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SRT100

Indian Team (vs Aust) of 03/04 V Indian Team (vs Aust) of 18/19

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Which team would win if they played each other in the form they were in at Sydney in the respective years.

 

I am going to controversially say that the Indian team of 2004 was superior.

 

 

Sydney 2004 Test Team

 

Chopra

Sehwag

Dravid

Tendulkar

Laxman

Ganguly

Patel

Agarkar

Pathan 

Kumble,

Kartik

 

Sydney 2019 Test Team

 

Agarwal

KL

Pujara

Kohli

Rahane

Vihari

Pant

Jadeja

Kuldeep

Shami

Bumrah

 

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  • From 2004 side, I would pick Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly and Kumble (6 players), who were supported by Chopra+PP+Agarkar+Irfan 
  • From the 2019 team, I would pick Agarwal, Pujara, Kohli, Pant, Kuldeep, Shami and Bumrah (7 players), who were supported by Jadeja 

 

Edited by zen

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3 hours ago, SRT100 said:

Which team would win if they played each other in the form they were in at Sydney in the respective years.

 

I am going to controversially say that the Indian team of 2004 was superior.

 

 

Sydney 2004 Test Team

 

Chopra

Sehwag

Dravid

Tendulkar

Laxman

Ganguly

Patel

Agarkar

Pathan 

Kumble,

Kartik

 

Sydney 2019 Test Team

 

Agarwal

KL

Pujara

Kohli

Rahane

Vihari

Pant

Jadeja

Kuldeep

Shami

Bumrah

 

Best combined team would be (based on "current" form in Australia at the time they played.

 

Definitely would play 2 walls. Pujara and Dravid.

 

Agarwal

Sehwag

Pujara

Tendulkar

Dravid

Laxman

Pant

Kumble

Kuldeep

Pathan

Bumrah

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We'll see about that in 2 years time, when Aus should field a better team. Virat has done wonders to the team, in terms of results. But I still don't see those game changing decisions that the likes of Clive Lloyd of Alan Border took, on the field. Tactically Virat can do better, same goes for team selection.

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8 hours ago, SRT100 said:

Best combined team would be (based on "current" form in Australia at the time they played.

 

Definitely would play 2 walls. Pujara and Dravid.

 

Agarwal

Sehwag

Pujara

Tendulkar

Dravid

Laxman

Pant

Kumble

Kuldeep

Pathan

Bumrah

No one will take Pathan over Shami?

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5 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

2004 better batting 

 

2018 better bowling 

 

But key difference was that the Aussie team in 2004 was atg 

With a bowling attack of Gillespie, Bracken, Kasprowicz and MacGill? Batting line up was ATG, bowling was average.

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2003-04 bowling was pretty much a one man show - kumble and 1 or 2 spells by zak who got injured and then agarkar who was very inconsistent and his wkts adeilade was also due to opp aggression to win 

and not to forget they had a keeper who dropped many catches 

Irfan was new so wud have been ok not damaging 

 

This lineup has bowling but that lineup had batting to get in draws .....

 

So it will either be 2018-19 side win or draw coz 2003-04 side didnt have the bowling to win or atleast one man cudnt win it. Kohli, pujara and even rahane wud have played kumble better 

 

The only way 2003-04 team wud win is by making current team bat last and piling on runs which they were capable of with laxman in subliime form in that series and sehwag as x-factor .  So i expect them to atleast win one of the games 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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5 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

With a bowling attack of Gillespie, Bracken, Kasprowicz and MacGill? Batting line up was ATG, bowling was average.

This current Aus pace attack was over-hyped as hell, they had worse numbers last years than any other top 5 or 6 test nation, just have a look at worldwide stats!

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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/25718136/how-good-year-was-2018-bowlers-test-cricket

 

Needless to say they were "unchi dukan pheeke pakwan" :cantstop:

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1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

This current Aus pace attack was over-hyped as hell, they had worse numbers last years than any other top 5 or 6 test nation, just have a look at worldwide stats!

1170598_600x324.png

1170602_600x323.png

1170601_610x377.png

1170596_600x454.png

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/25718136/how-good-year-was-2018-bowlers-test-cricket

 

Needless to say they were "unchi dukan pheeke pakwan" :cantstop:

Them being overhyped does not make the attack of Gillespie, Kasprowicz, Bracken and Macgill an ATG attack.

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No it doesn't but on pitches, not all but at least a couple, that were conducive for pace & spin, how do their numbers stack against that attack on absolute roads? Needless to say your argument doesn't work if/when you're making a case for this Aus attack to be called anything other than overrated.

Edited by R!TTER

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Just now, R!TTER said:

No it doesn't but on pitches, not all but at least a couple, that were conducive for pace & spin, how do their numbers attack against that attack on absolute roads? Needless to say your argument doesn't work when/if you're making a case for this Aus attack to be called anything other than overrated.

Read that post again, I am not even talking about the current attack!

 

On comparisons, you look at performances  of bowlers in a particular year and not their overall careers? 

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Based on Starc's entire career he is sh!t, & that's being generous! He has 1 great series against minnows SL, albeit in SL, he destroyed Eng at home (sandpaper effect?) & that's all. None of the 4 bowlers in this attack are better than the attack you're comparing in that series individually, possibly with the exception of Cummins.

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1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Based on Starc's entire career he is sh!t, & that's being generous! He has 1 great series against minnows SL, albeit in SL, he destroyed Eng at home (sandpaper effect?) & that's all. None of the 4 bowlers in this attack are better than the attack you're comparing in that series individually, possibly with the exception of Cummins.

