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SecondSlip

Why did India not fast-track Shivam Mavi like Pakistan did with Shaheen Afridi?

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Also Prasidh Krishna looked like a fantastic propsoect. So many players we can take a punt on. The last time we took a punt on someone like Bumrah see what results that has yielded and we still pick pointless trundlers.

 

Siraj deserved a shot though and may be Khaleel but Chahar,Kaul and Thakur or going back to Unadkut :wall: 

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everything has a flip side

When a side keeps loosing ull see a lot of new player introduced in that side

Its hard to get in winning sides 

 

Plus we now have gotten the pace battery lineup but we dont forget many who are in charge are of old school that india dnt produce fast bowlers. They still cnt get 2 words out from their head - line n length and they dnt even knw about that also 

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Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

everything has a flip side

When a side keeps loosing ull see a lot of new player introduced in that side

Its hard to get in winning sides 

 

Plus we now have gotten the pace battery lineup but we dont forget many who are in charge are of old school that india dnt produce fast bowlers. They still cnt get 2 words out from their head - line n length and they dnt even knw about that also 

Only for tests though. Even there Shami,Ishant,Bumrah and Bhuvi and Umesh. What if 2 or 3 get injured and 1 guy is out of form?

 

For LOIs less said the better. Bhuvi,Bumrah and Shami that’s about it

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2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Only for tests though. Even there Shami,Ishant,Bumrah and Bhuvi and Umesh. What if 2 or 3 get injured and 1 guy is out of form?

 

For LOIs less said the better. Bhuvi,Bumrah and Shami that’s about it

by lineup i meant the stock thats on avl 

Thats why this selection committee gets a bashing despite good result, coz they have the resources but they are not using it 

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WI fasttracked Alzarri Joseph from 2 years back as well who looked a cut above the rest.

 

Mavi and Nagarkoti looked too hot to handle for U-19 level. So did Shaw and Gill. While we fast tracked the batsmen which was never a problem for India we have not fasttracked fast bowlers which is bizarre

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So you’d replace the best bowling attack India has had, ever, per all the numbers for these guys? I already saw 4 different names mentioned up thread...it makes sense to give them India A and such opportunities, but no need to “fast track” anyone unless they can perform.

 

As for why Pakistan did it...the answer is obvious; their current pace attack sucks.

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3 minutes ago, Late Cut said:

So you’d replace the best bowling attack India has had, ever, per all the numbers for these guys? I already saw 4 different names mentioned up thread...it makes sense to give them India A and such opportunities, but no need to “fast track” anyone unless they can perform.

 

As for why Pakistan did it...the answer is obvious; their current pace attack sucks.

What about LOIs?

 

Bumrah. Shami just made his comeback and was out of favor from these formats recently.

 

Bhuvi is just floating along on reputation and is not as indispensable as he looks.

 

The there is Pandya.

 

Do you think that is enough depth?

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52 minutes ago, SecondSlip said:

I think the team management missed a trick here. They should have fast-tracked Mavi into the senior team instead of going back to TTFs like Umesh Yadav & Shardul Thakur. 

 

Both Mavi and Nagarkoti outperformed Afridi during last year’s U19 World Cup, but it’s the Pakistani kid who is already playing for his senior team whereas our 2 boys are nowhere to be seen. We should have also had Mavi established in our senior team by now but messed it up. 

 

Its not like his competition is any better than him. Mavi is still a much better bowler to invest in as compared to trundlers like Khaleel, Chahar, Kaul, Unadkat etc. 

 

Shivam Mavi could have been India’s solution to its 4th pace bowler puzzle for the upcoming World Cup. Had he been fast-tracked into the team, he could have learnt a lot from Bumrah, Shami and Bhuvi at this point. 

simple a pakistani under 19 is actually 25

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Mavi has to be guided properly, he has some ability with bat also.Next SENA trip I hope this guy has cemented a place as an allrounder who could get into team both as bowler and batsman.Too late for this world cup.

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4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He is 20 give him a break.

O ok so he is 20 so you want me to lie and give fale praise and hype him.

 

Ok here goes.  Bowiling much better then rajpoot,  desreves to be in ahead of rajpoot as every time he playes with rajpoot makes rajpoot look poor.  Rajpoot is 25 and pensioner now and so must not praise him

 

ps can only praise mavi for 4 years, after that must be repalced by a 19 year old pacer, as 24 means over the hill

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56 minutes ago, maniac said:

Also Prasidh Krishna looked like a fantastic propsoect. So many players we can take a punt on. The last time we took a punt on someone like Bumrah see what results that has yielded and we still pick pointless trundlers.

 

Siraj deserved a shot though and may be Khaleel but Chahar,Kaul and Thakur or going back to Unadkut :wall: 

We did not take any punt on Bumrah, MI did when he was 19.  Indian selectors picked Bumrah when he was matured enough, had enough FC and IPL cricket under his belt.

