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Sourav Ganguly disagrees with Ravi Shastri's idea of playing Virat Kohli at No.4

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Former Indian captain Sourav Ganguly expressed his disagreement over head coach Ravi Shastri's idea of playing skipper Virat Kohli at No.4 while explaining that India's top-three in the batting lineup remains the team strength going into the World Cup 2019 in England in summer. 

"Virat Kohli will be coming back in the series to play at No.3. I was reading in the papers that Ravi [Shastri] wants him to play at No.4 but I don't know who will play at No.3 then. Maybe Ambati Rayudu will play at No.3 with Kohli at No.4 but I don't think that it is the right move  because Kohli at No.3 is a huge player and this is India's strength in ODIs -- Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma and Virat Kohli," Ganguly said in IndiaTV's show Cricket ki Baat on Sunday.

It was earlier last week that Shastri, in an interview with Cricbuzz, expressed the flexibility of the top-order and that they can be separated as in when the team requires. It right after these words that Shastri opined sending Kohli at No.4 and put a good number three ahead to bring more balance to the side. 

"The good thing about this Indian top-three is we can separate them if conditions and situations demand. Someone like Virat Kohli can go to number four, and we can put a good number three to bring more balance to the batting line-up. That's flexibility for you, and for big tournaments like the World Cup, you have to be flexible to see what's the best balance for the side. So we will decide that (accordingly in England)," Shastri said.

The Indian coach reckons that separating top-three can make Indian batting stronger, contrary to most veterans of the game. But for Shastri, he questioned the idea of an early dismal of someone like Kohli on a bowling-friendly condition when he can actually hold him back a position. 

"Yes, maybe Rayudu, or someone else, could bat at number three, and Kohli comes in at number four. We wouldn't want to disturb the opening combination. Separating the top-three could make the batting stronger.

"But we will assess that on seeing conditions in England. You don't want to be 18-3 or 16-4 in a big tournament. I don't care about bilateral ODIs, but why should I lose my best batsman early in a World Cup match (if the conditions are bowler friendly)?," he added when asked if Rayudu will come in at No.3 in place of Kohli.

 

Link- https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/cricket/article/sourav-ganguly-plays-down-ravi-shastris-idea-of-playing-virat-kohli-at-no/363779

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10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

"But we will assess that on seeing conditions in England. You don't want to be 18-3 or 16-4 in a big tournament. I don't care about bilateral ODIs, but why should I lose my best batsman early in a World Cup match (if the conditions are bowler friendly)?," he added when asked if Rayudu will come in at No.3 in place of Kohli.

 

 

shastriji mildly putting rayudu will be used as night watchmen in the odi game :phehe: 

 

anywya if we are going to sacrifice rayudu at #3 if the conditions are bowler friendly , when dont we just ask him to open ? :hmmmm2:

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39 minutes ago, Khota said:

I agree with Ganguly. Your best bats should be on the front end and not back.

yeah in Test cricket .

in LOIs stacking all your best players at the top is going to back fire big time .

 

its not a coincidence that we where the biggest chokers when we had Tendulkar/Ganguly/Dravid at the top , hold the record for losing IIRC 17+ finals  during that period . its happening again after a good phase of 5-6 years , we have been choking even chasing 270 type totals  lately . We should have learn from CT finals that you cannot come back for a 10/3 or even a 10/2 situation if the batsmen lost are your best players . 

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WHy is this even a discussion i don't understand. What sort of confidence this team management sends down to their middle order. As much as guys like Rayudu sucks, you gotta back your horses without telling them "You suck we are going to play you anyway". If they are not so confident about the middle order why did they even back them in the first place? 

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4 hours ago, jusarrived said:

 

yeah in Test cricket .

in LOIs stacking all your best players at the top is going to back fire big time .

 

its not a coincidence that we where the biggest chokers when we had Tendulkar/Ganguly/Dravid at the top , hold the record for losing IIRC 17+ finals  during that period . its happening again after a good phase of 5-6 years , we have been choking even chasing 270 type totals  lately . We should have learn from CT finals that you cannot come back for a 10/3 or even a 10/2 situation if the batsmen lost are your best players . 

You will invariably lose wkts if you weak at the front.

