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India’s 2-1 win in Australia is not the best triumph overseas, feels Sanjay Manjrekar


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10 hours ago, zen said:

For Manjrekar, growing up in 70s would have liked the the wins in WI and Eng. And those were terrific wins by Ind, which even used to find it hard to beat Zim in Zim despite having some of the its best batsmen playing 

An overseas win on a spinning track in WI cant be called greatest.  our weakness has always been fast bowling and when our fast bowlers out bowl opposition's fats bowlers at their home and win the series then that is what we dream of.  There is a reason we never won in Australia before, not even in 80s when they were quite weak and were rebuilding as spin hardly played a part there in the past and we lacked the fast bowlers. .

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Sanju Manju gets a lot of flak on ICF and justifiably so, he is an insufferable ass clown. But what has he said wrong here? He isn't demeaning Indian cricket, in fact he is rewinding memories and paying tribute to our past. Indian cricket didn't start overseas tours post Kohli era, there is some great history associated and our cricketers have achieved serious stuff in the past. Not that I expect the Kohli cult to get it, but current rockstars stand on the shoulders of giants, giants who paved the way for a better future for Indian cricket.

 

Kids, new fans and Kohli cultists may jizz over this series result, carry on. Some oldie would have followed the 1980-81 Aus tour with keen interest and may even rate it higher who knows, all a matter of perspective. And when I look at the teams fielded, Chappell's Aussies look legit scary and the MCG victory which saw one of the greatest 100s by a legendary Indian batsman and one of the all time greatest bowling spells by our greatest fast bowler....epic stuff. I wasn't born then but doesn't mean I can't appreciate the significance of such an achievement in the home umpire era when convicts fielded 13 men and were nasty both on and off field. 

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11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Biggest achievement overseas: SA 2010/11, battle for the top spot. Collectively those 2 teams fielded 5-6 ATGs and 10-11 national greats. 

 

Biggest win overseas: England 1971, they were number 1 team then and fielded many greats. In the lead up to that series they were undefeated at home for a few years, Aus/WI/Pak/NZ all toured and failed. We went with a spin heavy attack and won. 

Also that WI attack was rubbish. They had no good fast bowler in that series and as a result most of the tests were drawn.  Even Sobers was 35 years old and retired 2 years after that.  That series is known for batting marathons.  5 batsmen scored over 400 runs in that series.  highest wicket taker Venkat averaged 33, Bedi 43, Prasanna 37.  West Indian highest wicket taker was also a spinner averaged 30.  Sobers had 12 wickets in 5 tests.  

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7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

An overseas win on a spinning track in WI cant be called greatest.  our weakness has always been fast bowling and when our fast bowlers out bowl opposition's fats bowlers at their home and win the series then that is what we dream of.  There is a reason we never won in Australia before, not even in 80s when they were quite weak and were rebuilding as spin hardly played a part there in the past and we lacked the fast bowlers. .

We didn't win in the 80s because of rain and some patriotic umpiring and I can't stress the umpiring part enough. 

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17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Biggest achievement overseas: SA 2010/11, battle for the top spot. Collectively those 2 teams fielded 5-6 ATGs and 10-11 national greats. 

 

Biggest win overseas: England 1971, they were number 1 team then and fielded many greats. In the lead up to that series they were undefeated at home for a few years, Aus/WI/Pak/NZ all toured and failed. We went with a spin heavy attack and won. 

Dont think a drawn series cant triumph over a won series. About, 1971 for us fans, its all about anecdotes now but i have heard stories about Ind being lucky with weather in the previous tests matches but yeah Ind winning at that time must have been huge. 

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40 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Point out where I am factually wrong, what has my post got to do with self loathing? It is a fact that we have done better in Oz in the past against much stronger teams, even if results column don't show. This team is also lucky it has DRS, we got robbed so many times there in the past because of their convict umpires. 

done better without winning. how is that even possible?

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6 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Dont think a drawn series cant triumph over a won series. About, 1971 for us fans, its all about anecdotes now but i have heard stories about Ind being lucky with weather in the previous tests matches but yeah Ind winning at that time must have been huge. 

WI also was at its weakest in terms of bowling in that series like Australia now is at its weakest in terms of batting.

