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Bhuvneswar Kumar ODI bowling discussion thread

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34 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Worst bowler to play for india in history of odi cricket. Not just for india i can imagine being worst in whole world if you count top 6 - 7 nations.

Def. Not the worst to play for india, there were lot worse fast bowlers playing for India e.g. praveen kumaar Vinnie the great,unadcut etc.

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9 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Def. Not the worst to play for india, there were lot worse fast bowlers playing for India e.g. praveen kumaar Vinnie the great,unadcut etc.

I mean these many matches. Yes there might be bowler who got 1 or 2 games or maybe one or two series but this guy is pathetic and have got almost 100 matches being such terrible for probably best ODI side in last decade.

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One thing that perplexes me the most is why the hell is this guy not called out by the fans and commentators. I mean in the past better bowlers like Nehra, Sreesanth and even Agarkar ( who averaged 27 goddamn) where blasted and endlessly made fun of for their poor performances. And now we have Bhuvi as our spearhead with an average of 38, in supposedly the golden era of our fast bowling.:facepalm:

 

If Dhoni is the elephant in the room, this guy is a T-Rex. :laugh:

Edited by AuxiliA

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6 hours ago, Nikola said:

Worst bowler to play for india in history of odi cricket. Not just for india i can imagine being worst in whole world if you count top 6 - 7 nations.

You must be the biggest moron in the history of cricket forums, 6-7 nations or otherwise. 

 

It is idiotic how people like you keep harping avg avg as if ODI cricket is all about destroying the opposition batting. In your form of ODI cricket, if team A scores 250/6 first and team B manages 248/7 in 40 overs, does team B lose because it lost more wickets ? Is bowler A who manages 10-0-40-0 worse than bowler B who manages 10-0-80-1 coz bowler B got better average ? Average is one part of the equation, ER is at least as important if not more. Somehow, this phassht addiction has gone to the heads of numerically challenged fans who have lost the primary idea of winning in ODI cricket is more runs than the opposition and wickets is one means to achieve that, not the primary objective. If you exhibit enough control, the opposition will try to take risks of other bowlers, and that will not reflect in your avg or SR either. 

 

There were great fast bowlers of the game who had bloody awesome economy rate: Akram, Ambrose, Pollock that I watched, others like Garner, Hadlee & Holding. Then there were other bowlers who did a tidy job on it like Gavin Larsen, really miserly while going through the overs. They had a role in the team which demanded restricting the oppositions run flow, in times where 5 RPO wasn't common at all. Teams weren't run by morons to play them. Economical bowlers have an equally important role in high scoring times of now.

 

Now if Bhuvi isn't at least economical like he hasn't been so in England ODIs or first ODI or many other matches, he doesn't deserve to be in the XI. That's one thing; but claiming he's the worst thing ever just shows your poor understanding of limited overs cricket. Even on bad days, he produces very good initial spells like CT final had 5-0-10-0 and this match had 5-0-12-1. Either he sorts out his death bowling or we find newer bowlers, but in no dimension is he so awful as you claim. Because at the end of the day, runs scored decides matches, not the wickets.

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2 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Ganguly has more fifers. If he would have worked bit hard as dravid says he would have been useful allrounder for team india.

 

Ganguly (Stats vs Top teams of his era):

image.png.cc420b4e903c940541a0f01892404f04.png

 

Bhuvi (Stats vs Top Teams): 

image.png.7e9a3b4fbac60b72539c3825458dccae.png

This is "permanently droppable" stat. He basically bullied the Asian sides?

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7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

This is "permanently droppable" stat. He basically bullied the Asian sides?

Yep bhuvi's stats vs SENA countries is poor and his stats in SA, Aus is 100-150 avg per wicket. He has bullied pakistan, srilankan and lower ranked side. 

Edited by Nikola

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7 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Yep bhuvi's stats vs SENA countries is poor and his stats in SA, Aus is 100-150 avg per wicket. He has bullied pakistan, srilankan and lower ranked side. 

Agarkar who has a far better stats were constantly ridiculed by fans. I think for now they should keep him for Tests especially in England/SA. But we have a lot of swing bowlers coming through. Won't be long before he loses that spot as well. He has to dramatically improve as a fast bowler. Attitude, aggression, stamina, energy.

