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vayuu1

Karsevak massacre : mulayum singh govt exposed by a sting

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A sting conducted by newly launched republic bharat, revealed that the mulayum govt of 1990 tried to hide the original no of kersevaks killed in 1990 ayodhya firing incident,also they buried a lot of bodies to hide the facts, the thing is this was a deliberate killing, where the police officers fired at kersevaks at their body with intention of killing them rather than wounding them. 

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Tragedies occur when police has to do desperate crowd control with mob violence.  Same guy who is crying foul about kar sevaks being killed, will shout till his lungs go hoarse, justifying those killed or blinded in Kashmir mob violence. 

 

When you participate in mob violence, you are making a choice to risk your personal safety.  A "karsevak" defying orders of the police forces is just as "anti-national" as the Kashmiri idiot throwing stones at the Kashmir police or CRPF.  

 

Mind you I am not justifying any tragic deaths.  But I'm starting to see a lot of Saffron fundooos (fuddooos)  posting here on ICF.  I don't want a Saffron mirror image of greenbros dominating the conversation and pushing the silent majority towards bullying majoritarianism.  

Edited by sandeep

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Tragedies occur when police has to do desperate crowd control with mob violence.  Same guy who is crying foul about kar sevaks being killed, will shout till his lungs go hoarse, justifying those killed or blinded in Kashmir mob violence. 

 

When you participate in mob violence, you are making a choice to risk your personal safety.  A "karsevak" defying orders of the police forces is just as "anti-national" as the Kashmiri idiot throwing stones at the Kashmir police or CRPF.  

 

Mind you I am not justifying any tragic deaths.  But I'm starting to see a lot of Saffron fundooos (fuddooos)  posting here on ICF.  I don't want a Saffron mirror image of greenbros dominating the conversation and pushing the silent majority towards bullying majoritarianism.  

It's been a habit of some to call anybody without knowing the fact, 

30 October 1990Edit

Called "the D-Day of Karseva" 30 October saw the start of unprecedented security arrangements.[4] Police barred all bus and train services to Ayodhya. Most kar sevaksreached Ayodhya by foot; some swam across the Sarayu river. The police also barricaded the 1.5 km-long climb to the disputed structure and imposed a curfew. According to the investigatory Liberhan Commission report, issued after the event:

At around 10am, a large group of kar sevaksheaded towards the site, led by Vamadev, Mahant Nratyagopal Das, and Ashok Singhal of the VHP. Ashok Singhal was wounded on the head by a police baton. This altercation led to a mob frenzy and open confrontation between civilians and policemen.

At around 11am, a Hindu holyman or sadhumanaged to gain control of an Armed Constabulary bus in which the police were holding detainees. The sadhu drove the bus right through the barricades, clearing a way for the others to follow on foot. The security forces were caught off guard and were forced to chase about 5,000 kar sevaks, who stormed through the heavily guarded site.[8][11][12] According to eyewitnesses the Kothari brothers mounted a saffron flag atop the Babri Masjid.[13]

On the orders of Mulayam Singh Yadavsecurity personnel fired on the crowd and chased kar sevaks across the area. Many people died from head wounds. There was a stampede at the Saryu Bridge, which killed a number of people.

1 November 1990Edit

Hindu groups took a day of rest on 1 November.

2 November 1990Edit

Assembled kar sevaks offered prayers at Ramlila on the morning of 2 November and then proceeded to Babri Masjid. Members of the crowd used the strategy of touching security personnel's feet, which made them withdraw a step. This worked for a while, and the procession continued. However, the police took firm action by using tear gas and baton charges to disperse the crowd.[9]Nevertheless, some contingents of kar sevaksreached and partially damaged the mosque.

In response the police opened fire for the second time in 72 hours, and chased kar sevaks through the alleys around Hanumangarhi. In one place, later named Shaheed Gali or Martyr’s Alley, police killed many kar sevaks – this included the Kothari Brothers, who were allegedly dragged out of a house.