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Just now, King Tendulkar said:

O ok so he is 20 so you want me to lie and give fale praise and hype him.

 

Ok here goes.  Bowiling much better then rajpoot,  desreves to be in ahead of rajpoot as every time he playes with rajpoot makes rajpoot look poor.  Rajpoot is 25 and pensioner now and so must not praise him

 

ps can only praise mavi for 4 years, after that must be repalced by a 19 year old pacer, as 24 means over the hill

You are comparing him with Rajpoot who is an experienced bowler.No one is asking to hype him.This is his first season he has played 5 matches and other one has played 50 .

 

Does he have basic tools to succeed is what matters  at his age. Once he gains some experience he will become better if he works hard on his game.But you can't teach speed either you have it or you don't ,this guy has that game changing speed. The next step is give him proper coaching and making sure he is not lost while growing up.

 

What ever little I have seen of him ,I liked him.

 

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6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are comparing him with Rajpoot who is an experienced bowler.No one is asking to hype him.This is his first season he has played 5 matches and other one has played 50 .

 

Does he have basic tools to succeed is what matters  at his age. Once he gains some experience he will become better if he works hard on his game.But you can't teach speed either you have it or you don't ,this guy has that game changing speed. The next step is give him proper coaching and making sure he is not lost while growing up.

 

What ever little I have seen of him ,I liked him.

 

Dont disagree

 

But Rajpoot is only 25 ffs.  He bowls good with genuine swing.  And good pace.  So why not rajpoot over Mavi.  To be honest watched mavi this year did not impress me much, one for the future maybe but needs a lot of work and not wrthy of fast tracking just yet.  Who knows next year comes in to own but right now for me not ready at all

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3 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

Dont disagree

 

But Rajpoot is only 25 ffs.  He bowls good with genuine swing.  And good pace.  So why not rajpoot over Mavi.  To be honest watched mavi this year did not impress me much, one for the future maybe but needs a lot of work and not wrthy of fast tracking just yet.  Who knows next year comes in to own but right now for me not ready at all

Who is Rajpoot going to replace now, is he better than Shami and Bumrah??? Answer is no. Bhuvi is in partly due to his bat.Unless Rajput is second coming of Mcgrath he has no place in world cup squad.

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6 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

Dont disagree

 

But Rajpoot is only 25 ffs.  He bowls good with genuine swing.  And good pace.  So why not rajpoot over Mavi.  To be honest watched mavi this year did not impress me much, one for the future maybe but needs a lot of work and not wrthy of fast tracking just yet.  Who knows next year comes in to own but right now for me not ready at all

Mavi showed great temperament in IPL

Now PPl may say its IPL specially in death overs. And IPL is hard for bowlers 

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Who is Rajpoot going to replace now, is he better than Shami and Bumrah??? Answer is no. Bhuvi is in partly due to his bat.Unless Rajput is second coming of Mcgrath he has no place in world cup squad.

rajpoot shud easily replace umesh yadav 

and our ODI squad has spots left for fast bowling. I think he ll do better then bhuvi in ODIs

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8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

rajpoot shud easily replace umesh yadav 

and our ODI squad has spots left for fast bowling. I think he ll do better then bhuvi in ODIs

Umesh is not in the odi team, Umesh is dynamite for tests in India, he is very good bowler and fast in Indian conditions.Rajpoot won't do better than Bhuvi in odis.You don't replace a known commodity in Bhuvi with an unknown medium fast bowler that too in world cup.If it swings Bhuvi will be deadly too.

Edited by putrevus

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12 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Umesh is not in the odi team, Umesh is dynamite for tests in India, he is very good bowler and fast in Indian conditions.Rajpoot won't do better than Bhuvi in odis.You don't replace a known commodity in Bhuvi with an unknown medium fast bowler that too in world cup.If it swings Bhuvi will be deadly too.

we still have no 4th bowler so umesh is always on radar in odi 

Bhuvi isnt a high benchmark in ODI, record just improved recently a bit or else it was quite bad 

If it swings rajpoot wud be also be damn deadly , he guy has a gr8 outswing n bowls at a far better & gets better bounce due to his height 

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17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

we still have no 4th bowler so umesh is always on radar in odi 

Bhuvi isnt a high benchmark in ODI, record just improved recently a bit or else it was quite bad 

If it swings rajpoot wud be also be damn deadly , he guy has a gr8 outswing n bowls at a far better & gets better bounce due to his height 

I don't think he is better than Bhuvi.If I were a selector and I need to choose between Bhuvi and Ankit I would choose Bhuvi for world cup.After world cup who knows what will happen.

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37 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think he is better than Bhuvi.If I were a selector and I need to choose between Bhuvi and Ankit I would choose Bhuvi for world cup.After world cup who knows what will happen.