CT was lost because of 5 passengers in the team.

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4 hours ago, jusarrived said:

 

yeah in Test cricket .

in LOIs stacking all your best players at the top is going to back fire big time .

 

its not a coincidence that we where the biggest chokers when we had Tendulkar/Ganguly/Dravid at the top , hold the record for losing IIRC 17+ finals  during that period . its happening again after a good phase of 5-6 years , we have been choking even chasing 270 type totals  lately . We should have learn from CT finals that you cannot come back for a 10/3 or even a 10/2 situation if the batsmen lost are your best players . 

he comes at 3 or 4 , all it wud take is one ball to dismiss

u have to see where he is best and most comfertable at which is 3....

telling opp that we are saving our best batsman is a defensive startegy

giving rayudu more balls then kohli is a gift hamper to opp 

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You cant have 6 kohlis or 6  Rayudhu’s, You win it with what you got. But Shashtriji is simply saying everyone that once Kohli is out, we are done. 

Didnt Rayudhu win a game by his batting?

 

Prepare a pinch hitter, Do not sacrifice a bat.

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The way I am reading things, Rayudu won't be a part of world cup squad. Even if he is, surely won't be in playing XI against big teams. The team management fully understand that Rayudu is not a big match player. Remember how Stuart Binny was always in the team before WC2015 but was dropped when the actual tournament started. Ambati Rayudu will face the same fate this time.

 

The way I am reading things, team management is thinking of playing 3 openers followed by Kohli. Rahul/Shaw (mostly Rahul) will bat at 3. Also, Dhawan seems to have lost his form a bit which is the reason to go with 3 openers and to not expose Kohli too early. 

 

Dhawan (to give us brisk start)

Rohit (will aim to play sheet anchor)

Rahul ( extra protection if openers fail)

Kohli (Middle order/finisher)

Dhoni (:cantstop:)

Pant (dasher who will go all guns blazing)

Pandya (same as above)

 

I think the above  will be  the team when the actual event starts.

Edited by Austin 3:!6

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16 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

The way I am reading things, Rayudu won't be a part of world cup squad. Even if he is, surely won't be in playing XI against big teams. The team management fully understand that Rayudu is not a big match player. Remember how Stuart Binny was always in the team before WC2015 but was dropped when the actual tournament started. Ambati Rayudu will face the same fate this time.

 

The way I am reading things, team management is thinking of playing 3 openers followed by Kohli. Rahul/Shaw (mostly Rahul) will bat at 3. Also, Dhawan seems to have lost his form a bit which is the reason to go with 3 openers and to not expose Kohli too early. 

 

Dhawan (to give us brisk start)

Rohit (will aim to play sheet anchor)

Rahul ( extra protection if openers fail)

Kohli (Middle order/finisher)

Dhoni (:cantstop:)

Pant (dasher who will go all guns blazing)

Pandya (same as above)

 

I think the above  will be  the team when the actual event starts.

Very apt :cantstop:. But sadly you're wrong about Rayudu. He's nailed on to be in first XI at least at the start of the tournament.

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16 hours ago, Khota said:

You will invariably lose wkts if you weak at the front.

CT was lost because of 5 passengers in the team.

Again its LOIs you are confusing between formats .

weak in the front ? lol look at any team do you see one which has a weak top order ? 

 

I keep giving Pakistanis example cos of their poor batting standards , have a look at their top 3 and play in SC conditions more often like us .

Imam ( Avg of 55 ) , Fakhar ( Avg of 53)  and Babar (Avg of 51 )

Only Babar is decent , the other two are as mediocre as they come . 

 

Some of you havent been watching cricket if you think its tough to replace our top order .  

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he comes at 3 or 4 , all it wud take is one ball to dismiss

u have to see where he is best and most comfertable at which is 3....

telling opp that we are saving our best batsman is a defensive startegy

giving rayudu more balls then kohli is a gift hamper to opp 

Virat is only batsmen who can bat anywhere . its not defensive , but asking your best batsmen to take more responsibilities . Hes easily the best No3 ever , but hasnt done anything of note in LOIs for a long time and has been just an accumulator lately.  The top order never plays under pressure , thats where you need soft players or limited ones like Rayudu/Rohit ..its when the going gets tough you need some one like Virat . Hes going to win us more matches down the order . 

