Top 3 or bust - so youngtsers or grandpas in middle order?

[ShoonyaSifar]

Time and again, last 3-4 years have shown us the batting is totally dependent on top 3 of Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli. The day all fail to score a big score, middle order struggles. We have tried Rayudu, DK, Manish Pandey, Rahane, Raina, Yuvraj with Dhoni being there all the time - all of the being 33+ except for Pandet. Nothing has worked and there are enough examples.

 

So the question is should we still go with these oldies or is it better to take a risk with youngsters. Even if we lose, with youngsters playing, we at least move forward as the younger ones get experienced.

 

I know this has been debated to death. But has the time come to throw out Rayudu and DK forever?

[zen]

We have nothing to lose but may be something to gain by trying some of Agarwal, Shaw, Pant and Gill 

 

 

 

 

[flamy]

Isn't this all of the dreams coming true together? Top order failure, middle order exposed, and changes to be made?

 

Surely Rayudu is done now?

 

[rkt.india]

it cant be just black and white, young or old.  You need a good balance and able players.  Expecting 19-some 20 year old rookies to do wonders is utter foolishness.  The time for trial and error is past now.  you have to show trust in what you have and let them play all the games instead of too much chopping and changing.

[R!TTER]

11 minutes ago, flamy said:

Isn't this all of the dreams coming true together? Top order failure, middle order exposed, and changes to be made?

 

Surely Rayudu is done now?

 

But the thing is who's the answer, you think Gill will go to the WC with lest than half a dozen games to his name or Shaw for that matter? Haven't you seen this TM or captain Kohli's selection in the last few years?

[ShoonyaSifar]

20 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

it cant be just black and white, young or old.  You need a good balance and able players.  Expecting 19-some 20 year old rookies to do wonders is utter foolishness.  The time for trial and error is past now.  you have to show trust in what you have and let them play all the games instead of too much chopping and changing.

We know for a fact that irrespective of how many chances they get, Grandpas in the middle order will fail in crunch situation. With the youngsters, that same risk is there. So in either cases, we are going to lose. 

 

So why not lose with youngsters so at least a couple of them are ready 4 years down the line for a home WC. None of the Grandpas will be around in 2023, its a home WC, we have an opportunity of giving chances to younger players to get a feel of a WC this time and help them mature in the years ahead.

 

Another thing to ponder, in 2015 WC, 2016 T20 WC and 2017 CT, we put our faith in oldies - Rahane, Yuvraj and Raina with Rayudu and DK around as well. We know the results of each of those tournaments and also the performances of the oldies in those tournaments. So why not look at things differently now when the end result is very much known with these grandpas

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

We know for a fact that irrespective of how many chances they get, Grandpas in the middle order will fail in crunch situation. With the youngsters, that same risk is there. So in either cases, we are going to lose. 

 

So why not lose with youngsters so at least a couple of them are ready 4 years down the line for a home WC. None of the Grandpas will be around in 2023, its a home WC, we have an opportunity of giving chances to younger players to get a feel of a WC this time and help them mature in the years ahead.

 

Another thing to ponder, in 2015 WC, 2016 T20 WC and 2017 CT, we put our faith in oldies - Rahane, Yuvraj and Raina with Rayudu and DK around as well. We know the results of each of those tournaments and also the performances of the oldies in those tournaments. So why not look at things differently now when the end result is very much known with these grandpas

WC is not meant for experiments or preparing for next WC.  

[velu]

and our top #3 fails regularly  in  important games  

[ShoonyaSifar]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

WC is not meant for experiments or preparing for next WC.  

Playing with oldies is a far bigger risky experiment. If you don't get that, I can't do anything to help you. 

 

 

[GautiMaan]

Experienced cricketers threw their wickets away to CDG like headless chickens while Gill atleast showed some class and resolve before being done in by Boult(even Kohli could have got out cheaply in that spell) 

 

[velu]

6 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Playing with oldies is a far bigger risky experiment. If you don't get that, I can't do anything to help you. 

 

 

 

no .. i fell playing with an inexperienced players is a bigger risk ..

dont bring in how imran khan unearthed inzamam in the streets of lahore 

[sandsaims]

Problem is rayudu and jhadav isn't just their batting but also their Fielding, between them we can expect at least one dropped catch and quite a few runs given away.

[Real McCoy]

Ok enough wirst slitting. Play the same team and hope for the best Anyway our good luck charm Bewda needs to get a drink. Bubye.

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, velu said:

 

no .. i fell playing with an inexperienced players is a bigger risk ..

dont bring in how imran khan unearthed inzamam in the streets of lahore 

You don't need to be an Imran to know Gill and Pant are far better players than Rayudu and DK. Only reason Yuvraj and Raina made so many comeback was because then youngsters Rayudu and DK could not cement their place in the middle order from 2012-2015. Now we are repeating the same mistake insteading of blooding real youngsters and giving them a proper run.

 

As for the point on experience, our top 3 has nearly 650 ODIs between them, that's more than enough experience you need for batting.

[velu]

33 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

As for the point on experience, our top 3 has nearly 650 ODIs between them, that's more than enough experience you need for batting.

experience should be uniformly distributed ..

also top heavy batting wont work even in T20s ( aka rcb  ) 

[Sachinism]

Do India need to mess around with the order a few games before the world cup?

Or do others need to step up in pressure games where we've lost early wickets, because there's no reason for us to be bowled out for 80 odd

[Khota]

So true. If top fails oters fail too. I would pick Aggarwal over Gill to solve this problem.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Playing with oldies is a far bigger risky experiment. If you don't get that, I can't do anything to help you. 

 

 

i do get that.  Still those oldies have been in those situations before, not youngsters and you want youngsters to throw in the deep war like Abhimanyu.  It is a lose-lose situation.  If we have to lose WC, better lose with oldies so that they can be kicked out after that ASAP.  if it was not for WC so soon, i would have loved to lose with youngsters but losing WC with youngsters without giving them enough time to prepare would mean a lot of questions on them.  We cannot sacrifice our Abhimanyus.

[cowboysfan]

This match illustrates why we need kohli ,our openers for all their great records cant play(AT ALL) if the ball moves even a bit.Kohli will atleast steady ship when these 2 guys get out to set up a decent total. 

[prudent_kreeda]

 Part of the problem is the openers themselves . One is playing for 10+ years and another for 5+ . But when ball swings they cannot last more than 4 overs . They just do not have the game to survive the 10 overs and limit the damage even when batting first. 

So we have live with it . If its a good wicket we always have a chance . But vs good swing bowlers with some help we should have low expectation. In that scenario, its wrong to expect to win global events as we will always be one match away from KO.