On what basis? Bhuvi has been riding the coattails of his teammates for too long, his average and his economy at death are the best examples.

 

How would you know that a rookie may not translate his performances on the big stage?

 

Didnt Kul-Cha replace the top 2 spinners in the world? Didn’t Bumrah make an impact? Hasn’t Pandya been a decent utility in LOIs.

 

Too much conservative thinking

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I don't think he is better than Bhuvi.If I were a selector and I need to choose between Bhuvi and Ankit I would choose Bhuvi for world cup.After world cup who knows what will happen.

no need to choose between 2....both can go and we dnt even have a good fourth fast bowling option as of now 

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play both Rajpoot and mavi against Zimbabwe simple. You anyways would have senior spinners to control the game incase their is lack of experience - Ashwin etc.

 

Why not just take a punt. Its nighttime these guys need to be given chance at home.

 

Jhye Richardson for god damn sake played for Australia and was impressive in his first outing in Test Cricket. 

 

Its time to just give these guys some game time and not the bs t20s, give them proper 5 day games, which anyway won't last more than 3-4 days playing against Zimbabwe. 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

When are we playing against Zimb ?

 

Looks like the tour is in doubt now with IPL moved early. We had 1 test and few Odis with them before World Cup. Thats gone of the radar. I thought they will move right after World Cup when India goes to West Indies, but our schedule is looking tight.

 

Don't see how they can fit that 1 test now with Zimbabwe. I guess its not happening, even though there seems to be no official confirmation of it being cancelled. 

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21 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Looks like the tour is in doubt now with IPL moved early. We had 1 test and few Odis with them before World Cup. Thats gone of the radar. I thought they will move right after World Cup when India goes to West Indies, but our schedule is looking tight.

 

Don't see how they can fit that 1 test now with Zimbabwe. I guess its not happening, even though there seems to be no official confirmation of it being cancelled. 

yea not happening 

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8 minutes ago, Number said:

Afridi was really good in PSL and after that has been consistent at intl level.

Mavi did not look impressive in the IPL.

PSL is generally low scoring in Middle East, while IPL is more run-fest with the conditions which are there in India for t20s, and hence even international players get taken apart unless there is one off bad pitch for batting like we see every now n then in Kolkata or Hyderabad where bowlers like Steyn look good once in blue moon in IPL. Most time every bowler gets taken apart in IPLl, so to expect  fast bowlers from India who get to play just odd games, to do well isn't the right expectation.

 

I would like to actually see Basil Thampi also being named among the prospects. I think he is a brilliant prospect, especially for 50 overs and then can be transitioned slowly in test.

 

He has fire to perform like Bumrah. 

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3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Mavi and Nagarkoti need to be fast tracked to our A-teams.  

 

Mavi, despite a great debut FC season, has not got a chance against England Lions yet.

 

Avesh Khan is playing his first A-team game now.

 

 

Yes, and I would add Basil Thampi to the list. I think he has some fire in him and can be fast tracked at least after World Cup for our 50 over series or somewhere. 

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3 hours ago, Late Cut said:

So you’d replace the best bowling attack India has had, ever, per all the numbers for these guys? I already saw 4 different names mentioned up thread...it makes sense to give them India A and such opportunities, but no need to “fast track” anyone unless they can perform.

 

As for why Pakistan did it...the answer is obvious; their current pace attack sucks.

As if bhuvi and zaleel is farting fire and peeing thunder on the opposition.:hysterical:

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16 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he looked really good in IPL specially in crunch situation

batting quality of IPL n PSL is of diff level 

 

15 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

PSL is generally low scoring in Middle East, while IPL is more run-fest with the conditions which are there in India for t20s, and hence even international players get taken apart unless there is one off bad pitch for batting like we see every now n then in Kolkata or Hyderabad where bowlers like Steyn look good once in blue moon in IPL. Most time every bowler gets taken apart in IPLl, so to expect  fast bowlers from India who get to play just odd games, to do well isn't the right expectation.

 

I would like to actually see Basil Thampi also being named among the prospects. I think he is a brilliant prospect, especially for 50 overs and then can be transitioned slowly in test.

 

He has fire to perform like Bumrah. 

Well I agree about batting quality.

However seeing Mavi getting hit for 4 6s, I could understand why selectors didn't chose him. 

If something like this happens in intl game, his confidence will be gone. So its better to have one when he is ready. 

Afridi to me looked more complete and more mature bowler. 

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6 minutes ago, Number said:

 

Well I agree about batting quality.

However seeing Mavi getting hit for 4 6s, I could understand why selectors didn't chose him. 

If something like this happens in intl game, his confidence will be gone. So its better to have one when he is ready. 

Afridi to me looked more complete and more mature bowler. 

I will tell you situation is plain and simple.

