Jump to content
FischerTal

2019 Lok Sabha elections thread

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

If BJP gets over 300 then its time for congress to divorce themselves from the Gandhis,millions of people will never vote for congress as long as they are headed by the idiot and his family.

Honestly that’s the only thing we want. Congress as opposition is required in India. However, The gandhi family are just a bunch of termites who care zilch about India or its people. 

Edited by FischerTal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Kerala is a bummer, this coming after Sabarimala....Mallu Hindus are biggest dhimmis cum slaves in India.

Will wait for vote share on Thursday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look who is NDTV getting to talk on ExitPoll day! Who is stopping others to give interviews to media. Koi baath nahin kar raha. Sudheendra is a former Advani aide, still burning that his Guru has been sidelined.

 

 

 

Edited by coffee_rules

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just loving the fight between Anjana Om Kashyap & Rajdeep Sardesai. :pop2: Both working for the same organization, Rajdeep derided her on not asking tough questions to the PM & Anjana giving him back on his saas-bahu questions to Sonia Gandhi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TINA my a$$ ... Libbus your options were MGB, MB, RG, PV, even lallu and CBN. Now when trends show otherwise, Libbu undermining Modi's achievement by singing TIsssNssA, TIsssNssA.

 

You are supposed to be intelligent lot of the country. I dont know about intelligence but for sure hypocrites #1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, diga said:

Let's wait till Thursday.... hopefully no klpds

:pray: but these pollsters are in big business nobody wants to put their rept on risk. So fairly confident..

Edited by coffee_rules

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

why? what have national parties done for the south? Kerala is the most highly educated state in the country and congress was in power for a long time but didnt do anything for development.In karnataka all the BJP did was loot the state with the reddy bros and others while in power.

One should not confuse literacy with education. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lannister said:

Exit polls are pure numbers. Sampling statistic. The key thing to observe is where the number aligns with expectation or sentiment on ground. In this case, numbers only indicate what the mood was on ground. So I would attach some credibility. 

 

However there is is a margin of error which can swing either way. But it will require a huge swing for there to be another result. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Exit polls are pure numbers. Sampling statistic. The key thing to observe is where the number aligns with expectation or sentiment on ground. In this case, numbers only indicate what the mood was on ground. So I would attach some credibility. 

 

However there is is a margin of error which can swing either way. But it will require a huge swing for there to be another result. 

So what's the mood among the people? It was obvious during the last elections but it's a 50-50 this time around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on 2014 exit polls and assembly elections exit polls, statewise best pollsters

Maharashtra - Nielsen and Cvoter. Cvoter got every 95% of seats right in MH 2014 in a 4-way contest.

UP - Chankya and Axis both got very close but still underestimated BJP by 10%. CVoter was 50% off.

Bihar - Axis hands down( only one to predict NDA rout in assembly correctly)

West Bengal - Axis overestimated TMC while Chankya got exact numbers for TMC INC-Left alliance.

Karnataka - NewsX and JanKiBaat. Cvoter too was close.

 

Since both Axis and Chankya are giving UP 65 to BJP I feel we might just get complete MGB INC rout even 75+ in UP is possible.

Maharashtra shall be 34-36 for NDA.

Karnataka - 16-18.

Overall it should adjust BJP to 270 and NDA around 310.

 

Edited by Number

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not much surprises when it comes to LS elections this time...expected comfortable win for NDA. I am mainly curios about assembly elections in my state this time (AP)...it's gonna be super tight. Even some reliable exit polls agencies have made contrasting predictions for AP this time.  Personally, I think Jagan is going to edge this one....CBN has been acting strangely in last few days with all these meetings with 3rd front leaders.

 

 One thing for sure, I don't see either of BJP, Congress winning a single LS seat in AP atleast in near future. Congress though have royally messed up the way they handled Andhra over last decade. It used to be such a major state for Congress, it went from winning 32 seats in 2009 to almost 0-1 in both Telugu States this time. It has totally disappeared in Andhra now, all their major leaders also shifted to TDP, YCP. KCR is trying to do the same thing in Telengana. BJP has almost zero presence in Andhra, I don't think it's gonna change in near future..but atleast in Telengana, I think BJP can slowly get better in future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lannister said:

So what's the mood among the people? It was obvious during the last elections but it's a 50-50 this time around. 

