretty well for another 1 year .. no trolling @Laaloo

 

Edited by velu
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42 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Shastri is responsible for man management. That's more or less it. Probably provides Kohli with tactical advice and gives pep talks to the players. Man management is important but I'm not sure about Shastri's credentials.

 

We have designated coaches for each of the disciplines. 

Man-management is important but surely that is not all that the coach is expected to do? Setting the right processes and getting the right team for different conditions is also Coach's responsibility.

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42 minutes ago, velu said:

 

image.png

 

jupiter transiting 10th house .. damn good for profession/business for atleast for another 10 months

saturn his lucky charm planet in 11th house .. damn good for another 1 year

 

wont be surprised if we win world cup 2019 all because of his kundli :aha: 

@Temujin Khaghan  correct kya ? :hmmmm:

 

 

edit:-

if this is shastris real horoscope , we will do pretty well for another 1 year .. no trolling @Laaloo

 

I hope that is the case but dhoni mangal is the worst we have seen in centuries. Even shastriji won't be able to overcome that :((

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