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I think this may be Virat's idea , can see him doing this for the team . This where he will surpass Tendulkar every regard imo . We needed Tendulkar to come down the order back in 2002/3 and let Sehwag/Ganguly open which would have made the linup more balanced , Ganguly realized that . Just like Virat , Tendulkar was one batsmen who could bat anywhere , he could have been a finisher we never had  but unfortunately priority was scoring hundreds  and we had experts tell how best batsmen should face maximum balls , score hundreds and this automatically results into teams winning ? We know its not true 

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27 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Virat is only batsmen who can bat anywhere . its not defensive , but asking your best batsmen to take more responsibilities . Hes easily the best No3 ever , but hasnt done anything of note in LOIs for a long time and has been just an accumulator lately.  The top order never plays under pressure , thats where you need soft players or limited ones like Rayudu/Rohit ..its when the going gets tough you need some one like Virat . Hes going to win us more matches down the order . 

the point is where he is best at ? and thats no .3

3 or 4 , virat doesnt bat irresponsibly .

He is someone who bats a good s/r and goes full monty in the end, u put him at 4 and give him less balls he ll score less. He doesnt have that extra gear that likes of abdv has. 

Rohit n rayudu in same category :hysterical:

 

we thought n moved sachin also down and end result we understood its better to have him at top, u give ur best batsman the position he wants. If u have forgotten we did try this in CB 2015 series and then moved kohli back at 3 where he immediately scored a ton. We did that again in 2015 home series against SA, kohli didnt look happy....we moved him back at 3....he scored a ton

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3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

the point is where he is best at ? and thats no .3

3 or 4 , virat doesnt bat irresponsibly .

He is someone who bats a good s/r and goes full monty in the end, u put him at 4 and give him less balls he ll score less. He doesnt have that extra gear that likes of abdv has. 

Rohit n rayudu in same category :hysterical:

 

we thought n moved sachin also down and end result we understood its better to have him at top, u give ur best batsman the position he wants. If u have forgotten we did try this in CB 2015 series and then moved kohli back at 3 where he immediately scored a ton. We did that again in 2015 home series against SA, kohli didnt look happy....we moved him back at 3....he scored a ton

The point is, its not working . Virat may be scoring occasional hundreds but hasnt had the impact for a long time he usually on results . 

 

Rayudu and Rohit are both soft players , swap their spots I can see Rayudu having a much better impact as an opener . 

 

obviously you cant force anyone , Sachin was not comfortable batting anywhere else but opening ..i just hope Virat does this willingly , for the team . 

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7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

The point is, its not working . Virat may be scoring occasional hundreds but hasnt had the impact for a long time he usually on results . 

occasional , in WI he scored 3....if u check his last yr its not occasional..he scoring at a crazy rate 

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Rayudu and Rohit are both soft players , swap their spots I can see Rayudu having a much better impact as an opener . 

Rayudu the guy who struggles against quality pace having an impact as opener

Not only u wanna change kohli but rohit position , 2 of ur best players :hysterical:

 

Simple logic give 120 balls to rayudu , kohli n rohit n see who makes more runs....rayudu wud be last so dont give him more balls anyways he is the weekest against pace n then moving deliveries . His blind slogs will connect in India not in overseas

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

obviously you cant force anyone , Sachin was not comfortable batting anywhere else but opening ..i just hope Virat does this willingly , for the team . 

virat is comfortable at 3 as he said many times, he feels he can control the game better their

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2 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

The way I am reading things, Rayudu won't be a part of world cup squad. Even if he is, surely won't be in playing XI against big teams. The team management fully understand that Rayudu is not a big match player. Remember how Stuart Binny was always in the team before WC2015 but was dropped when the actual tournament started. Ambati Rayudu will face the same fate this time.

 

The way I am reading things, team management is thinking of playing 3 openers followed by Kohli. Rahul/Shaw (mostly Rahul) will bat at 3. Also, Dhawan seems to have lost his form a bit which is the reason to go with 3 openers and to not expose Kohli too early. 