Where is the other 50 ? To me this the issue. You have got one clear PM candidate and you have got a blurr on the other side. It’s a no alternative election. Maybe, some people are not enthusiastic this time, but when they look at the opposition, they have to go with clear choice. 

Edited by ravishingravi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the fact that their entire community, right from ex-VP to Abdul puncturewala votes en-masse for one ideological goal doesn't bother them, but if other side does it, they are fascists. ambedkar was right, there needed to be a complete population transfer during partition. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FischerTal said:

the fact that their entire community, right from ex-VP to Abdul puncturewala votes en-masse for one ideological goal doesn't bother them, but if other side does it, they are fascists. ambedkar was right,

 

They deliberately remain in denial regarding Ambedkar's views about Islam/Muslims :phehe:

Had he been alive today he would have been branded communal, bigot, sanghi, fascist, Islamophobe etc. 

Quote

Islam is a close corporation and the distinction that it makes between Muslims and non-Muslims is a very real, very positive and very alienating distinction. The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. There is a fraternity, but its benefit is confined to those within that corporation. For those who are outside the corporation, there is nothing but contempt and enmity. The second defect of Islam is that it is a system of social self-government and is incompatible with local self-government, because the allegiance of a Muslim does not rest on his domicile in the country which is his but on the faith to which he belongs. Wherever there is the rule of Islam, there is his own country. In other words, Islam can never allow a true Muslim to adopt India as his motherland and regard a Hindu as his kith and kin."

 

On the allegiance of a Muslim to his motherland [India], Ambedkar writes:

Among the tenets one that calls for notice is the tenet of Islam which says that in a country which is not under Muslim rule, wherever there is a conflict between Muslim law and the law of the land, the former must prevail over the latter, and a Muslim will be justified in obeying the Muslim law and defying the law of the land.

 

He further adds on.

"To the Muslims a Hindu is a Kaffir. A Kaffir is not worthy of respect. He is low-born and without status. That is why a country which is ruled by a Kaffir is Dar-ul-Harb to a Musalman. Given this, no further evidence seems to be necessary to prove that the Muslims will not obey a Hindu government. The basic feelings of deference and sympathy, which predispose persons to obey the authority of government, do not simply exist. But if proof is wanted, there is no dearth of it. It is so abundant that the problem is what to tender and what to omit…In the midst of the Khilafat agitation, when the Hindus were doing so much to help the Musalmans, the Muslims did not forget that as compared with them the Hindus were a low and an inferior race.”

 

He was also skeptic of Mahatma Gandhi on his silence of atrocities on Hindus by Muslims which he writes.

Mr. Gandhi has been very punctilious in the matter of condemning any and every act of violence and has forced the Congress, much against its will to condemn it. But Mr Gandhi has never protested against such murders of Hindus. Not only have the Musalmans not condemned these outrages, but even Mr Gandhi has never called upon the leading Muslims to condemn them. He has kept silent over them. Such an attitude can be explained only on the ground that Mr Gandhi was anxious to preserve Hindu-Moslem unity and did not mind the murders of a few Hindus, if it could be achieved by sacrificing their lives...This attitude to excuse the Muslims any wrong, lest it should injure the cause of unity, is well illustrated by what Mr Gandhi had to say in the matter of the Mopla riots. The blood-curdling atrocities committed by the Moplas in Malabar against the Hindus were indescribable. All over Southern India, a wave of horrified feeling had spread among the Hindus of every shade of opinion, which was intensified when certain Khilafat leaders were so misguided as to pass resolutions of "congratulations to the Moplas on the brave fight they were conducting for the sake of religion". Any person could have said that this was too heavy a price for Hindu-Moslem unity. But Mr Gandhi was so much obsessed by the necessity of establishing Hindu-Moslem unity that he was prepared to make light of the doings of the Moplas and the Khilafats who were congratulating them. He spoke of the Moplas as the "brave God-fearing Moplas who were fighting for what they consider as religion and in a manner which they consider as religious

Quote

Dr. Ambedkar views on Islam are like an eye opener especially for dalits who for their political vested interests are singing the glory of Dalit-Muslims unity. In reality few Dalit leaders are thinking that by this illogical and incompatible association between Dalits and Muslims they could votes on name of secularism. But the ground reality is totally different. Since centuries Dalits faced the wrath from Islamic rulers. They were given two options. Either to convert to Islam or to carry human excreta on their head. The readers will be surprised to know that they choose to carry excreta rather than Kalma and Kuran. We Hindus today must show deep respect to those ancestors for who accepted maltreatment but didn’t left their faith in Vedic Dharma. We are honor them for their great devotion and loyalty in Rama and Krishna.