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51 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

stop being a self loather. I am also not sure what would have happen if Smith and Warner was playing, however beating Aus in Aus is always a big achievement. 

Aus lost to SA in SA after a long time despite Smith and Warner playing, so, it is not impossible as both are pretty much FTBs.

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14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Also that WI attack was rubbish. They had no good fast bowler in that series and as a result most of the tests were drawn.  Even Sobers was 35 years old and retired 2 years after that.  That series is known for batting marathons.  5 batsmen scored over 400 runs in that series.  highest wicket taker Venkat averaged 33, Bedi 43, Prasanna 37.  West Indian highest wicket taker was also a spinner averaged 30.  Sobers had 12 wickets in 5 tests.  

If that WI bowling attack is rubbish, what does it make the current OZ batting? Maha rubbish? That WI batting still had 3 ATGs in Sobers, Kanhai, Lloyd...and Roy Fredericks was the trailblazer of that era. Moreover home umpires made them even more formidable, they refused to give Sobers out that series.

 

In 1972 Sobers annihilated Australia at MCG in the Aus-ROTW series, giving special treatment to Lillee who was at the peak of his powers. So age argument is not valid. Enjoy!!!

 

Edited by Gollum
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14 hours ago, Switchblade said:

 

Infact, i have heard form my uncle that initial test wins (could be what manju is mentioning here) have made this country cricket crazy....

Infact, football was as popular as cricket back then, if not more....

These wins made us cricket crazy nation....otherwise we would have been football crazy nation...

Not 100% sure but this si what i heard as a kid...

May be someone here confirm this..

 

If it is true, then what manju is saying is absolutely true

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12 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Dont think a drawn series cant triumph over a won series. About, 1971 for us fans, its all about anecdotes now but i have heard stories about Ind being lucky with weather in the previous tests matches but yeah Ind winning at that time must have been huge. 

 

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

done better without winning. how is that even possible?

I have a different opinion in this matter.....draws vs wins argument. 

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6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

If that WI bowling attack is rubbish, what does it make the current OZ batting? Maha rubbish? That WI batting still had 3 ATGs in Sobers, Kanhai, Lloyd...and Roy Fredericks was the trailblazer of that era. Moreover home umpires made them even more formidable, they refused to give Sobers out that series.

 

In 1972 Sobers annihilated Australia at MCG in the Aus-ROTW series, giving special treatment to Lillee who was at the peak of his powers. So age argument is not valid. Enjoy!!!

 

but then current Aussie bowling is as good as any especially at home.  Only thing is i will always consider winning on the back of fast bowlers overseas over winning on the back of spinners.  it is not easy bowling opposition fast bowlers at their home. That is why 2007 England, 1986 England, and this Aussie win should be on top shelf. 

Edited by rkt.india
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Thats all right but why were these experts not saying such things before we won? Doing it post the series win feels like a pathetic attempt to run down the scale of achievement.

 

Did you see anyone in Australia claim 2004 win in India was not their final frontier conquered? Sachin did not play in 3 Tests of the series and Aus saved Chennai test due to rains

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I agree with a lot of people above it is tough tto rank these wins. Aus win just comes on top as they are the best all time Cricket team with most difficult place to win there. Other Asian teams have not even won a match in 21st century here.

 

If you would ask any Indian cricket fan their biggest dream for our team it would be winning a test series in Australia. We were able to string together 2 wins before this in last few decades and we were just short of winning 3 matches in a series itself.

 

This achievement looks not so great because now we have done it. Winning is South Africa maybe tough right now condition wise but we have done much better there and have come kind of close few times and it feels like with time we should be able to to do this.

 

Many times in past we have faltered overseas to build upon good start or a win in the series but this time we kept on getting better. Usually we get better when it is too late (SA series) or generally we just lose it big time as series goes on (0-8).

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

that was a low scoring series and spinners ruled even in that.  all 3 top wickets takers were Indian spinners and that England team was good but did not have single bowler as good as current Aussie or England bowlers.

Yeah right. John Snow and Underwood were gully ke thulle. You like to argue for the sake of arguing. 

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18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Also, we won in 2007 England because of rain that saved us at Lords.  cant have rain as an excuse.

Did you miss the umpiring part? Not 1-2 but literally a scenario where we had 16 wickets to get our runs while opponent had 30 lives? 

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