Kasprowicz with a career average of 33, Bracken with 42 and Brad WIlliams with 45 are better bowlers than guys averaging 28 and 26. Not worth debating further.

 

I concede, all those guys were ATG bowlers as you say.

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See thats what happens when you jump into discussions and start shooting off. Discussion was about the Aussies bowling attack of 2003-04 series being ATG. Who were the Aussie bowlers in that series - Lee (career average 31), Gillespie (27), Kasprowicz (33), Bracken (42), Williams (45) and Macgill (29).

 

You then got the current attack into it and use their performance this year to prove they are worse (which was not even being discussed). Anyways, for comparison purposes, this attack has Starc (29), Hazlewood (26), Cummins (24) and Lyon (32). Enough spoon feeding. Now read your responses again before jumping around.

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I am comparing the best 4 from that attack to the best 4 in this, you somehow remember the worst of them & then compare to this overrated attack?

 

Spoon feeding me, wow you've some over-inflated opinion of yourself! This attack was outperformed by every other attack either away or home+away by the top 5 test nations in the past 3 years! Yet you can't see the blindingly obvious? If this attack is so great why didn't they force India to collapse more than once, in Perth, on more helpful tracks? You're also forgetting this is the probably the second worst batting, from Ind, lineup visiting Aus in the last 20 odd years. The one in 2004 was arguably the best, even better than some of Eng/SA at their peak.

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The current Indian team has a bowling line up which is miles better than the 2004 one ,I think that team would win the series had they too won the toss in 3 occasions ,most likely 2-1 including a full test in Sydney. this team would have won 3-1 but for rain in Sydney .

Tbh the 2007-08 Indian team was better balanced than 2003 due to better Pacers especially a fit zak and a batting line up much better than the current lot.

The 2007 Australian side was a ruthless one and on a 16 match winning streak ,Lee,stuart Clarke were in great form and batting too was deep 

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

I doubt it, Gillespsie is not better than the three fast bowlers on current team. Lyonis 100 times better than Mcgill.

GIllespie is miles ahead of Starc and similar level at Hazelwood.

 

100 times better than McGill. That's just random statement.

 

Better avg, better SR, Same no of 5-fers in less matches. On what basis Lyon is 100 times better. Lyon has DRS advantage and more spin friendly pitches in Aus and poor batsmen of spin.

 

McGill is 100 times better than Lyon.

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10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

GIllespie is miles ahead of Starc and similar level at Hazelwood.

 

100 times better than McGill. That's just random statement.

 

Better avg, better SR, Same no of 5-fers in less matches. On what basis Lyon is 100 times better. Lyon has DRS advantage and more spin friendly pitches in Aus and poor batsmen of spin.

 

McGill is 100 times better than Lyon.

How is he miles ahead of Starc, Starc in 49 tests has more 5fers and also more 10fers.Jason had Mcgrath and Warne at the other end to support him.

 

We all saw how good he was he 2003-04 without Mcgrath and Warne.He took 10 wickets @ 37.10. He was good support bowler where as Starc is lead bowler.

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14 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How is he miles ahead of Starc, Starc in 49 tests has more 5fers and also more 10fers.Jason had Mcgrath and Warne at the other end to support him.

 

We all saw how good he was he 2003-04 without Mcgrath and Warne.He took 10 wickets @ 37.10. He was good support bowler where as Starc is lead bowler.

Starc is nothing without sandpaper. He is at Ishant  Sharma v1 level.

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1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Starc is nothing without sandpaper. He is at Ishant  Sharma v1 level.

Hehe that is so easy to say now, he still had better stats than Jason's 2003-04 series.Starc is 100 times better than Ishant with or without sandpaper.

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49 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Hehe that is so easy to say now, he still had better stats than Jason's 2003-04 series.Starc is 100 times better than Ishant with or without sandpaper.

Ishant can outbowl Starc in most of the countries.

 

Gillespie avg 26 and Starc 29 for a reason.

 

Gillespie avg 37 with McGrath and Warns.

 

Starc avg 46 without sandpaper. Bowler who took 9 wickets with sandpaper suddenly became mediocre even on bowling friendly pitches. He was worst pacer of 6 from both sides in recent series

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1 minute ago, Laaloo said:

That Australian team had a batting lineup of

Langer

Hayden

Ponting

Martyn

Waugh

Katich

Gilly

 

 

Their worst batsman was katich who would probably be the best batsman in the 2018 test series for Aus.

 

Add 2 bowlers.

 

9 players from that would walk into current Aus team.

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19 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Ishant can outbowl Starc in most of the countries.

 

Gillespie avg 26 and Starc 29 for a reason.

 

Gillespie avg 37 with McGrath and Warns.

 

Starc avg 46 without sandpaper. Bowler who took 9 wickets with sandpaper suddenly became mediocre even on bowling friendly pitches. He was worst pacer of 6 from both sides in recent series

How much did Starc average this series again???? Even Jason would take Starc over himself.

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4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How much did Starc average this series again???? Even Jason would take Starc over himself.

35 on bowling friendly pitches and against weak batting.

 

Even Starc would take Jason over himself.

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On 1/9/2019 at 6:49 AM, Trichromatic said:

McGill avg 29

Lyon 32

lyon has become very good in the past few yrs. mcgill declined towards the end, both stats-wise and bowling-wise (2007-08). on the whole, having seen enough of both, I definitely rate mcgill as the better all-conditions wkt taking threat.

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