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A R Rahman"s daughter's burqa on stage causes controversy

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28 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Hindus ka kaunsa aisa tradition hai similar to Burka which you want to stop? 

 

 

Women in town in UP,haryana,rajasthan are often seen with a ghoonghat covering the entire face  even in crowded market place. It is such a safety issue for them and other driving on the road because the saree or the duppatta does not even have an 'eye slot ' to see what os ahead. They walk around like blindfolded sheep.

 

Just google ' women in ghoonghat '.

Edited by beetle

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9 minutes ago, beetle said:

Being brainwashed is not really a choice.

 

Being a part of an environment which makes you ashamed of your body in the name of religion or respect of elders/ men or whatever is rarely a matter of choice. Here the bondage very often is in the brain .

 

In cases where the person covers up and calls it choice is similar to a form of skockholm syndrome where the victim is looking for the approval of the oppressors, often her own family,her father ,her brother ,her mother ,her society who make her feel like a good person if she follows their views.

 

Whether it is in the form of a veil, burkha ,ghunghat or even mandatory pallu on the head ,it is all the same.

 

AR Rahman may be a brilliant musician,but he  is also an oppressor for giving an environment to his kids where one is made ashamed of their own body.

 

He being a muslim ,will get away with it because of the hypocricy of the media.

He is another backward thinking person and an abusive parent who has taught his daughters to follow his views and call it a choice.

Self harming is also an individual choice.

 

If any renowned person had appeared on stage with his daughter in a ghoonghat covering her face...the media would be all over that person calling him a jaahil gawaar...but since AR is minority it is a personal choice.

 

 

 

I agree with the gist of your post but it could also be argued that she did choose this lifestyle and it wasn't imposed upon her since her sisters as showed in the pic are seen without a veil.

Maybe it was a choice a after all?

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1 minute ago, Stradlater said:

I agree with the gist of your post but it could also be argued that she did choose this lifestyle and it wasn't imposed upon her since her sisters as showed in the pic are seen without a veil.

Maybe it was a choice a after all?

It is far more complex than that.

 

It is similar to one child in the family being the good sanskari child who always listen to elders, never disobeys,never tries to disagree with their views no matter how regressive the views .

 

The reward is the title of the ' good son ' by the parents and family ....while the other children get to be the kids who do their  own thing,live a normal life without the burden of being the chosen ones.

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12 minutes ago, beetle said:

It is far more complex than that.

 

It is similar to one child in the family being the good sanskari child who always listen to elders, never disobeys,never tries to disagree with their views no matter how regressive the views .

 

The reward is the title of the ' good son ' by the parents and family ....while the other children get to be the kids who do their  own thing,live a normal life without the burden of being the chosen ones.

While Burqa is definitely hideous and ugly but how is it regressive?

Doesn't the whole premise of modern , progressive society rests on the notion of freedom of expression and right to life?

Maybe she really wants to wear it after all.

Im afraid your post makes way too many generalizations.

Mind you I'm not supporting this whole concept of parading on a street while wearing this tent house but shouldn't the individual choice be taken into account too as long as it's not a threat to the society in any way?

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39 minutes ago, beetle said:

Women in town in UP,haryana,rajasthan are often seen with a ghoonghat covering the entire face  even in crowded market place. It is such a safety issue for them and other driving on the road because the saree or the duppatta does not even have an 'eye slot ' to see what os ahead. They walk around like blindfolded sheep.

 

Just google ' women in ghoonghat '.

Beetle ji Ye zyada ho gaya. I come from a village as well and while ladies do use Ghoonghat in the households , they don't take it to the extreme levels you are talking about. Certainly not to the extent of blinding themselves while sitting on a bike.

 

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24 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

While Burqa is definitely hideous and ugly but how is it regressive?

What is the reasoning behind the concept of the burqa ?

 

1) Apparently....first reason is to keep oneself  safe from the  eyes of other men ( with bad intention ,I presume )

 

This puts the burden of safety on woman instead of the men to behave. It also equates women to meat . It also encourages victim blaming and puts the onus of safety on the victim rather than abusers and society.

 

2) The assumption that the body of the woman belongs to her husband / man and only he has a right to see it ...so much so that the woman does not have a right to even show her hair ,her face.

Imagine a life where you cannot feel the wind on your face or hair.