 

If you watch Tennis, you would know there are two draws always - one is the number 1 seed side of the draw and the other the number 2 seed draw. So taking recent grand slam example - Both number and number 1 and number 2 - Djokovic and Nadal continued to destroy all the players. Djokovic though struggled in few games in his side of draw where he dropped a set and got a scare or two. However, Nadal pulverized all opponents in his draw and everyone going into finals thought Nadal is just the best player on tour at the moment and is going to win the Australian Open. It wasn't until they both finally met in the final and Nadal, who hadn't lost a single set, yes a single set through out the tournament, got schooled like a kid by Djokovic in the all important final.

 

Moral of the story - You are as good as your opponents until you have faced the real opposition. I am not saying PSL is played among kids, but you have to factor in the low scoring games which happen in PSL. All young bowlers do well there, including overseas players. 

 

IPL is all about runs most of the time where bowlers have tougher task. 

 

Anyone performing there should be appreciated but we shouldn't look too much into someone getting destroyed, as every great bowler gets destroyed in IPL. 

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Why?Because there is no pressing need.

We have bumrah,shami,ishant,bhuvi,umesh ready in tests.

Bhuvi,shami and bumrah for tests.

 

Siraj has earned the right to be next in line.After that rajpoot,saini and avesh.

Mavi is very young.Give him a couple of years in the domestics -once he's 22 odd and muscles have developed and he has top of the line domestic performance behind him,get him in.

 

The true scandal of indian fast bowling is return of trundlers like khaleel,thakur,kaul,chahar.

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Because our selectors and coach value variety more than impact. KKR's fast bowling line up (barring Vinay Kumar) looks way better than India's reserve bowlers for LOIs. That's how poor some selections have been

 

Nagarkoti, Mavi, Prasidh... That's loads of talent right there.. vs Khaleel, Thakur, Kaul, Unadkat that our selectors have picked..

 

Add Saini, Rajpoot and Siraj to the mix that KKR offers.. Indian pace bowler cupboard looks strong for the next decade. Sad that we haven't been able to use them in this WC...

Maybe coz our first choice wicketkeeper can't handle that pace.

 

Edited by bowl_out

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8 hours ago, Late Cut said:

So you’d replace the best bowling attack India has had, ever, per all the numbers for these guys? I already saw 4 different names mentioned up thread...it makes sense to give them India A and such opportunities, but no need to “fast track” anyone unless they can perform.

 

As for why Pakistan did it...the answer is obvious; their current pace attack sucks.

How about our pace attack? Who do we have after Bhuvi, Bumrah & Shami in ODIs?

 

 

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Pakistan doesn't exactly a long queue of fast bowlers waiting. So he was able to get in early.

Neither does India in ODIs. 
Mavi is still a much better investment than trundlers Khaleel, Thakur, Chahar, Kaul, Unadkat etc. 

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Afridi had a mediocre PSL last year.He bowled one dream spell in which he took 5 wickets and conceded just 4 runs.Besides that performance he was being smashed by the batsmen.

Pakistan tend to pick some players in the team just because of their raw talent but in India one has to go through a process before being selected.

Shaheen would not have been in the ODI team if Pakistan would have played well in Asia Cup.The other pacers struggled and Shaheen was lucky to get the opportunity and he has not looked back since.

Mavi will get opportunities after this world cup but I don't think he is as good as Shaheen.

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Our system works differently to Pakistan.

 

Have Shaw and Gill been fast tracked? No, they banged the door in domestic cricket to make it to the team. Mavi is yet to do that, Has had a decent start to his FC career but yet to get the break through performance (did get a hattrick), He was part of the u-23 team, so he is in the reckoning. 

 

Another thing that did not go in Mavi's favor was below average performance in IPL for KKR,. Shaheen Afridi OTOH took a 5-er in PSL which led to his fast tracking. He then also did well for Pakistan A last year. 

 

Nagerkotti obviously hasn't played since u-19 WC. Has a long road ahead of him after recovering from injury.

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I think the team management missed a trick here. They should have fast-tracked Mavi into the senior team instead of going back to TTFs like Umesh Yadav & Shardul Thakur. 

 

Both Mavi and Nagarkoti outperformed Afridi during last year’s U19 World Cup, but it’s the Pakistani kid who is already playing for his senior team whereas our 2 boys are nowhere to be seen. We should have also had Mavi established in our senior team by now but messed it up. 

 

Its not like his competition is any better than him. Mavi is still a much better bowler to invest in as compared to trundlers like Khaleel, Chahar, Kaul, Unadkat etc. 

 

Shivam Mavi could have been India’s solution to its 4th pace bowler puzzle for the upcoming World Cup. Had he been fast-tracked into the team, he could have learnt a lot from Bumrah, Shami and Bhuvi at this point. 

 

It’s because current Ind pace attack is good enough...well, apart from Khaleel. You don’t need Mavi at this stage.

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