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Ind should invest in developing ARs

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Tests 

 

Jason Holder is doing reasonably well for WI. However in his first 2 years, 

 

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unfiltered 36 1688 129* 32.46 3 88 6/59 28.02 5 26 0 4.43 Profile
filtered 13 546 103* 27.30 1 21 3/15 39.00 0 10 0 -11.69

 

 

After two years, 

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If we look at someone like Hardik Pandya, he has both a better batting and bowling average in his first year (vs. Holder’s in his first two years)

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Hardik is an unique cricketer as he is someone with the potential to hit 100s and bowl at 140+. I hope that Ind invests in him so that we can develop him into a top test AR 

 

 

 

PS Kallis in tests in his first 3 years 

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Edited by zen

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Very difficult.We have enough spin allrounders,but pace bowling allrounders are gold for india.Lucky thing is next wc you'll need a spin allrounder,and we already have options - jadeja,krunal,axar,sundar and upcoming abhishek sharma.

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1 minute ago, Tendulkar1996 said:

Very difficult.We have enough spin allrounders,but pace bowling allrounders are gold for india.Lucky thing is next wc you'll need a spin allrounder,and we already have options - jadeja,krunal,axar,sundar and upcoming abhishek sharma.

This is about test cricket .... Hardik is already a key player in LOIs 

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They did invest in Hardik Pandya.The problem is he has not done his part and improved his game.He has been around for 2 years.

 

Your assumption that he will become as good as Holder forget Kallis is silly.Holder has technique which is missing from Pandya.Kallis

had most perfect technique , Pandya even his wildest dreams cannot become Kallis.

 

He will continue to get his chances , it will be upto him to show improvement, I don't think he has shown any so far.

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21 hours ago, zen said:

Tests 

 

Jason Holder is doing reasonably well for WI. However in his first 2 years, 

 

Records type all-round analysis [change type]
View match by match list [change view]
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lankaremove Sri Lanka from query
Start of match date less than or equal to 26 Jun 2016 remove less than or equal to 26 Jun 2016 from query
Ordered by start date (ascending)
dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu
Career averages
  Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff  
unfiltered 36 1688 129* 32.46 3 88 6/59 28.02 5 26 0 4.43 Profile
filtered 13 546 103* 27.30 1 21 3/15 39.00 0 10 0 -11.69

 

 

After two years, 

Records type all-round analysis [change type]
View match by match list [change view]
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lankaremove Sri Lanka from query
Start of match date greater than or equal to 26 Jun 2016 remove greater than or equal to 26 Jun 2016 from query
Ordered by start date (ascending)
dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu
Career averages
  Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff  
unfiltered 2014-2019 36 1688 129* 32.46 3 88 6/59 28.02 5 26 0 4.43 Profile
filtered 2016-2019 19 933 129* 34.55 1 48 5/30 28.29 3 13 0 6.26


 

 

If we look at someone like Hardik Pandya, he has both a better batting and bowling average in his first year (vs. Holder’s in his first two years)

Records type all-round analysis [change type]
View career summary [change view]
Opposition team England remove England from query or South Africa remove South Africa from query or Sri Lanka remove Sri Lanka from query
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dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu
Career averages
  Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff  
unfiltered 11 532 108 31.29 1 17 5/28 31.05 1 7 0 0.23 Profile
filtered 10 461 108 28.81 1 17 5/28 29.64 1 7 0 -0.83

 

 

Hardik is an unique cricketer as he is someone with the potential to hit 100s and bowl at 140+. I hope that Ind invests in him so that we can develop him into a top test AR 

 

 

 

PS Kallis in tests in his first 3 years 

Records type all-round analysis [change type]
View career summary [change view]
Opposition team Australia remove Australia from query or England remove England from query or India remove India from query or New Zealand remove New Zealand from query or Pakistan remove Pakistan from query or Sri Lanka remove Sri Lanka from query or West Indiesremove West Indies from query
Start of match date less than or equal to 14 Dec 1998 remove less than or equal to 14 Dec 1998 from query
Ordered by default (ascending)
dblBakArwB.gifReturn to query menu
dblBakArwW.gifCleared query menu
Career averages
  Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff  
unfiltered 1995-2013 166 13289 224 55.37 45 292 6/54 32.65 5 200 0 22.71 Profile
filtered 1995-1998 21 985 132 30.78 2 27 4/24 33.03 0 18 0 -2.25

 

Holder averaged 23 with ball in domestics.

