This crazy obsession of electing to field first will cost us in the WC

[Gollum]

Applies to both T20s and ODIs but let us focus on the latter in WC year. I can't understand why we elect to field so often, that too in crucial KO matches and bilateral deciders. The one place where it makes sense is SC where dew can make the ball behave like a slippery bar of soap, problem exacerbated in winter. Or when the pitch has lots of juice in it an hour before toss, but that's rare in ICC tournaments, expect high scoring pattas in England..

 

In WC venue England, dew shouldn't be a big concern...rather based on what we have seen in matches there the pitch sometimes slows down in the second half making timing more difficult. But the genius captain of ours elected to field first in CT final, on a hot, sunny, cloudless day with a flat dry pitch and after having thumped the worst chasing side in history Pakistan in the group encounter....and to add insult to injury, with 2 spinners in the side when the pitch was expected to slow down in second half. 

 

Not just the CT, even the 2015 WC SF and more recently the Asia Cup final (UAE, no major dew problem) showed how difficult it is to chase in a big match. Once the side batting first makes a score, add 50 runs to it to account for the psychological pressure for the chasing side. It is one thing to chase in a Nandi Agarbatti/Hajmola trophy or random JAMODI but to do that when the stakes are so high is madness.

 

Kohli and co may fancy themselves as great chasers but in crucial matches haven't done enough to back that notion. And with our ridiculous batting combination where it is either top 3 or bust, we need to expect them to fire every time (impossible) and even if they do 330 (ODI)/180 (T20) is our limit. In a WC KO stage reduce that further. I wish we had lost the Asia Cup final to Toygers just so that our TM could be exposed for their stupidity, a loss there could have set things right in the grander scheme of things. 

 

Our bowling stocks are so good, we can defend better than chase in a SF or F in 2019 WC. But somehow I believe our TM has become too rigid and delusional about our alleged batting strength. I fully expect a win toss, field first decision in WC F and get into a similar situation like WC 2003 F or CT 2017 F. And then crumble under scorecard pressure, and surrender early on a slowing pitch. We have seen enough examples of those white flag capitulations by our middle order led by Dhoni, none better than the 2015 WC SF or the 2nd ODI in England last year. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Gollum

[VT87]

Because our bowlers are mental  midgets.both wc and ct17 occasions they were  panicked and conceded  330 and 338 runs.we always blamed our batsman but it’s our bowlers who crumbled under pressure.

Edited February 10, 2019 by VT87

[sergio04]

our bowlers apart bumrah and kuldeep are club level

[Stradlater]

 

4 minutes ago, sergio04 said:

our bowlers apart bumrah and kuldeep are club level

 

10 minutes ago, VT87 said:

Because our bowlers are mental  midgets.both wc and ct17 occasions they were  panicked and conceded  330 and 338 runs.we always blamed our batsman but it’s our bowlers who crumbled under pressure.

Some of you armchair critics never cease to amaze me.

One day we have the best bowling attack and after one smacking in a meaningless t20 game which nobody cares about, our bowlers become mental midgets.

 

You lot are worse than Green fans.

[R!TTER]

Whoever thinks that anyone apart from Bumrah or Kuldeep are world class needs to get their heads checked - we don't have best bowling attack in LO, though Shami if he's fit & consistent gets us in the top 3 for sure. Zaleel, BK & Pandya are indeed club level on pancake wickets.

[Stradlater]

4 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Whoever thinks that anyone apart from Bumrah or Kuldeep are world class needs to get their heads checked - we don't have best bowling attack in LO, though Shami if he's fit & consistent gets us in the top 3 for sure. Zaleel, BK & Pandya are indeed club level on pancake wickets.

Shami is a world class bowler in ODIs.

That gives us three international class bowlers with a valuable support from Hàrdik/Bhuvi.

That's what happens when fans start taking international T20 results seriously.

 

[R!TTER]

Shami is good, great on his day but then he wasn't played in CT final was he? Also BK & Pandya - did you see the pasting they got here or any other flat wicket in the last year or two 

Edited February 10, 2019 by R!TTER

[sergio04]

Just like our top order hides our middle order woes 

bumrah and kuldeep hides other medicore bowlers

[Stradlater]

12 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Shami is good, great on his day but then he wasn't played in CT final was he? Also BK & Pandya - did you see the pasting they got here or any other flat wicket in the last year or two 

CT final was around 2 years ago. Stop obsessing with it like a teenage Pakistani chick.

 

NZ grounds are tiny with little or no help to bowlers on these pitches prepared for T20s. Did you see the incredible phainta we gave to them in the ODI series where Shami begged three MOTMs?

[R!TTER]

Just now, Stradlater said:

CT final was around 2 years ago. Stop obsessing with it like a teenage Pakistani chick.

 

NZ grounds are tiny with little or no help to bowlers on these pitches prepared for T20s. Did you see the incredible phainta we gave to them in the ODI series where Shami begged three MOTMs?

Stop making **** up that doesn't exist! What other tools do BK or Pandya have when the ball is not swinging, alright Pandya can crank it up a bit but BK is nearly useless on flat tracks. And this isn't just CT, happened in Mumbai 2015 with BK, against Aus in 2016, Eng in 2018 & other such instances as well. Do you think it's a coincidence that he avg nearly 40 in LO until recently? No need to bring up his recent performances against second string Aus!

[Gollum]

Bhuvi is over rated...Bumrah, Shami, Hardik, Kulcha, Jadhav is formidable and should be our combo in a big match. 

 

Anyway this thread is about the TM strategy and not to discuss merits and demerits of our bowling unit. There are enough threads for that. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Gollum

[R!TTER]

Just now, Gollum said:

Bhuvi is over rated...Bumrah, Shami, Hardik, Kulcha, Jadhav is formidable and should be our combo in a big match. 

 

Anyway this thread is about the TM strategy and not to discuss merits and demerits of our bowling unit. There are enough threads for that. 

TM strategy is *ed as usual, if last year has taught us anything it's that TM i.e. mainly Kohli, will find ways to lose against inferior teams, toss advantage or disadvantage notwithstanding!

[velu]

we are testing our batting  

[R!TTER]

No TM is testing fans' patience!

[zen]

I had expected the captain winning the toss to bat first .... Now that Ind is chasing 213, which is a chasable on this pitch, I expected some innovative thinking like sending some big hitter to maximize the powerplay. Ended up with 57 runs, when the minimum expectations was for 75 (reverse numbers) 

[Gollum]

Once again shows the importance of batting first in deciders and high pressure matches. Now Kohli may think the opposite but history of this sport suggests that unless there is possibility of heavy dew later on or the deck is damp/green 15 minutes before the toss, it is always advisable to bank on scorecard pressure in the big games. In England, dew won't be a factor, in fact pitch may slow down in the 2nd innings. Unless it is a green mamba where 150 is par score, better to bat first. In an ICC event we will get true pitches which means we have to look to bat first in the big games. Our chasing prowess is over rated as *, Kohli too is a poor chaser when the stakes are high. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Gollum

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

England is a tricky place. Unless odds are tilted heavily in favour of batting second, it is always advisable to put a score in crunch games

[Gollum]

Has this TM finally learnt its lesson? Wish we had batted first in the CT final, Kumble wanted precisely that. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Gollum

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

Has this TM finally learnt its lesson? Wish we had batted first in the CT final, Kumble wanted precisely that. 

You're expecting too much. Shastri and VK couldn't learn a lesson even if waltzed in naked and proceeded to dance in front of them.