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2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Agarkar who has a far better stats were constantly ridiculed by fans. I think for now they should keep him for Tests especially in England/SA. But we have a lot of swing bowlers coming through. Won't be long before he loses that spot as well. He has to dramatically improve as a fast bowler. Attitude, aggression, stamina, energy.

Why still expecting from him? Did Munaf, RP Singh, Sreesanth, Irfan Pathan kind of bowler get same amount of backing like he got? Those bowlers played when we didn't have decent bowlers in domestic circuit but now that we have so many bowlers but we still want bhuvi to become fit, aggressive with attitude and all but not try other bowlers.

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24 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Ganguly Sachin and Sehwag were riddiculous in their second skill. Just a bunch of freak skilled cricketers who happened to play in same time.

At one point we had Irfan as well who could even open the innings. Kumble could bat. Agarkar could bat. Srinath could bat. Bhaji could bat. Secondary skill is zero for these guys other than Ash/Pandya/Jaddu. When Chahal hit a 4 they were laughing around and making a joke about it. This is international cricket. Mediocrity is not something we have to joke about.

Edited by vvvslaxman

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5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

At one point we had Irfan as well who could even open the innings. Kumble could bat. Agarkar could bat. Srinath could bat. Bhaji could bat. Secondary skill is zero for these guys other than Ash/Pandya/Jaddu. When Chahal hit a 4 they were laughing around and making a joke about it. This is international cricket. Mediocrity is not something we have to joke about.

Valid. Chahal should not be allowed to bowl till he can bat and get to an average of 10. If Lyon can work on his batting why not chahal. He does not even play tests. Lazy bugger. 

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6 hours ago, Vilander said:

Ganguly Sachin and Sehwag were riddiculous in their second skill. Just a bunch of freak skilled cricketers who happened to play in same time.

 

6 hours ago, zen said:

And Dravid could keep wkts 

 

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

At one point we had Irfan as well who could even open the innings. Kumble could bat. Agarkar could bat. Srinath could bat. Bhaji could bat. Secondary skill is zero for these guys other than Ash/Pandya/Jaddu. When Chahal hit a 4 they were laughing around and making a joke about it. This is international cricket. Mediocrity is not something we have to joke about.

Blame the Aussie great team still beat us in 2003. That was supposed to be the wc year. Go to hell ponting.

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Oh I'm sure Ganguly would fit right in opening and closing the bowling in this era where 500 came close to be achieved. 

 

There was a time someone created a troll thread on Agarkar vs Akram using selective stats. The difference was it was intentional trolling and now passes as cricketing logic. 

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13 hours ago, Clarke said:

Now if Bhuvi isn't at least economical like he hasn't been so in England ODIs or first ODI or many other matches, he doesn't deserve to be in the XI. That's one thing; but claiming he's the worst thing ever just shows your poor understanding of limited overs cricket. Even on bad days, he produces very good initial spells like CT final had 5-0-10-0 and this match had 5-0-12-1. Either he sorts out his death bowling or we find newer bowlers, but in no dimension is he so awful as you claim. Because at the end of the day, runs scored decides matches, not the wickets.

Cricket is all about wickets, for bowlers, whether you like it or not! BK isn't even half decent against better opponents, stop defending his pathetic stats!

 

Records type bowling analysis [change type]
View career summary [change view]
Ordered by default (ascending)
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Career averages
  Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5  
overall 2012-2019 97 96 778.4 61 3895 105 5/42 37.09 5.00 44.4 3 1 Profile
Career summary
GroupingAscending Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5  
v Afghanistan 2014-2014 1 1 8.0 1 25 0 - - 3.12 - 0 0 view innings
v Australia 2013-2019 14 14 118.0 6 626 14 4/45 44.71 5.30 50.5 1 0 view innings
v Bangladesh 2014-2018 6 6 47.0 3 228 8 3/32 28.50 4.85 35.2 0 0 view innings
v England 2013-2018 14 14 107.0 11 535 10 3/29 53.50 5.00 64.2 0 0 view innings
v Hong Kong 2018-2018 1 1 9.0 0 50 0 - - 5.55 - 0 0 view innings
v New Zealand 2014-2017 8 8 74.0 1 432 9 3/45 48.00 5.83 49.3 0 0 view innings
v Pakistan 2012-2018 9 9 77.0 11 322 14 3/15 23.00 4.18 33.0 0 0 view innings
v South Africa 2013-2018 13 13 105.1 3 688 13 3/41 52.92 6.54 48.5 0 0 view innings
v Sri Lanka 2013-2017 12 12 101.3 11 435 16 5/42 27.18 4.28 38.0 1 1 view innings
v U.A.E. 2015-2015 1 1 5.0 0 19 1 1/19 19.00 3.80 30.0 0 0 view innings
v West Indies 2013-2018 15 14 101.0 9 455 15 3/29 30.33 4.50 40.4 0 0 view innings
v Zimbabwe 2015-2015 3 3 26.0 5 80 5 4/33 16.00 3.07 31.2 1 0 view innings
 