Some Indians have accused the police of disposing of many dead bodies, either by cremating them at unknown places or by dumping them into the Saryu River in sacks.[14]

Read why the confrontation happened earlier ,

it's becoming the habit of chewts to apologize for the sake of sickularism,let me ask you onething if say if say a guy comes to ur house, razes it and makes a house over it and says that is my house will that be a legal possession or illegal possession, mind you there are three places where this thing has happened and I have been to all those 3 places, people here have habit to criticize, saala jo hua galat tha, wo anti nationals thay kyu kyunki wo protest kr rhe thay aur unhone chup chap lathiya khayi, ghar se ghasit kr nikal kr goliya khayi, unki lash ko pani aur zameen mili bas ye meharbaani hui. 

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Tragedies occur when police has to do desperate crowd control with mob violence.  Same guy who is crying foul about kar sevaks being killed, will shout till his lungs go hoarse, justifying those killed or blinded in Kashmir mob violence. 

 

When you participate in mob violence, you are making a choice to risk your personal safety.  A "karsevak" defying orders of the police forces is just as "anti-national" as the Kashmiri idiot throwing stones at the Kashmir police or CRPF.  

 

Mind you I am not justifying any tragic deaths.  But I'm starting to see a lot of Saffron fundooos (fuddooos)  posting here on ICF.  I don't want a Saffron mirror image of greenbros dominating the conversation and pushing the silent majority towards bullying majoritarianism.  

And regarding bullying majortarianism, had the sickulars instead of acting like indiots showed some balls and had the audacity of calling spade a spade, instead of ball licking this situation would not have arrived. 

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2 hours ago, vayuu1 said:

And regarding bullying majortarianism, had the sickulars instead of acting like idiots showed some balls and had the audacity of calling spade a spade, instead of ball licking this situation would not have arrived. 

Vulgar language aside, I don't disagree with you on this.  

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6 minutes ago, vayuu1 said:

if say if say a guy comes to ur house, razes it and makes a house over it and says that is my house will that be a legal possession or illegal possession

This is a bad analogy.  

 

I actually support the construction of a temple in Ayodhya.  But not my use of force, or bullying.  By working out a deal with the Mosque authorities, making them an offer they cannot refuse - not out of fear, but by dangling whatever carrots it takes.  

 

You are getting emotionally worked up and making flawed arguments.  And sorry, but wikipedia articles don't count as reliable sources.

 

Now if excessive force was used and the police broke the law, I am all for follow-up prosecutions.  Just as the same should apply in J&K.  Don't misunderstand me - I have zero sympathy for assholes who hound the J&K Police, military forces and try to help terrorists, they deserve to meet the sharp end of a stick or 2.  But within the law.  I am pragmatic enough to understand that it is always, very difficult for police/army to control a mob that is hostile and getting violent.  Whether that is Anantnag or Ayodhya.  

 

And those who support the mandir construction should not justify illegal actions as a means to a righteous end.  It actually hurts the cause when you do that.  I hope you are able to think through my words rationally without getting your langott all twisted up.  :p:

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7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

This is a bad analogy.  

 

I actually support the construction of a temple in Ayodhya.  But not my use of force, or bullying.  By working out a deal with the Mosque authorities, making them an offer they cannot refuse - not out of fear, but by dangling whatever carrots it takes.  

 

You are getting emotionally worked up and making flawed arguments.  And sorry, but wikipedia articles don't count as reliable sources.

 

Now if excessive force was used and the police broke the law, I am all for follow-up prosecutions.  Just as the same should apply in J&K.  Don't misunderstand me - I have zero sympathy for assholes who hound the J&K Police, military forces and try to help terrorists, they deserve to meet the sharp end of a stick or 2.  But within the law.  I am pragmatic enough to understand that it is always, very difficult for police/army to control a mob that is hostile and getting violent.  Whether that is Anantnag or Ayodhya.  

 

And those who support the mandir construction should not justify illegal actions as a means to a righteous end.  It actually hurts the cause when you do that.  I hope you are able to think through my words rationally without getting your langott all twisted up.  :p:

Bhai langot to ganv dihat ke cheez hai much better than the frenchy that is worn today :hysterical:,the thing is this situation was because of the level of ball licking that the parties was doing in the name of appeasement, I am all for the solution by dialogue but that doesn't mean, you stoop to a level of appeasement that you don't call spade a spade, remember this was observed after the shah banu case that the parties don't want to hurt a community and would do anything to appease even if it's wrong 

Edited by vayuu1

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Tragedies occur when police has to do desperate crowd control with mob violence.  Same guy who is crying foul about kar sevaks being killed, will shout till his lungs go hoarse, justifying those killed or blinded in Kashmir mob violence. 