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19 hours ago, putrevus said:

They did invest in Hardik Pandya.The problem is he has not done his part and improved his game.He has been around for 2 years.

 

Your assumption that he will become as good as Holder forget Kallis is silly.Holder has technique which is missing from Pandya.Kallis

had most perfect technique , Pandya even his wildest dreams cannot become Kallis.

 

He will continue to get his chances , it will be upto him to show improvement, I don't think he has shown any so far.

Assumption is that players magically develop skills directly at international level without proving themselves in FC cricket.

 

Holder was made captain with that type of performance. Let's make Pandya captain of this team.

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26 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Holder averaged 23 with ball in domestics.

 

14 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Assumption is that players magically develop skills directly at international level without proving themselves in FC cricket.

 

Holder was made captain with that type of performance. Let's make Pandya captain of this team.

Pandya has been fast tracked and we have his international performances in front of us, which is better than Holder’s, whatever his domestic performances, in his first 13 tests 

 

Whenever Pandya bowled with a relatively fresh ball, his bowling performance is much better, including winning Ind a test match overseas. Not to forget his 100, 90, 50 not out, etc 

Edited by zen

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13 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Assumption is that players magically develop skills directly at international level without proving themselves in FC cricket.

 

Holder was made captain with that type of performance. Let's make Pandya captain of this team.

Basic tools are missing from Padya or his brother.

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35 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Jadeja since NZ series:

 

Bat avg: 45

Bowl avg: 23

 

Should always play ahead of Pandya if we are looking for AR and he doesn't make it to top 4 bowling positions.

Agreed. Jadeja has done well and is way ahead of Pandya. Jadeja is a very very viable player in the line up.

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12 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Pandya has been fast tracked and we have his international performances in front of us, which is better than Holder’s, whatever his domestic performances, in his first 13 tests 

  

 Whenever Pandya bowled with a relatively fresh ball, his bowling performance is much better, including winning Ind a test match overseas. Not to forget his 100, 90, 50 not out, etc 

Yes, it's better than Holder.

 

Can you list names of players who averaged less than 30 in domestic cricket and averaged 40 in test cricket?

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4 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

He should be first preference if we are looking for all rounders.

 

 

Yes. He is the closest we have.

Edited by Khota

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11 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Yes, it's better than Holder.

 

Can you list names of players who averaged less than 30 in domestic cricket and averaged 40 in test cricket?

I do not follow domestics much. But know players  to have been fast tracked many times like Tendulkar. I do not know how Shaw, Gill, Pant, Kuldeep, etc have done in domestics but am confident of them doing well in international games based on potential and talent .... on the other hand, guys like Vihari have good domestic records but appear like glorified night watchmen at international stage 

 

From what I recall, Sobers does not have a great FC record :winky:

 

Edited by zen

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8 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

@zen why should Pandya get a preference over Jadeja?

a) More talented than Jadeja

b) An unique pace bowling AR from Ind 

c) Jadeja got his chances 

 

Jadeja can be played too if a spinner is required. But I do not trust his batting as much. Recently in SENA, did well in games where Ind scored heavily with Pant scoring 100s in both games. Pandya could have hit 100s on such surfaces too (Avgs 60+ in good batting conditions)

Edited by zen

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3 minutes ago, zen said:

I do not follow domestics much. But know players  to have been fast tracked many times like Tendulkar. I do not know how Shaw, Gill, Pant, Kuldeep, etc have done in domestics but am confident of them doing well in international games based on potential and talent .... on the other hand, guys like Vihari have good domestic records but appear like a glorified night watchman at international stage 

  

From what I recall, Sobers does not have a great FC record :winky:

 

And Tendulkar had a great record in FC cricket before debut.

