Learning from other sports: Teenagers in FIFA World CUP

[profster]

Regarding Gill and Shaw:

It is understandable that you don't want to experiment in big tournaments like the World Cup.

But, if you have:
(a) outstanding talent with "once-in-a-generation" potential

(b) excellent record in the age-group world tournaments
(c) proven credentials in the domestic professional leagues
(d) good experience in the premier club tournament
(e) first hand skills assessment from the senior team practice sessions
it stands to reason that you include them in the final squad if not in the playing XI.

Why not give Gill and Shaw a proper go in the remaining bilateral ODIs as reserve opener and reserve #4 at least even if you are confident in Rayudu at #4?

But then, as a Desi, one can never assume "good faith" decisions from any Desi institution, let alone the BCCI with its history of nepotism, regionalism, favouritism and all other asinine and evil -isms on the planet.

Here's how teenagers fared in the FIFA World Cup, a high-intensity and high-stakes tournament (yes, Gill and Shaw are technically just outside last teenage year of 19 but you get my point)

https://www.90min.com/posts/6105237-6-of-the-best-performances-by-teenagers-in-the-history-of-the-world-cup
 

Edited January 29, 2019 by profster

[Khota]

Gill and Shaw are good and they may turn out great. Since you are bringing football into equation just look at the average age of players in Bundes league or Laliga. It is close to 26. Young debut is not always the best idea. They need to be brought in slowly.

[velu]

another learning from football .. club football > friendlies and wc 

[profster]

3 minutes ago, Khota said:

Gill and Shaw are good and they may turn out great. Since you are bringing football into equation just look at the average age of players in Bundes league or Laliga. It is close to 26. Young debut is not always the best idea. They need to be brought in slowly.

Agreed.

But then my argument is really for players that might be "exceptions to the rule" (the sports prodigies like Messi, Tendulkar etc.). Why can't we give them a run to see if we can have them in the squad if not the playing XI. Our own captain and coach have nothing but high praise for them.

Right now, we have a catch-22: we don't play them because we don't think they are ready yet and they are not ready yet because we don't play them (even in low-stakes bilaterals in the buildup to the World Cup).

 

It is like refusing to play Messi or Ronaldo even in international friendlies or inconsequential WC Qualifiers (as they were called before the current regime of Nations League).

[profster]

2 minutes ago, velu said:

another learning from football .. club football > friendlies and wc 

All analogies eventually breakdown :-)

FIFA WC is a different beast than first division football or even the continental tournaments like Champions League (only format where you need to win 4 knockout games in a short period of time). Olympics Gold has age and professional player restrictions, so not exactly the same.

 

[Khota]

44 minutes ago, profster said:

Agreed.

But then my argument is really for players that might be "exceptions to the rule" (the sports prodigies like Messi, Tendulkar etc.). Why can't we give them a run to see if we can have them in the squad if not the playing XI. Our own captain and coach have nothing but high praise for them.

Right now, we have a catch-22: we don't play them because we don't think they are ready yet and they are not ready yet because we don't play them (even in low-stakes bilaterals in the buildup to the World Cup).

 

It is like refusing to play Messi or Ronaldo even in international friendlies or inconsequential WC Qualifiers (as they were called before the current regime of Nations League).

Messi, Ronaldo are once in a generation players. Those are so hard to come by that is why teams play it safe and play the experienced one. 

So the answer is if we know for sure that Shaw and Gill are the next Messi or Ronaldo, than they should be played.

[Khota]

48 minutes ago, velu said:

another learning from football .. club football > friendlies and wc 

Mostly agreed. WC is still the biggest deal. Clubs release their players for WC but not for olympics or friendly stuff.

[mancalledsting]

Prithvi Shaw is already better than Rohit Sharma

[gakgupta]

4 hours ago, profster said:

Regarding Gill and Shaw:

It is understandable that you don't want to experiment in big tournaments like the World Cup.