 

Dhawan (to give us brisk start)

Rohit (will aim to play sheet anchor)

Rahul ( extra protection if openers fail)

Kohli (Middle order/finisher)

Dhoni (:cantstop:)

Pant (dasher who will go all guns blazing)

Pandya (same as above)

 

I think the above  will be  the team when the actual event starts.

Where is Rayudhu DK Kedhar. I will say Vijay Shankar is better option too. He hits the ball cleaner then most

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1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

Again its LOIs you are confusing between formats .

weak in the front ? lol look at any team do you see one which has a weak top order ? 

 

I keep giving Pakistanis example cos of their poor batting standards , have a look at their top 3 and play in SC conditions more often like us .

Imam ( Avg of 55 ) , Fakhar ( Avg of 53)  and Babar (Avg of 51 )

Only Babar is decent , the other two are as mediocre as they come . 

 

Some of you havent been watching cricket if you think its tough to replace our top order .  

 

 

 

Pakistan problems are deeper. They have 6 to 7 so called all rounders in the team and their tail starts at 4. 

Think of it as a war. If your frontlines cannot survive the first assault the troops behind have no chance.

Always play sport as a battle startegy. That is the onlything that works.

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I think Sourav is correct. Virat is a batsman , once settled  can play with ease on any surface.Naturally he should play at his customary 3rd position and play the maximum no: of balls.If it is a pucca bowler friendly surface,  then Dravid type of batsmen are needed. And this is exactly where this moron Sastri has been a failure as coach. That is, he has failed to develop one or 2 such technically solid players. Every inns.... same Dhawan-Rohit ...I have always believed that  rotation policy best works with bowlers, then with one day batsmen, then  only lastly with test batsmen. Teams like South Africa of the 90s used this strategy of  horses for courses batsmen in one dayers and reaped the maximum reward.  Current India despite having such large talent pool has failed in this regard. Flat track bullies Rohit/Dhawan have been tried in each and every matches till now.The result has been that when ever there was some juice in the pitch and these 2 got out early, only Kohli with added pressure remained .Now I think Rayudu ,Vijay Shankar and to some extend Dhoni can be relied upon in this regard. But with openers that is not the case.It is a guarantee that if there is some life in the pitch, they both will be back in the pavilion.And unfortunately  Sastri has completely failed to  groom 2 alternate options for such bowling friendly matches.

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53 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

occasional , in WI he scored 3....if u check his last yr its not occasional..he scoring at a crazy rate 

Rayudu the guy who struggles against quality pace having an impact as opener

Not only u wanna change kohli but rohit position , 2 of ur best players :hysterical:

 

Simple logic give 120 balls to rayudu , kohli n rohit n see who makes more runs....rayudu wud be last so dont give him more balls anyways he is the weekest against pace n then moving deliveries . His blind slogs will connect in India not in overseas

virat is comfortable at 3 as he said many times, he feels he can control the game better their

 

and Rohit bats like a tailender against quality swing/spin . No point talking technique here , as all of them are poor .

if we are talking about wc , there are only 2 batsmen I have my hopes on . Dhawan and Virat and my bet is if we lose these two early its a certainty that we will lose the match .  

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44 minutes ago, Khota said:

Pakistan problems are deeper. They have 6 to 7 so called all rounders in the team and their tail starts at 4. 

Think of it as a war. If your frontlines cannot survive the first assault the troops behind have no chance.

Always play sport as a battle startegy. That is the onlything that works.

 

 

Who do you see in the frontline of a war ? the king or your generals ?  with your strategy the war is over in 2 mins lol

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11 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

and Rohit bats like a tailender against quality swing/spin . No point talking technique here , as all of them are poor .

if we are talking about wc , there are only 2 batsmen I have my hopes on . Dhawan and Virat and my bet is if we lose these two early its a certainty that we will lose the match .  

