India has no chance of scoring 350 plus

[putrevus]

I don't know why Kohli was looking pleased with that performance. Indian middle order again could not capitalize on the good start provided by openers.Even if one of the top three plays for 50 overs , they have no chance of setting up 350 plus totals .We can forget chasing bigger totals.

 

What was appalling yesterday that Indians could not find one boundary in 4 overs from 42nd to 46th.Dhoni it is very clear has no ability to find boundaries on a regular basis.Rayudu has to go.

 

With Dhoni shamelessly hanging on and hell bent of ruining India's chances of winning world cup. Is India better off playing five frontline bowlers along with Jadhav  and hope to restrict other team from scoring.

 

Pity is other than these two bozos along with Karthik India has very good team.It has all the bases covered.I really hope Gill is given a chance and is good enough to replace Rayudu.

[sandeep]

I wish there was an easy way to gather cumulative statistics of team scores at different stages of an ODI, especially batting first.  

 

I'd bet that England's top 3 are outscoring India's superstars in the 1st 25 overs CONSISTENTLY.  

 

At this point, Dhoni is what he is.  In fact, his performance yesterday - 48(33) is about the best you can expect from him.  But the 'worst' batting performance of the day was by Rayudu.  When Kohli got out, he was already on 30-odd, roughly run a ball.  At that point, as an int'l batsman, you have your eye in.  It was his job to start attacking.  He refused to do so until multiple messages were sent out to him, with 'bat changes'.   

 

But I wouldn't want to blame Rayudu entirely for yesterday's underwhelming performance.  The openers could have, and should have scored at least 20-25 more runs in the deliveries they faced cumulatively.   It is extremely unfair to the team and the rest of the batsman to eat 50% or more of the total deliveries, including 60 balls of the best powerplay, and score under run-a-ball, on such batting friendly tracks.  Top order batsman cannot bat "safe" until they cross their personal milestones, and then try to "make it up".  For one thing, there's no guarantee that they will get there - perfect example yesterday - and the times that they don't "catch up", they leave the rest of the team in too deep a hole.  

 

I have been banging on and on about this since before 2015.  And NOTHING has changed.  I used to believe that it was Dhoni's captaincy that was responsible for the "safe" batting tactics, the "take it deep" philosophy that willingly gave up 20-30 runs from the max score in order to minimize the chances of a 240 all out.  I thought Virat's captaincy would finally bring India's batting tactics to the modern age.  Boy was I wrogn.

[SK_IH]

Rayudu has to go, enough of his BS selfish innings. 

[Cricketics]

We have a chance id we bat Dhoni at 4 and Jadhav at 5 and Karthik or Pandya can follow.

 

Dhoni is lovked for world cup so futile tondiacuss id he belongs to team or not. So since he is palying I rather ahve hik at 4 and yield out Rayudu and put Jadhav in early and then have Jadhav in.

 

Alos have Oant in squd in case Karthik or Jadhav have disastrous start we can always have back up.

 

anyways with 9 games at least team is going to change few times so better go with this

 

Dhawan

Rohit

Kohli

Dhoni

Jadhav

Karthik/Pant

Pandya

[jusarrived]

So we dint get to 350 today cos Dhoni scored only 48 of 33 or is it cos we score at 5 rpo in first 15 ? 

 

 

[chewy]

India will always struggle to score 350 not with just a limp middle order but the way the top three play.

 

As good as Rohit and Dhawan are, both are in it for.long run and never really capitalise on power play, rarely do they score 110 plus in first 15 overs

[velu]

if rohit stayed there for some more time , NZ might be chasing 375+ ..

anyway rayudu screwed our momentum ( even though i didnt see him bat today  )

 

[velu]

10 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I have been banging on and on about this since before 2015.  And NOTHING has changed.  I used to believe that it was Dhoni's captaincy that was responsible for the "safe" batting tactics, the "take it deep" philosophy that willingly gave up 20-30 runs from the max score in order to minimize the chances of a 240 all out.  I thought Virat's captaincy would finally bring India's batting tactics to the modern age.  Boy was I wrogn.

 

england bat deep .. we dont have that luxury 

woakes and stokes .. two allrounders

and david willey establishing himself , their top order can fire from the beginning 

[SK_IH]

3 minutes ago, chewy said:

India will always struggle to score 350 not with just a limp middle order but the way the top three play.

 

As good as Rohit and Dhawan are, both are in it for.long run and never really capitalise on power play, rarely do they score 110 plus in first 15 overs

Whatever you may say but if the top 3 has scored 170 in 30 overs, rest of the batting has to be capable enough to get to 350.

 

 

[chewy]

At some point India will need to bring an explosive Opener, some one like Roy or Munro

Which means sacrifice the 44-45 average for 30-35 average but SR of 105 - 110 

[Stan AF]

7 minutes ago, chewy said:

India will always struggle to score 350 not with just a limp middle order but the way the top three play.

 

As good as Rohit and Dhawan are, both are in it for.long run and never really capitalise on power play, rarely do they score 110 plus in first 15 overs

One could argue that they're batting that way because of our poor middle order also. If India end up say like 100/3 with all (ro,dh,ko) gone we wouldn't cross 250.

[mani sha]

dhoni retires

pant in

 

rayudu gets kicked out by gill/ shaw

 

pandya brothers at 6/7 

 

jadeja as reserve

 

your middle order is decent

 

no conplaints with dhawan - never eats up deliveries 

rohit is the issue - sooner teams realize that a 30 ball 40 is more valuable at top then a 101 ball 100

how i miss Viru

[mani sha]

we will loose to england or west indies - they are the power hitting teams and unfortunately india seems to think that their wristspinners will bail them out - highly unlikely looking at way england batted in odi against us 

 

for now , enjoy ipl tamasha. pray that we continue to do well in tests. prepare for a semifinal exit from world cup with kohli and shastri patting each others backs.