But, if you have:
(a) outstanding talent with "once-in-a-generation" potential

(b) excellent record in the age-group world tournaments
(c) proven credentials in the domestic professional leagues
(d) good experience in the premier club tournament
(e) first hand skills assessment from the senior team practice sessions
it stands to reason that you include them in the final squad if not in the playing XI.

Why not give Gill and Shaw a proper go in the remaining bilateral ODIs as reserve opener and reserve #4 at least even if you are confident in Rayudu at #4?

But then, as a Desi, one can never assume "good faith" decisions from any Desi institution, let alone the BCCI with its history of nepotism, regionalism, favouritism and all other asinine and evil -isms on the planet.

Here's how teenagers fared in the FIFA World Cup, a high-intensity and high-stakes tournament (yes, Gill and Shaw are technically just outside last teenage year of 19 but you get my point)

https://www.90min.com/posts/6105237-6-of-the-best-performances-by-teenagers-in-the-history-of-the-world-cup
 

I think Gill is still injured

[prudent_kreeda]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

Messi, Ronaldo are once in a generation players. Those are so hard to come by that is why teams play it safe and play the experienced one. 

So the answer is if we know for sure that Shaw and Gill are the next Messi or Ronaldo, than they should be played.

  But how will you know if they are not given chance at all ?

[jf1gp_1]

Reserve batsman slot is still up for grab considering none of Manish iyer rahul or pant have been called its upto gill to seal it. Lets see if he is even fielded day after to know how serious kohli was about gill.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

  But how will you know if they are not given chance at all ?

That is a difficult question to answer. Most of the coaches are very conservative and will not chance these two young guys for world cup and I agree.

[jf1gp_1]

11 hours ago, Khota said:

That is a difficult question to answer. Most of the coaches are very conservative and will not chance these two young guys for world cup and I agree.

Thats true however we have seen our share of surprise world cup picks. 03 mongia was picked ahead of vvs. Robin was picked for 07 based on few quickfire innings. 11 rohit didnt find spot and lets not forget out of blue they selected chawla.  So who knows maybe gill might find a spot if he does well in coming games.

[prudent_kreeda]

One of the reserve batsman should be able to open as a back up. If K L R form does not improve Gill may make it. Benefit is he can also fit in at 4 if needed,provided he does really well till WC start.

[rkt.india]

16 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

Prithvi Shaw is already better than Rohit Sharma

It will be a herculean task for anyone to match Rohit Sharma, the ODI batsman.  He is averaging 60 with SR 90 plus since he started opening in 2013.  No other opener comes close.

[Sandeep99]

But but India will be playing with a mix of experience (Dhoni - like old wine), and youth (Rayudu - panther in human form) in the world cup. Why do you need these so called once in a generation talents?

[mancalledsting]

On 1/30/2019 at 7:16 AM, rkt.india said:

It will be a herculean task for anyone to match Rohit Sharma, the ODI batsman.  He is averaging 60 with SR 90 plus since he started opening in 2013.  No other opener comes close.

I think Bairstow/Roy type opening combo is what we should aspire to. Rohit falls below these two in terms of attacking nature. Also consider how Rohit drains initial momentum in pursuit of that high average and knock on effect it has on batting partner. Rohit notorious struggles with rotating strike. He is a boundary or nothing man. 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

22 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

I think Bairstow/Roy type opening combo is what we should aspire to. Rohit falls below these two in terms of attacking nature. Also consider how Rohit drains initial momentum in pursuit of that high average and knock on effect it has on batting partner. Rohit notorious struggles with rotating strike. He is a boundary or nothing man. 

He has a strike rate of 97 in the last 50 ODIs. Nothing to complain about.

[R!TTER]

He also struggles against leg spin for some reason, more against leg spin just to be clear.

[R!TTER]

2 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

He has a strike rate of 97 in the last 50 ODIs. Nothing to complain about.

His starts are awfully slow, really really slow at times in fact.