Tragedies occur. But what isn't fair is to kill/bury the dead in hundreds discreetly and then hide the casualty stats for 28 years. So much hue and cry over Hashimpura but the numbers here are much more, as suggested by the news links. The bodies weren't handed over to relatives/friends/organizations, they were buried (not cremated) in a secretive manner. Those unruly civilians killed in Kashmir aren't taken to a discreet location and burnt to remove evidence, may have happened with a few dreaded jihadis/OGWs but mostly that isn't the case. If 100s of Kashmiris meet the same treatment don't think people won't question the action of the police then. 

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When you participate in mob violence, you are making a choice to risk your personal safety.  A "karsevak" defying orders of the police forces is just as "anti-national" as the Kashmiri idiot throwing stones at the Kashmir police or CRPF.  

The sting suggests that hundreds of unarmed karsevaks and casual watchers were killed by police firing above waist, many of those who weren't threatening the police. "Kashmiri idiots" throw stones to give cover to terrorists and to harm our braves, where is the comparison coming from? So many braves have been martyred at the hands of stone pelters, so many hardcore jihadis have slipped away from our force's fingertips thanks to mob led organized stone pelting for the last 3 decades.

Why not use rubber bullets or water cannons in rest of India to disperse crowds? In Kashmir they use pellet guns but in Ayodhya, Jat agitation, Patel agitation, Dera Sacha Sauda riots.....live bullets were liberally used. Live bullets are hardly used to disperse stone pelters in Kashmir, our braves fight them with hands behind their backs. 

https://twitter.com/Nidhi/status/901025874107027457

https://twitter.com/OmarAbdullah/status/901026997396062208

During DSS riots police firing killed 50 people. Yet the likes of Omar Abdullah and the libtard/NDTV gang were baying for more blood. All the news shows were extra inflammatory asking for more police force, more deaths....can't you see the bloody hypocrisy? When Kashmir sees violence they go against Indian Army but in the opposite cases they want blood of civilians. 

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Mind you I am not justifying any tragic deaths.

Of course you are justifying the deaths in a twisted way. You have made up your mind that they deserved to die and hence the talks about the numbers being much much higher rankle you..because if that is proved to be true it will be more of a pogrom and less of a law/order situation. 1971 war, Sri Lanka civil war, Syria, Iraq, Myanmar..... all saw the discovery of mass graves many years after the conflict/war, they were exposed before the world and it was taken to the highest level. If the govt of the day in UP carried out mass execution and secretively buried civilians, then suppressed the incident, why should that not rankle our conscience? 

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But I'm starting to see a lot of Saffron fundooos (fuddooos)  posting here on ICF.  I don't want a Saffron mirror image of greenbros dominating the conversation and pushing the silent majority towards bullying majoritarianism.  

You came to this conclusion based on this thread. So we are supposed to keep mum and allow the issue to die a death. Let there be no discussion about mass graves because then we will become saffron mirror images of Pakistanis? Is it even possible to be a mirror image of those people, stop talking like Mani Shankar Aiyer or Arundhati Roy. The most extreme Hindutva element in India will show a higher tolerance level than the so called secular, liberal Pakistanis. There is a fundamental difference between the dharmic faith systems and Islam, especially the version Pakistanis follow. But if you want to explain the possibility of us on ICF aping the neighbors do go ahead. 

Edited by Gollum

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19 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Wrong.  I did no such thing.  

Your's was the 4th post in this thread. Look at the 3 posts above that? Did you see anything to warrant the choice of words in your post? The ire was directed at Mulayam, the then UP govt and the UP police force. The issue was that of govt of the day hiding casualty figures, carrying out mass killing and burying the dead discreetly.

 

From there how did it digress to equivalence with Kashmiri stone pelters? Why rationalization of police action when the more pressing worry is a cover up and MSY misleading the nation?

 

What exactly warranted the Saffron fundoo or majoritarianism worry in this thread at least? 

Edited by Gollum

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21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Your's was the 4th post in this thread. Look at the 3 posts above that? Did you see anything to warrant the choice of words in your post? The ire was directed at Mulayam, the then UP govt and the UP police force. The issue was that of govt of the day hiding casualty figures, carrying out mass killing and burying the dead discreetly.