This reduces a woman from a human with a functioning brain to a domestic animal.

 

These two reasons are enough to make the burqa ( or other forms)an opressive instrument.

It is a walking prison .

 

All this talk of choice does not seem logical in an environment which supports the oppression.

 

 

Edited by beetle

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11 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Beetle ji Ye zyada ho gaya. I come from a village as well and while ladies do use Ghoonghat in the households , they don't take it to the extreme levels you are talking about. Certainly not to the extent of blinding themselves while sitting on a bike.

 

Try walking around with your face covered completely with a duppata for a day  . Try balancing two kids on the backseat of a bike while trying to keep the ghoonghat in place.

 

Just because they do it or are expected to do it does not make it less oppressive.

 

Waisay ,can you tell me why women need to cover their faces or head in their homes too?

 

Ghar ke mardon se bhi bachana padta hai kya?Unke samne to free feel kar sakte hain?

 

Don't tell me it is for respect because then I will ask,why the men don't have to cover up to show respect to elders.

 

Mandir mein to sab cover kartein hain to show respect to God....phir why not at home?

Edited by beetle

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This guy was a Hindu convert to Islam, only thing that bugs me :facepalm:

But I won't judge this pic too harshly. The wife and another daughter aren't in ninja suit, so don't think ARR is forcing them. Maybe the girl Khatija is going through a rebellious teenage phase where she wants to stand out from the crowd or go against the flow. I mean all of us have gone through that stage in our lives which if you reminisce about now will have plenty of embarrassing moments, teenagers are difficult !!!! ARR's close sister Reihana is married to a Hindu and follows Hindu customs and traditions still, even their son (GV Prakash) had a Hindu wedding recently with yajna and all that tradition with Mr and Mrs Rahman in attendance....so don't think they are that extreme or inflexible. 

Edited by Gollum

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9 hours ago, Under_Score said:

May be she's trying to be a Ninja :winky: 

On a serious note...in this day & age, it does draw negative attention as in the case mentioned below

1z70co4.jpg

 

Aankhon Se Tune, Yeh Kya Keh Diya 
Dil Ye Deewana, Dhadakne Laga 
Tanhai Mein Hum, Mile Is Tarah 
Baarish Mein Shola, Bhadak Ne Laga

 

:dancing:

Edited by Laaloo

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10 hours ago, Stradlater said:

What if she really wants to wear it? 

Is she making a fashion statement or a religious statement. What if a woman loves her husband so much that she wants to take her life in the traditional Sati way. Hasn’t Indian government decriminalized Suicide few years back?

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10 hours ago, Under_Score said:

May be she's trying to be a Ninja :winky: 

On a serious note...in this day & age, it does draw negative attention as in the case mentioned below

1z70co4.jpg

 

Didn’t Canada recently have a hijab day or something. “Liberal” is such a good thing but idiots have made being  “liberal” like some kind of a benchmark for low Iq. Applies same to the word “conservative”

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1 minute ago, beetle said:

Is this for real or just a photoshop?

Who allows this nonsense?

 

Apparently Burqa is to escape evil eyes of the people. I was in Best Buy in the USA once and this family walked in, couple of the ladies with Burqas and trust me warding of evil eyes concept had the opposite affect on them.

 

Scary part was I had a slight stubble then and I was making sure I wasn’t any where close to them because i would get some evil eyes too if people thought I was part of their family :laugh:

 

 

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On 2/8/2019 at 9:11 PM, maniac said:

AR Rehman follows sufi Islam doesn’t he? And this tent costume is more wahabbi Islam imported from Arabia?

 

 

Enough of the Sufi defence. Kashmir has predominantly followed the Sufi order, did that stop the Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists from getting wiped out a couple of decades back? Go further back in time and we have Sikander Butshikan and his Sufi teachers who ruthlessly made Kashmir a Muslim country. Chechnya and Dagestan even today take pride in their Sufi brand of Islam, that didn't stop the Russian Orthodox Christians from getting massacred in those lands. Similarly the Sufi clerics in Bangladesh in more recent times, hell that mad dog Owaisi and his gutter family are self proclaimed Sufis . Sufi Islam is the Trojan Horse that Islam uses to make inroads in difficult terrain. Where they can't launch a frontal attack they use this card to infiltrate the local population and bide out time before they can start their war. Today many dhimmis go to that dargah in Ajmer. What do they know about Sufi Moinuddin Chishti's links to Ghori and his bigotry against the infidels? All the Sufis right throughout our history have had only one motivation, and that is to convert the infidels....no respect, love or tolerance towards us. And Hindus are such a chewtiya qaum that they have added some of the Sufi saints into their list of endless deities to worship. 