Kohli has two issue. He cant resist temptation of driving through covers when ball is on fifth stump line. He has great technique and that is a beautifull shot too. Problem is, in case ball swings too much, it may take a edge or shot is in air (covers zone) because it didnt hit the bat where he would like to. A quick fix would be to be able to play slightly cross bat, but may be his grip may not be allowing that. Or he can achieve it by not taking front foot too far across

 

Second issue is a ball on leg stump in waist height. He is blindsigheted each time ball hits his bat. So he is actually not seeing the ball at the moment of impact. He can leave it and he must leave it as he is too good of batsman to sacrifice his wicket for a single down square leg or third man

Edited by mishra

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49 minutes ago, Khota said:

Pakistan problems are deeper. They have 6 to 7 so called all rounders in the team and their tail starts at 4. 

 

How is that even relevant here ? you said our top order will become weak if any of these are replaced . I just showed you the pak top order statistically is better than ours , basically thats how easy it is to bat in the top order ..its not where your best batsmen should play , but where you hide your weak links . Less versatile players , who cannot take singles at will or batsmen who choke under pressure or hacks who play mostly aerial shots 

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1 hour ago, mishra said:

Where is Rayudhu DK Kedhar. I will say Vijay Shankar is better option too. He hits the ball cleaner then most

DK should stick to T20s only and aim to play the 2020 T20 world cup. He is not an assured ODI player.

 

I am still not sold on Rayudu. Rayudu is good in situations when we are chasing a modest target (say 230 odd) and if the openers gives us a good start. But if we bat first or chase a steep target, he sucks the momentum with his low strike rate. In modern Odi cricket, there is no place for consolidators. Else we might take Pujara to the world cup who has got better technique.

 

I like Vijay Shankar but too raw to be into a world cup team. His batting is good but team mgmt dont trust his bowling much and his fielding is worrysome. With Pandya we have better option for now.

 

Jadhav, yes he is a key player due to his all round abilities. I would swap him with Pant if later fails. Ideally Pant and Jadhav both should play but we all know why that cant be possible.

 

Edited by Austin 3:!6

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2 hours ago, jusarrived said:

 

and Rohit bats like a tailender against quality swing/spin .

Rohit problem is not against pace, rayudu cant touch high pace

2 hours ago, jusarrived said:

 

No point talking technique here , as all of them are poor .

Rayudu is way low against pace bounce, Rohit dhawan are good n successful 

 

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3 hours ago, Khota said:

Pakistan problems are deeper. They have 6 to 7 so called all rounders in the team and their tail starts at 4. 

their problem is that their batsman aren mediocre and most of them cant win u 300+ games on their own most days. They are like rayudu n rahane ....who are impact less most days . Only quality batsman they have is babar azam who also is not at level of dhawan/kohli/rohit 

6 n 7 are generally utility cricketer. In modern day cricket u either need to be match winner or utility cricketer...those 2 are doing fine problem is specialist batsman.  

 

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4 hours ago, jusarrived said:

 

 

Who do you see in the frontline of a war ? the king or your generals ?  with your strategy the war is over in 2 mins lol

Wrong analogy. You start the war with field artillery 155mm. Then go back to troops with 7.62 mm. 

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4 hours ago, jusarrived said:

How is that even relevant here ? you said our top order will become weak if any of these are replaced . I just showed you the pak top order statistically is better than ours , basically thats how easy it is to bat in the top order ..its not where your best batsmen should play , but where you hide your weak links . Less versatile players , who cannot take singles at will or batsmen who choke under pressure or hacks who play mostly aerial shots 

Because someone brought up Pakistan and I gave my analysis of what is going on.

 

At that level if you have weak links you have already lost it.

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

their problem is that their batsman aren mediocre and most of them cant win u 300+ games on their own most days. They are like rayudu n rahane ....who are impact less most days . Only quality batsman they have is babar azam who also is not at level of dhawan/kohli/rohit 

6 n 7 are generally utility cricketer. In modern day cricket u either need to be match winner or utility cricketer...those 2 are doing fine problem is specialist batsman.  

 

Besides two or three they dont have bats that can be consistently counted upon. India has 5 bats that are top in the world. They have huge holes in their lineup.

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27 minutes ago, Khota said:

Besides two or three they dont have bats that can be consistently counted upon. India has 5 bats that are top in the world. They have huge holes in their lineup.

Actually India also has only 3 rest cant said best in the world . But those 3 are best 

 

Pak batsman problem is not only consisteny but impact to. When i see their current generation it gives me an impression they bat with fear . 

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