 

Dr Ambedkar was aware of this Historical maltreatment by Muslim rulers. He was given multiple incentives by Muslims to accept Islam. The nawab of Hyderabad offered him billions of rupees to accept Islam. But he simple refused his offer. Because he was viewing the intentions behind that offer. The offer to convert to Islam instead of helping the Dalits would have made the conditions of Dalit more and more worse.

 

Dr Ambedkar writes his thoughts about Islam in his book “Pakistan or the Partition of India”

 

Ambedkar writes, “The Muslim invaders, no doubt, came to India singing a hymn of hate against the Hindus. … Its (Islam’s) growth is so thick in Northern India that the remnants of Hindu and Buddhist culture are just shrubs. Even the Sikh axe could not fell this oak. Sikhs, no doubt , became the political masters of Northern India, but they did not gain back Northern India to that spiritual and cultural unity by which it was bound to the rest of India before HsuanTsang.”

 

Ref.“Pakistan or the Partition of India”, Chapter 4

It is interesting to note that despite his views on casteism in Hinduism, Ambedkar saw Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism as ONE Indian culture, at the same time, categorically calling Islam an alien culture. He writes,

“From a spiritual point of view, Hindus and Musalmans are not merely two classesor two sects such as Protestants and Catholics or Shaivas and Vaishnavas. They are two distinct species... For them Divinity is divided and with the division of Divinity their humanity is divided and with the division of humanity they must remain divided. There is nothing to bring them in one bosom.”

Ref.“Pakistan or the Partition of India”, Chapter 6

Ambedkar had unequivocally advocated for a population exchange in case of division. Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan come to India, and Muslims from India, got to Pakistan. In fact, both Savarkar and RSS were trying to keep India undivided, but Ambedkar, had other views which he articulated in same book. Some of these observations can be in sync with the reality today.

“That the transfer of minorities is the only lasting remedy for communal peace is beyond doubt. .. there is no reason to suppose that what they did cannot be accomplished by Indians. After all, the population involved is inconsiderable and because some obstacles require to be removed, it would be the height of folly to give up so sure a way to communal peace... The only way to make Hindustan homogeneous is to arrange for exchange of population. Until that is done, it must be admitted that even with the creation of Pakistan, the problem of majority vs. minority will remain in Hindustan as before and will continue to produce disharmony in the body politic of Hindustan.”

Ref.“Pakistan or the Partition of India”, Chapter 6

Ambedkar condemned Mahatma Gandhi on his double standards he adopted on Hindu killings v/s Muslim killings.

Ambedkar, in the same book, has severely criticized Gandhi for his duplicity and double standards he adopted on Hindu killings v/s Muslim killings. He writes, “But Mr. Gandhi has never protested against such murders. Not only have the Musalmans not condemned these outrages but even Mr. Gandhi has never called upon the leading Muslims to condemn them. He has kept silent over them. Such an attitude can be explained only on the ground that Mr. Gandhi was anxious to preserve Hindu-Muslim unity and did not mind the murders of a few Hindus, if it could be achieved by sacrificing their lives. This attitude to excuse the Muslims any wrong, lest it should injure the cause of unity, is well illustrated by what Mr. Gandhi had to say in the matter of the Moplah riots. The blood-curdling atrocities committed by the Moplas in Malabar against the Hindus were indescribable. All over Southern India, a wave of horrified feeling had spread among the Hindus of every shade of opinion, which was intensified when certain Khilafat leaders were so misguided as to pass resolutions of " congratulations to the Moplas on the brave fight they were conducting for the sake of religion". Any person could have said that this was too heavy a price for Hindu-Muslim unity. But Mr. Gandhi was so much obsessed by the necessity of establishing Hindu-Muslim unity that he was prepared to make light of the doings of the Moplas and the Khilafats who were congratulating them. He spoke of the Moplas as the "brave God-fearing Moplas who were fighting for what they consider as religion and in a manner which they consider as religious ".

Ambedkar criticized Islam for Caste system

And, while Ambedkar later renounced Hinduism due to caste system, he has elaborated how Islam too had an elaborate caste system (again in practice, even though Quran speaks against any division in Islam as an evil).