 

I'd rather deal with a Wahhabi Muslim because I know what he/she brings to the table. Never can I trust a so called Sufi and the intentions behind. There is no moderate Islam, all these various strands like Sufi, Salafi, Wahhabi yada yada are equally bad and even their most liberal school will be much worse than the most radical Hindu/Buddhist/Christian groups. After all you can't take a 7th century barbaric desert cult and expect to fit it in the 21st century. All religions have undergone reformation, none of them (except Jainism) were always non-violent/tolerant (for 21st century standards) but over time the violent and contentious parts were deleted or edited. Now that green book is untouchable because allegedly it is the word of God to that prophet of theirs and can't be changed. 

 

Sorry if I come across as an Islamophobe or bigot, I call it the way I see it and am willing to be corrected. I request admins not to unilaterally edit/delete my post, if you can't handle the truth bombs do let me know and I will delete it, don't wanna violate the ICF policy in any way. 

Edited by Gollum

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7 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Enough of the Sufi defence. Kashmir has predominantly followed the Sufi order, did that stop the Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists from getting wiped out a couple of decades back? Go further back in time and we have Sikander Butshikan and his Sufi teachers who ruthlessly made Kashmir a Muslim country. Chechnya and Dagestan even today take pride in their Sufi brand of Islam, that didn't stop the Russian Orthodox Christians from getting massacred in those lands. Similarly the Sufi clerics in Bangladesh in more recent times, hell that mad dog Owaisi and his gutter family are self proclaimed Sufis . Sufi Islam is the Trojan Horse that mental illness called Islam uses to make inroads in difficult terrain. Where they can't launch a frontal attack they use this card to infiltrate the local population and bide out time before they can start their war. Today many dhimmis go to that shithole dargah in Ajmer. What do they know about Sufi Moinuddin Chishti's links to Ghori and his bigotry against the infidels? All the Sufis right throughout our history have had only one motivation, and that is to convert the infidels....no respect, love or tolerance towards us. And Hindus are such a chewtiya qaum that they have added some of the Sufi saints into their list of endless deities to worship. 

 

I'd rather deal with a Wahhabi Muslim because I know what he/she brings to the table. Never can I trust a so called Sufi and the intentions behind. There is no moderate Islam, all these various strands like Sufi, Salafi, Wahhabi yada yada are equally bad and even their most liberal school will be much worse than the most radical Hindu/Buddhist/Christian groups. After all you can't take a 7th century barbaric desert cult and expect to fit it in the 21st century. All religions have undergone reformation, none of them (except Jainism) were always non-violent/tolerant (for 21st century standards) but over time the violent and contentious parts were deleted or edited. Now that green book is untouchable because allegedly it is the word of God to that crazy prophet of theirs and can't be changed. 

 

Sorry if I come across as an Islamophobe or bigot, I call it the way I see it and am willing to be corrected. I request admins not to unilaterally edit/delete my post, if you can't handle the truth bombs do let me know and I will delete it, don't wanna violate the ICF policy in any way. 

No sufi defense. I have got into arguments on this forum for my thoughts on the Sufi system as well

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

No sufi defense. I have got into arguments on this forum for my thoughts on the Sufi system as well

I wasn't pointing towards you in my 1st sentence. Just a general trend I have observed in many places, the term is thrown around casually to make Islam appear more acceptable and less sinister than what it really is. But the damage is irreversible, the propaganda is successful, dhimmis refuse to see the light and Sufi music and references in our songs/movies are par for course. 

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this  is her reply: 

She concluded by requesting people to not make snap judgments about situations before first being aware of all its facets.

The irony is that women are still being told what they can or can't wear, even if it is for their own liberation and empowerment or in the name of liberal secularism. The incident reminds me of the time France banned the burkini in the name of maintaining secularism and what followed was the shameful harassment of a number of Muslim women including old and young who were asked to disrobe in public beaches because well, they were wearing a burkini.