 

From there how did it digress to equivalence with Kashmiri stone pelters? Why rationalization of police action when the more pressing worry is a cover up and MSY misleading the nation?

 

What exactly warranted the Saffron fundoo or majoritarianism worry in this thread at least? 

You are being falsely pedantic by limiting the scope of my comment to "this" thread.  My comment was very clearly directed at a general trend I have observed on ICF, and I said as much.  Not just on this thread.  

 

By the way, nowhere did I "rationalize" any unlawful action.  Merely drew a parallel that came to my mind.  And btw, somehow I'm getting a doubt that the usual suspects on this thread would care much about coverups and misleading the "nation" if the victim wasn't "karsevaks" or hindus.   

 

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A lot of people don't know about somewhat of a precursor to this in 1966

 

http://aadhiabadi.in/gyan-vigyan/history/1236-1966-anti-cow-slaughter-agitation

http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/remembering-the-7th-nov-1966-gopastami-hindu-massacre-in-delhi/

From an interview with Acharya Sohanlal Ramrang, a participant in that rally (as published in Aadhi Abadi by Sandeep Dev), it is divulged that some 5000 was killed in that greatest Hindu killing by Indira Gandhi and Congress in a single day of Gopastami, 7th Nov 1966.  The dead bodies were cleared from the roads and dumped or put in fire in unknown places.

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”इतना सुनना था कि नौजवान संसद भवन की दीवार फांद-फांद कर अंदर घुसने लगे। लोगों ने संसद भवन को घेर लिया और दरवाजा तोड़ने के लिए आगे बढ़े। पुलिसकर्मी पहले से ही लाठी-बंदूक के साथ तैनात थे। पुलिस ने लाठी और अश्रुगैस चलाना शुरू कर दिया। भीड़ और आक्रामक हो गई। इतने में अंदर से गोली चलाने का आदेश हुआ और पुलिस ने भीड़ पर अंधाधुंध फायरिंग शुरू कर दी। संसद के सामने की पूरी सड़क खून से लाल हो गई। लोग मर रहे थे, एक-दूसरे के शरीर पर गिर रहे थे और पुलिस की गोलीबारी जारी थी। नहीं भी तो कम से कम, पांच हजार लोग उस गोलीबारी में मारे गए थे।

बड़ी त्रासदी हो गई थी और सरकार के लिए इसे दबाना जरूरी था। ट्रक बुलाकर मृत, घायल, जिंदा-सभी को उसमें ठूंसा जाने लगा। जिन घायलों के बचने की संभावना थी, उनकी भी ट्रक में लाशों के नीचे दबकर मौत हो गई। हमें आखिरी समय तक पता ही नहीं चला कि सरकार ने उन लाशों को कहां ले जाकर फूंक डाला या जमीन में दबा डाला। पूरे शहर में कफ्र्यू लागू कर दिया गया और संतों को तिहाड़ जेल में ठूंस दिया गया। केवल शंकराचार्य को छोड़ कर अन्य सभी संतों को तिहाड़ जेल में डाल दिया गया। करपात्री जी महाराज ने जेल से ही सत्याग्रह शुरू कर दिया। जेल उनके ओजस्वी भाषणों से गूंजने लगा। उस समय जेल में करीब 50 हजार लोगों को ठूंसा गया था।”

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The moment crowd became out of control, police started lobbing tear gas shells and ordered lathi charge. Soon police started an indiscriminate fire on the crowd. Bodies were falling in heaps. The road in front of the Parliament became red with the blood of the dead and injured. At least 5000 protesters died. To cover the tragedy, Government called trucks and crammed alive, injured and dead in the trucks. Even those alive succumbed under the weight of dead bodies. Till date, no one knows what happened to those taken away in trucks. Whether burnt or buried somewhere. Curfew was imposed and 50000 protesters, along with all the saints except the Shankracharya were put in Tihar jail. Karapatri Ji Maharaj started Satyagraha in Tihar jail. It was the largest killing of Hindus by Indira Gandhi in a single day.

 

Protest peacefully and become "unruly" and get mass slaughtered. Have your bodies carried away in trucks never to be seen/heard from again. If "Hitler" Modi did this to certain tukde tukde types, I wonder what would be said...

 

Edited by Tibarn

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