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, velu said:

 

england bat deep .. we dont have that luxury 

woakes and stokes .. two allrounders

and david willey establishing himself , their top order can fire from the beginning 

Nobody's saying that the top order should bat like Afridi on hashish.  But they need to try and improve their production by 10-15%.  Increasing momentum while managing risk is not something that you can just flip a switch when you decide to.  It takes dozens of games to practice and incorporate into your batting method.  

 

Besides, there's always grandpa to tuk-tuk and "rebuild" if we need to.  

 

If it were up to me, I would have had Rishabh Pant or KLPD open, with license to attack, along with Dhawan, pushing Rohit to #3 and Virat to #4.   If Rohit can give up opening and bat in the middle order for Ambanis, he can certainly do it for Indian team.  

 

But making these changes means Virat gets fewer chances to rack up those big scores in meaningless games that have made him the "star" he is today. Same for Rohit.  Why would Bunty's 2 "ballerz" give up the cushy gigs they have right now just so that the team can improve its win% from 75 to 85%, increase WC winning chances by 10-20%?  As it is, even with being selfish, Indian team's chances are pretty damn good.    And all the blame and anger is directed at Greybeard, Rayudu etc.  

 

Why ruin a good gig when you don't have to.  

[putrevus]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I wish there was an easy way to gather cumulative statistics of team scores at different stages of an ODI, especially batting first.  

 

I'd bet that England's top 3 are outscoring India's superstars in the 1st 25 overs CONSISTENTLY.  

 

At this point, Dhoni is what he is.  In fact, his performance yesterday - 48(33) is about the best you can expect from him.  But the 'worst' batting performance of the day was by Rayudu.  When Kohli got out, he was already on 30-odd, roughly run a ball.  At that point, as an int'l batsman, you have your eye in.  It was his job to start attacking.  He refused to do so until multiple messages were sent out to him, with 'bat changes'.   

 

But I wouldn't want to blame Rayudu entirely for yesterday's underwhelming performance.  The openers could have, and should have scored at least 20-25 more runs in the deliveries they faced cumulatively.   It is extremely unfair to the team and the rest of the batsman to eat 50% or more of the total deliveries, including 60 balls of the best powerplay, and score under run-a-ball, on such batting friendly tracks.  Top order batsman cannot bat "safe" until they cross their personal milestones, and then try to "make it up".  For one thing, there's no guarantee that they will get there - perfect example yesterday - and the times that they don't "catch up", they leave the rest of the team in too deep a hole.  

 

I have been banging on and on about this since before 2015.  And NOTHING has changed.  I used to believe that it was Dhoni's captaincy that was responsible for the "safe" batting tactics, the "take it deep" philosophy that willingly gave up 20-30 runs from the max score in order to minimize the chances of a 240 all out.  I thought Virat's captaincy would finally bring India's batting tactics to the modern age.  Boy was I wrogn.

I don't think Rayudu is capabble of doing any better against good bowling, he is limited player.Dhoni is done , when team needed 10 plus over Dhoni was taking leisure singles.

 

I would not blame top order that much for not going gun blazing from ball one as they know they don't have any one else to finish the innings. It proved yesterday once Kohli got out both Rayudu and Dhoni looked lost and I am tired of this nonsense that Dhoni is needed to marshall bowlers. 

 

Jadhav needs to be given bigger role and Pandya if he playing should always come ahead of Dhoni. Pant should have given a chance to play at no 4. He is a leftie also which is big plus.

 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, chewy said:

At some point India will need to bring an explosive Opener, some one like Roy or Munro

Which means sacrifice the 44-45 average for 30-35 average but SR of 105 - 110 

If it is required to get practical about scoring quicky in PP, it might not be a bad idea to get in a more aggressive opener like Shaw/Gill/Agarwal/...., or get someone like Pandya or Jadhav to do what Kalu did for SL in 96

 

If the openers bat the way they do and are able to recover, it is great. The issue is if they get out after wasting the balls and then Rayudu, Dhoni and company will waste more balls .... If we play steady openers, we need more aggressive batsmen at 4, 5 and 6 

[Stan AF]

3 minutes ago, mani sha said:

we will loose to england or west indies - they are the power hitting teams and unfortunately india seems to think that their wristspinners will bail them out - highly unlikely looking at way england batted in odi against us 

 

for now , enjoy ipl tamasha. pray that we continue to do well in tests. prepare for a semifinal exit from world cup with kohli and shastri patting each others backs.

True.its stupid to expect wrist spin to bail us out everytime.

[sandeep]

27 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

So we dint get to 350 today cos Dhoni scored only 48 of 33 or is it cos we score at 5 rpo in first 15 ? 

 

 

Sssh.  Don't interrupt the stupid brigade with less than obvious facts.

[chewy]

25 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

One could argue that they're batting that way because of our poor middle order also. If India end up say like 100/3 with all (ro,dh,ko) gone we wouldn't cross 250.

of course, right now I wouldn't change the top 3, even if someone Jason Roy. Mainly because the middle order has no gears. 

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Jadhav needs to be given bigger role and Pandya if he playing should always come ahead of Dhoni.

Weren't you the one arguing against me when I advocated promoting Jadhav in the batting order?  This was last year.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by sandeep