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2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Enough of the Sufi defence. Kashmir has predominantly followed the Sufi order, did that stop the Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists from getting wiped out a couple of decades back? Go further back in time and we have Sikander Butshikan and his Sufi teachers who ruthlessly made Kashmir a Muslim country. Chechnya and Dagestan even today take pride in their Sufi brand of Islam, that didn't stop the Russian Orthodox Christians from getting massacred in those lands. Similarly the Sufi clerics in Bangladesh in more recent times, hell that mad dog Owaisi and his gutter family are self proclaimed Sufis . Sufi Islam is the Trojan Horse that mental illness called Islam uses to make inroads in difficult terrain. Where they can't launch a frontal attack they use this card to infiltrate the local population and bide out time before they can start their war. Today many dhimmis go to that shithole dargah in Ajmer. What do they know about Sufi Moinuddin Chishti's links to Ghori and his bigotry against the infidels? All the Sufis right throughout our history have had only one motivation, and that is to convert the infidels....no respect, love or tolerance towards us. And Hindus are such a chewtiya qaum that they have added some of the Sufi saints into their list of endless deities to worship. 

 

I'd rather deal with a Wahhabi Muslim because I know what he/she brings to the table. Never can I trust a so called Sufi and the intentions behind. There is no moderate Islam, all these various strands like Sufi, Salafi, Wahhabi yada yada are equally bad and even their most liberal school will be much worse than the most radical Hindu/Buddhist/Christian groups. After all you can't take a 7th century barbaric desert cult and expect to fit it in the 21st century. All religions have undergone reformation, none of them (except Jainism) were always non-violent/tolerant (for 21st century standards) but over time the violent and contentious parts were deleted or edited. Now that green book is untouchable because allegedly it is the word of God to that crazy prophet of theirs and can't be changed. 

 

Sorry if I come across as an Islamophobe or bigot, I call it the way I see it and am willing to be corrected. I request admins not to unilaterally edit/delete my post, if you can't handle the truth bombs do let me know and I will delete it, don't wanna violate the ICF policy in any way. 

See, there are exceptional cases everywhere. I for one don't believe the Kashmiris follow Sufi order, nor do I believe owasi is one. They are all fake sufis. True Sufism, the one that is not mainstream refers to the part of Islam which is purely spiritual, more on seeking answers to questions, connecting with god on a spiritual level, finding meaning to the practices, living. Simple life, inner peace etc etc. It is definitely one of the more tolerant practices of Islam. In Sindh and Punjab, Sufism is revered there. With one of the most revered saints in Sindh, being a sufi(Jhulelal). For the most part , sufis are and have been tolerant. The true meaning and core of Sufism has changed throughout the years for better or for worse. There have even been sources saying Sufism originated from Hinduism, and Zen Buddhism , and some sources saying  Sufism predates Islam etc. Though there have been some cases throughout history otherwise, as Islam itself is a radical religion compared to others(Sufism being the lesser of evils). The sufis you have mentioned are usually the fake ones who self proclaim they are sufis just for political and religious ideology, and to fool people(i.e. some of the controversial historic ones, the Kashmiri, Bangladeshi, and Hyderabadi ones you had mentioned.).

 

I can name sufis who were tolerant, followed hindu practices, were against conversion, indulged in music and poetry, art etc. I can even give sources as well as proof. There have been sufis who had been killed/persecuted by kings, rulers, extremist groups and political groups.

 

Again this is not in support of Islam. I am just saying. Sufism is one of the better aspects of Islam, they don't blindly follow the Quran. For bad examples of saints and ideologies, you can take even from other abrahamic religions such as christianity, Judaism, Extremist Islam etc which have countless no of examples of intolerance, conversion, violence, oppression etc.

Edited by I6MTW

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She must have seen this video and got inspired. Hijab promotion saying it is the safety net for intimidation and eve teasing. Can't believe the secular govt and youtube allows such promotion. If it was something similar done by Hindus, these fake secularists would have got their panties in a wad.

 

@velu or somebody can translate, but the language is self explanatory

 

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On 2/8/2019 at 10:06 AM, rkt.india said:

At least, celebrities need to come out of such regressive traditions whether Hindus or Muslims.