in Australia 2015-2019 7 7 53.5 0 303 8 4/45 37.87 5.62 40.3 1 0 view innings
in Bangladesh 2014-2015 6 6 47.2 3 236 5 2/37 47.20 4.98 56.8 0 0 view innings
in England 2013-2018 15 15 115.3 11 517 18 2/14 28.72 4.47 38.5 0 0 view innings
in India 2012-2018 39 39 334.2 27 1781 40 3/9 44.52 5.32 50.1 0 0 view innings
in New Zealand 2014-2014 5 5 44.0 1 239 4 1/38 59.75 5.43 66.0 0 0 view innings
in South Africa 2013-2018 6 6 42.0 2 269 2 1/19 134.50 6.40 126.0 0 0 view innings
in Sri Lanka 2017-2017 4 4 34.4 2 169 5 5/42 33.80 4.87 41.6 0 1 view innings
in U.A.E. 2018-2018 5 5 42.0 2 176 6 3/15 29.33 4.19 42.0 0 0 view innings
in West Indies 2013-2017 7 6 39.0 8 125 12 4/8 10.41 3.20 19.5 1 0 view innings
in Zimbabwe 2015-2015 3 3 26.0 5 80 5 4/33 16.00 3.07 31.2 1 0 view innings

 

 

He's beyond pathetic if you look at this list :facepalm:

View overall figures [change view]
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2009 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2009 from query
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 60 remove matches played greater than or equal to 60 from query and four wickets in an inns greater than or equal to 4 remove four wickets in an inns greater than or equal to 4 from query
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI AveAscending Econ SR 4 5  
MA Starc (AUS) 2010-2018 75 75 626.5 34 3109 145 6/28 21.44 4.95 25.9 9 5 investigate this query
Saeed Ajmal (PAK) 2009-2015 109 108 962.4 49 4043 180 5/24 22.46 4.19 32.0 6 2 investigate this query
Imran Tahir (SA) 2011-2018 91 89 783.3 34 3675 151 7/45 24.33 4.69 31.1 6 3 investigate this query
DW Steyn (SA) 2009-2018 101 101 869.4 61 4153 167 6/39 24.86 4.77 31.2 3 3 investigate this query
M Morkel (SA) 2009-2018 101 99 821.4 41 4082 164 5/21 24.89 4.96 30.0 6 2 investigate this query
LL Tsotsobe (SA) 2009-2013 61 60 494.0 44 2347 94 4/22 24.96 4.75 31.5 7 0 investigate this query
TA Boult (NZ) 2012-2019 71 71 640.2 43 3326 129 7/34 25.78 5.19 29.7 5 4 investigate this query
MG Johnson (AUS) 2009-2015 111 108 925.1 52 4513 174 6/31 25.93 4.87 31.9 7 1 investigate this query
SP Narine (WI) 2011-2016 65 65 590.0 35 2435 92 6/27 26.46 4.12 38.4 4 2 investigate this query
JM Anderson (ENG) 2009-2015 93 92 784.5 54 3844 142 5/23 27.07 4.89 33.1 4 2 investigate this query
BAW Mendis (SL) 2009-2015 69 67 556.5 21 2838 104 4/46 27.28 5.09 32.1 4 0 investigate this query
R Rampaul (WI) 2009-2015 62 60 487.2 20 2515 92 5/49 27.33 5.16 31.7 7 2 investigate this query
Junaid Khan (PAK) 2011-2018 71 71 554.1 32 2896 104 4/12 27.84 5.22 31.9 4 0 investigate this query
DJ Bravo (WI) 2009-2014 76 73 516.0 14 2861 101 6/43 28.32 5.54 30.6 4 1 investigate this query
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH) 2009-2018 139 137 1196.0 64 5408 190 5/47 28.46 4.52 37.7 8 1 investigate this query
WD Parnell (SA) 2009-2017 65 61 485.1 20 2738 94 5/48 29.12 5.64 30.9 3 2 investigate this query
KAJ Roach (WI) 2009-2018 78 77 643.1 46 3234 111 6/27 29.13 5.02 34.7 3 3 investigate this query
ST Finn (ENG) 2011-2017 69 67 591.4 38 2996 102 5/33 29.37 5.06 34.8 4 2 investigate this query
SL Malinga (SL) 2009-2019 160 156 1291.3 64 7124 239 6/38 29.80 5.51 32.4 6 8 investigate this query
AG Cremer (ZIM) 2009-2018 96 95 780.0 28 3597 119 6/46 30.22 4.61 39.3 4 3 investigate this query
AU Rashid (ENG) 2009-2018 78 74 656.4 6 3620 119 5/27 30.42 5.51 33.1 7 1 investigate this query
CR Woakes (ENG) 2011-2018 80 77 628.0 32 3463 113 6/45 30.64 5.51 33.3 8 2 investigate this query
KJ O'Brien (IRE) 2009-2018 101 86 568.3 24 2978 97 4/13 30.70 5.23 35.1 5 0 investigate this query
I Sharma (INDIA) 2009-2016 60 59 463.0 25 2712 88 4/34 30.81 5.85 31.5 4 0 investigate this query
JP Faulkner (AUS) 2013-2017 69 67 535.1 12 2962 96 4/32 30.85 5.53 33.4 4 0 investigate this query
Abdur Razzak (BDESH) 2009-2014 72 71 622.4 34 2967 96 5/29 30.90 4.76 38.9 3 3 investigate this query
Umar Gul (PAK) 2009-2016 79 77 612.4 37 3291 106 6/42 31.04 5.37 34.6 3 1 investigate this query
NLTC Perera (SL) 2009-2019 148 139 875.4 25 5148 165 6/44 31.20 5.87 31.8 5 4 investigate this query
SCJ Broad (ENG) 2009-2016 79 79 672.2 30 3654 116 4/15 31.50 5.43 34.7 7 0 investigate this query
Rubel Hossain (BDESH) 2009-2018 95 93 705.4 25 3955 121 6/26 32.68 5.60 34.9 7 1 investigate this query
JO Holder (WI) 2013-2018 85 84 676.2 37 3702 112 5/27 33.05 5.47 36.2 4 2 investigate this query
UT Yadav (INDIA) 2010-2018 75 73 593.0 23 3565 106 4/31 33.63 6.01 33.5 4 0 investigate this query
Shahid Afridi (PAK) 2009-2015 130 128 1114.2 27 5152 153 7/12 33.67 4.62 43.6 2 7 investigate this query
TT Bresnan (ENG) 2009-2015 80 79 670.3 32 3610 105 5/48 34.38 5.38 38.3 3 1 investigate this query
RA Jadeja (INDIA) 2009-2019 146 142 1229.1 49 6002 171 5/36 35.09 4.88 43.1 7 1 investigate this query
KMDN Kulasekara (SL) 2009-2017 143 140 1076.3 73 5462 154 5/22 35.46 5.07 41.9 3 1 investigate this query
Wahab Riaz (PAK) 2010-2017 74 73 575.4 14 3301 92 5/46 35.88 5.73 37.5 4 1 investigate this query
GH Dockrell (IRE) 2010-2018 77 75 631.2 28 2907 81 4/24 35.88 4.60 46.7 4 0 investigate this query
TG Southee (NZ) 2009-2019 126 124 1055.2 67 5784 159 7/33 36.37 5.48 39.8 3 2 investigate this query
B Kumar (INDIA) 2012-2019 97 96 778.4 61 3895 105 5/42 37.09 5.00 44.4 3 1 investigate this query

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Whoa, I also learnt that Zaheer Khan, the MVP bowler who was such a key contributor to WC win, was good with new ball and generally all right in death overs is inferior to Ishant! Coz avg SR avg SR avg SR destroy opposition break stumps damage helmets blah blah. The same Ishant who can't get a basic IPL contract while even Unadkat makes his millions. 

 

Someone educate the cricketing world about these realities that only few ICF experts seem to know.

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