“Islam speaks of brotherhood. Everybody infers that Islam must be free from slavery and caste. Regarding slavery nothing needs to be said. It stands abolished now by law. But while it existed much of its support was derived from Islam and Islamic countries… The existence of these evils among the Muslims is distressing enough. But far more distressing is the fact that there is no organized movement of social reform among the Musalmans of India on a scale sufficient to bring about their eradication. The Hindus have their social evils. But there is this relieving feature about them—namely, that some of them are conscious of their existence and a few of them are actively agitating for their removal. The Muslims, on the other hand, do not realize that they are evils and consequently do not agitate for their removal. Indeed, they oppose any change in their existing practices. It is noteworthy that the “Muslims opposed the Child-Marriage Bill brought in the Central Assembly in 1930, whereby the age for marriage of a girl was raised to 14 and of a boy to 18 on the ground that it was opposed to the Muslim canon law. Not only did they oppose the bill at every stage but that when it became law they started a campaign of Civil Disobedience against that Act. Fortunately the Civil Disobedience campaign of the Muslims against the Act did not swell and was submerged in the Congress Civil Disobedience campaign which synchronized with it. But the campaign only proves how strongly the Muslims are opposed to social reform.”

He further writes, “Having been taught that outside Islam there can be no safety; outside its law no truth and outside its spiritual message there is no happiness, the Muslim has become incapable of conceiving any other condition than his own, any other mode of thought than the Islamic thought. He firmly believes that he has arrived at an unequalled pitch of perfection; that he is the sole possessor of true faith, of the true doctrine, the true wisdom ; that he alone is in possession of the truth—no relative truth subject to revision, but absolute truth.”

Ambedkar Criticized Muslims for their aggression against Hindus

And, Ambedkar also writes, “The third thing that is noticeable is the adoption by the Muslims of the gangster's method in politics. The riots are a sufficient indication that gangsterism has become a settled part of their strategy in politics. .. So long as the Muslims were the aggressors, the Hindus were passive, and in the conflict they suffered more than the Muslims did. But this is no longer true. The Hindus have learned to retaliate and no longer feel any compunction in knifing a Musalman. This spirit of retaliation bids fair to produce the ugly spectacle of gangsterism against gangsterism.”

In chapter 12, he observes, “Among the tenets one that calls for notice is the tenet of Islam which says that in a country which is not under Muslim rule wherever there is a conflict between Muslim law and the law of the land, the former must prevail over the latter and a Muslim will be justified in obeying the Muslim law and defying the law of the land.”

Ambedkar talks in practical terms

“Islam is a close corporation and the distinction that it makes between Muslims and non-Muslims is a very real, very positive and very alienating distinction. The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. There is a fraternity but its benefit is confined to those within that corporation. For those who are outside the corporation, there is nothing but contempt and enmity. ... In other words, Islam can never allow a true Muslim to adopt India as his motherland and regard a Hindu as his kith and kin. That is probably the reason why Maulana Mahomed Ali, a great Indian but a true Muslim, preferred to be buried in Jerusalem rather than in India.”

It is for the Muslim scholars to rebut or validate what Ambedkar has written about Islam. But, the secular politicians, who invoke Ambedkar in everything relating to Dalit politics, and have formed a Dalit-Muslim alliance, should also clarify if they agree to what Ambedkar has written.

Regarding Dalit-Muslim Unity

Let us agree to disagree!

 

Quote

there needed to be a complete population transfer during partition. 

That would have been so good, huge blunder when we had the opportunity to reset things and begin afresh.

Edited by Gollum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

They deliberately remain in denial regarding Ambedkar's views about Islam/Muslims :phehe:

Had he been alive today he would have been branded communal, bigot, sanghi, fascist, Islamophobe etc. 

 

That would have been so good, huge blunder when we had the opportunity to reset things and begin afresh.

ambedkar was pragmatic and understood the hardcore realities of India, whether it be caste or religion. gandhi was your fairy tale liberal of the 1970s who would have teary eyes while watching amar Akbar Anthony, not even attempting to see that it has no bearing on reality. 

Edited by FischerTal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FischerTal said:

ambedkar was pragmatic and understood the hardcore realities of India, whether it be caste or religion. gandhi was your fairy tale liberal of the 1970s who would have teary eyes while watching amar Akbar Anthony, not even attempting to see that it has no bearing on reality. 

My respect for Ambedkar has only grown in recent times. Used to have a negative opinion about him while growing up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...