I don't think either purdah or burqa are regressive as long as the one who wears it is by one's own choice. Though for security purposes wherever necessary rules or laws should not take into account religious beliefs. In my personal opinion though girls or women should be as beautifully and elegantly dressed as they can. Short or conservatively dressed the overall look must be elegant.

Edited by Pollack

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8 minutes ago, Pollack said:

I don't think either purdah or burqa are regressive as long as the one who wears it is by his choice. Though for security purposes wherever necessary rules or laws should not take into account religious beliefs. In my personal opinion though girls or women should be as beautifully and elegantly dressed as they can. Short or conservatively dressed the overall look must be elegant.

Its already banned in many countries. France was the last one to enforce the ban.

 

 

At workplaces they have started wearing western clothes. Especially the financially well doing girls. Some do not even wear the traditional dress in locality. Muslim girls have started doing inter religion marriage.  Now you can see faces clearly. Some girls have affairs with men from majority. There is a gradual change that can be seen.

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@Gollum is right, Sufis have been involved in Jihad from China in the East, Senegal in the West, and the Soviet Union in the North, and that is not mentioning their so-called "syncretism" in India/Subcontinent. 

 

In fact, one can argue that the cow slaughter issue has its origins due to our "peaceful", "syncretic"  sufis :phehe: 

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33 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

@Gollum is right, Sufis have been involved in Jihad from China in the East, Senegal in the West, and the Soviet Union in the North, and that is not mentioning their so-called "syncretism" in India/Subcontinent. 

 

In fact, one can argue that the cow slaughter issue has its origins due to our "peaceful", "syncretic"  sufis :phehe: 

I think you mean Mali and Niger because Senegal has always remained untouched by Islamic terrorism , the country has been a model of democracy and peaceful transfer of power ( in Africa)  since independence with no history of  Civil Wars,  Coup,  Dictatorship or any other unrest.

 

Lived in  Capital Dakar for nearly a year and I found the place to be competely chilled with Hippie Blacks,    largely influenced by French Culture with locals following a watered down version of Islam with zero extremism, No hatred of kaffirs or Ghazwa -E -Hind type obsession to take over the World. Alcohol and other vices are legal and readily available for the foreigners/tourists  mainly from France who bring a lot of revenue for the locals.  Has a developed Goan Style Party Culture in the Urban Centers. 

Edited by rageaddict

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1 minute ago, rageaddict said:

I think you mean Mali and Niger because Senegal has always remained untouched by Islamic terrorism , the country has been a model of democracy and peaceful transfer of power ( in Africa)  since independence with no history of  Civil Wars,  Coup,  Dictatorship or any other unrest. 

I was thinking of Usman dan Fodio who provided the inspiration for the Sokoto Caliphate in W. Africa in the ~1800s. 

 

This guy inspired the Murid Order of Sufism in Senegal which helped establish Senegal as an Islamic State. 

Sufism and Jihad in Modern Senegal: The Murid Order, by John Glover

murid.png 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Tibarn said:

@Gollum is right, Sufis have been involved in Jihad from China in the East, Senegal in the West, and the Soviet Union in the North, and that is not mentioning their so-called "syncretism" in India/Subcontinent. 

 

In fact, one can argue that the cow slaughter issue has its origins due to our "peaceful", "syncretic"  sufis :phehe: 

In medieval times, Islam came to Kashmir in peace in the form of Sufism, converted the Hindu kng, and when Afgjans attacked, turned against the locals and thats how Islam took over the region. Read the book -- The last queen of Kashmir, the story of Kota Rani.

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27 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

Its a tragedy that a religion with more than a billion followers essentially treats half its population as slaves.

Thay's the Sharia way. Hardcore Muslims truly believe that as per Muslims I have met in Canada(one of the most liberal countries in the world.

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On 2/8/2019 at 8:51 PM, coffee_rules said:

She must have seen this video and got inspired. Hijab promotion saying it is the safety net for intimidation and eve teasing. Can't believe the secular govt and youtube allows such promotion. If it was something similar done by Hindus, these fake secularists would have got their panties in a wad.

 

@velu or somebody can translate, but the language is self explanatory

 

dude how did you find this video?  it has like 250 views.. does it appear on regular tv ads?

message is lolworthy though...women were fully covered initially anyways...just wearing pants/tops just like all the guys. didn't touch on the root cause i.e men.

 

   
 

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