 

Shaw, Gill both have dones well in domestics.

 

Even IPL star Pant averages 54 in FC. In fact he has been average in limited over games.

 

Kuldeep - bowlers can succeed without toiling much in FC. That's known and there are many examples. Batsmen don't and there are hardly example.

 

Gary Sobers averages 52-53 in FC cricket (non-international) with bat and 25 with ball. 

 

What indication Pandya gives of improvement to that level in future? You're just picking average start of players and thinking Pandya will magically improve to their levels without even doing hard yards in FC cricket especially with bat when most likely there isn't player who has done it.

 

Setting very high expectations for him and he isn't most talented player in history of game to do what no one else has done.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, zen said:

a) More talented than Jadeja

b) An unique pace bowling AR from Ind 

c) Jadeja got his chances 

  

Jadeja can be played too if a spinner is required. But I do not trust his batting as much. Recently in SENA, did well in games where Ind scored heavily with Pant scoring 100s in both games. Pandya could have hit 100s on such surfaces too (Avgs 60+ in good batting conditions)

Where is actual performance in that list? Performance doesn't count? None of those if you have a better performer. What's the use of uniqueness here when performance isn't upto the mark.

 

Jadeja averages higher with bat and lower with ball. Miles ahead of Pandya with ball (at least ahead in all conditions) and batting performance has been better than Pandya's.

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35 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

And Tendulkar had a great record in FC cricket before debut.

 

Shaw, Gill both have dones well in domestics.

 

Even IPL star Pant averages 54 in FC. In fact he has been average in limited over games.

 

Kuldeep - bowlers can succeed without toiling much in FC. That's known and there are many examples. Batsmen don't and there are hardly example.

 

Gary Sobers averages 52-53 in FC cricket (non-international) with bat and 25 with ball. 

 

What indication Pandya gives of improvement to that level in future? You're just picking average start of players and thinking Pandya will magically improve to their levels without even doing hard yards in FC cricket especially with bat when most likely there isn't player who has done it.

 

Setting very high expectations for him and he isn't most talented player in history of game to do what no one else has done.

 

 

I do not go by domestics as many teams have below avg players .... I usually remove BD and Zim when looking at stats  .... If you care for it, Pandya did well in recently in domestics picking up a 5-er and scoring a 50 .... even in Ind A games, he out performed some of Ind top domestic performers in demanding batting conditions. Scorecard was posted by @Ankit_sharma03 on one of the threads 

 

I m more like a guy who sees something special in a player and back him. Be it Sehwag or Dhoni or Pandya. Luckily, IPL serves as a window to observing players with potential 

Edited by zen

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10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Where is actual performance in that list? Performance doesn't count? None of those if you have a better performer. What's the use of uniqueness here when performance isn't upto the mark.

 

Jadeja averages higher with bat and lower with ball. Miles ahead of Pandya with ball (at least ahead in all conditions) and batting performance has been better than Pandya's.

Pandya is in his first season in tests .... and played most of his games in difficult conditions in SA and Eng .... As a batsman, Pandya would usually be batting higher than Jadeja irrespective of the format 

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1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Jadeja since NZ series:

 

Bat avg: 45

Bowl avg: 23

 

Should always play ahead of Pandya if we are looking for AR and he doesn't make it to top 4 bowling positions.

Jadeja made his test debut in 2012

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On 1/26/2019 at 6:52 AM, putrevus said:

They did invest in Hardik Pandya.The problem is he has not done his part and improved his game.He has been around for 2 years.

 

Your assumption that he will become as good as Holder forget Kallis is silly.Holder has technique which is missing from Pandya.Kallis

had most perfect technique , Pandya even his wildest dreams cannot become Kallis.

 

He will continue to get his chances , it will be upto him to show improvement, I don't think he has shown any so far.

Exactly my point.. it was not about giving him chances but the team management and fans over hyped him saying how crucial he was and how he balanced the team.. you do understand these things but you do not tell that to a youngster.. this is the reason today we see him making these stupid public statements as the limited success and the extensive hype has got to his head.. I hope he comes out of that and focuses on his game and shows that he can improve

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