Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Harsh Thakor

Who was the better batsmen in tests between Zaheer Abbas and Gundappa Vishwanath?

Who was the better batsmen in tests between Zaheer Abbas and Gundappa Vishwanath?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was the better batsmen in tests between Zaheer Abbas and Gundappa Vishwanath?

    • Zaheer Abbas
    • Gundappa Vishwanath
    • They were equally great


Recommended Posts

Rarely in the history of the game have 2 great batsmen been so close to each other in stature.Zaheer Abbas and Gundappa Vishwanath were the ultimate stylists of their day and age giving the art of batting it's prose or poetry.They were simply the epitome of artistry and elegance reminiscent of a musician or painter.,literally sculpting their innings.Their strokes had the beauty of a lotus blooming.

Zaheer was the marginally more complete , classical and stylish.Vishy was the more creative and talented.Zaheer was better against spin,Vishy better against pace.Zaheer was more effective on the flat tracks,Vishy better on the fast or bad ones.Zaheer had a better penchant for making mammoth scores,Vishy was the better batsmen in a crisis.

Statistically Zaheer had a better batting average of 44.79 ,but Vishwanath was more prolific scoring 6080 runs and much more successful against the premier team of their day,the West Indies,Vishwanath scored 4 centuries at an average above 50 against them while Zaheer scored no century and averaged only 17.In Australia considering the opposition Zaheer fared better averaging over 57 in 1976-77 facing the likes of Lillee,including scoring a century.Vishy averaged over 50 in 1977-78 but against a 2nd string attack,with only Thomson a genuine great.In England Zaheer was definitely a notch ahead scoring 2 double centuries,but again it was Vishy who was better in crisis situations like at Lords in 1979 and at the Oval and Old Trafford in 1982.At home what gave the edge to Zaheer were his scores against India which were Bradmanesque.Pertinent that both Zaheer and Vishy never scored a test hundred in a losing cause.

.The Vishy against West Indies in 1974-75 and 1978-79 would have been more an asset to a side than Zaheer Abbas.However the Zaheer Abbas against England in 1971 and arguably 1974 as well as against India at home in 1978-79 and 1982-83 would have have been a more eligible candidate than Vishy.In Australia it was virtually a draw .

With a gun on my head by less than a a whisker I would choose Gundappa Vishwanath over Zaheer Abbas.My main criteria was Vishy's consistency in a crisis,on bad wickets and against sheer pace.

Edited by Harsh Thakor

Share this post


Link to post

Zaheer was crap compared to Vishwanath. Zaheer is another case of a bat inflating his stats against spinners with biased umpires and dead pitches at home. Absolutely useless against pace. Zaheer is in line with other Pakistani perpetuated myth like their pace attack. And this is coming from someone who likes Pakistani players.

Share this post


Link to post

On an Indian forum, why would you vote for Zaheer if both him and Vishy are equally great :lol: .... People would only vote for Zaheer if he is clearly ahead (and he is not) 
 

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Pace90 said:

Plus he was Pakistani , so no competition. 

Him being Pakistani has no bearing on anything. Scoring double century against Indian spin attack in Pakistan vs scoring a century against Australia on debut is difference of day and night.

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Vilander said:

Zaheer faced Indian bowling 

Vishwanath never got that lucky.

Never forget Zaheer's 2 double centuries in England in 1971 and 1974 as well as his century facing Lillee at Adelaide in 1976-77 .He averaged over 57 on the 1967-77 Australian tour and over 56 on the 1981-82 Australian tour facing the best Australian bowling..Gavaskar,Viv Richards .Chappell brothers or even Tendulkar have not scored 2 double centuries in test in England.Thus Abbas better than Vishy in England and Australia.

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Khota said:

Zaheer was crap compared to Vishwanath. Zaheer is another case of a bat inflating his stats against spinners with biased umpires and dead pitches at home. Absolutely useless against pace. Zaheer is in line with other Pakistani perpetuated myth like their pace attack. And this is coming from someone who likes Pakistani players.

Tow classic double centuries in England which the likes of Viv Richards,Gavaskar and Tendulkar oir Greg Chappell have not done.Averaged over 55 in a series in Australia twice against top pace of Lillee. in 1976-77 and 1981-82..Scored  9 fifties in Australia facing the likes of Dennis Lillee.Scored a classic 91 in WSC game vesrus West Indies in 1978.Not at his best aginst pace but still has a better record than Vishy in England and Australia.

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Equally great.

 

Vishy though would miss out on all time 11 of India but Zaheer makes all time 11 for Pak. That is only because Pakistan did not have too many good batsmen as India did.

 

India:

 

Sunny

Sehwag

Dravid

Sachin

Kohli

VVS 

 

 

 

 

great answer.Vishy against pace,Zaheer against spin.Vishy better on bad wickets,Zaheer better on batting tracks.Vishy the better match-winner or batsmen in a crisis?

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Tow classic double centuries in England which the likes of Viv Richards,Gavaskar and Tendulkar oir Greg Chappell have not done.Averaged over 55 in a series in Australia twice against top pace of Lillee. in 1976-77 and 1981-82..Scored  9 fifties in Australia facing the likes of Dennis Lillee.Scored a classic 91 in WSC game vesrus West Indies in 1978.Not at his best aginst pace but still has a better record than Vishy in England and Australia.

Lillie had lost pace after 1975 due to his back injury.  He was not the express bowler anymore that he used to be before 75.  

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Tow classic double centuries in England which the likes of Viv Richards,Gavaskar and Tendulkar oir Greg Chappell have not done.Averaged over 55 in a series in Australia twice against top pace of Lillee. in 1976-77 and 1981-82..Scored  9 fifties in Australia facing the likes of Dennis Lillee.Scored a classic 91 in WSC game vesrus West Indies in 1978.Not at his best aginst pace but still has a better record than Vishy in England and Australia.

I was not even born when he played those knocks but how can a knock played on a 600 plays 500 pitch be termed a classic? Would understand if he had scored at run a ball, like Sehwag scored his 300 on a flat Chepauk road vs SA.

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Lillie had lost pace after 1975 due to his back injury.  He was not the express bowler anymore that he used to be before 75.  

still a great bowler-an even better one after 1976

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

I was not even born when he played those knocks but how can a knock played on a 600 plays 500 pitch be termed a classic? Would understand if he had scored at run a ball, like Sehwag scored his 300 on a flat Chepauk road vs SA.

Both were technical masterpieces.Edgbaston 274 morally won the match above all for Pakistan.

Share this post


Link to post

As someone who started following cricket from late 80s, a lot of the romanticism and nostalgia about past greats comes due to County cricket and Packer series. So many folklores which do not quite match the numbers many a times. Yes, scorecards alone do not give you the complete picture about knocks but on a longer horizon, they they do give us some idea especially arguments which are made to run down achievements of the 90s and current generation of cricketers.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Tow classic double centuries in England which the likes of Viv Richards,Gavaskar and Tendulkar oir Greg Chappell have not done.Averaged over 55 in a series in Australia twice against top pace of Lillee. in 1976-77 and 1981-82..Scored  9 fifties in Australia facing the likes of Dennis Lillee.Scored a classic 91 in WSC game vesrus West Indies in 1978.Not at his best aginst pace but still has a better record than Vishy in England and Australia.

I can understand England because he played county all the time. I don't know if you have watched him in person but the poor soul was getting beat by every other delivery by Kapil Dev. Could not handle swing at all. Once again his highest totals came against Indian spinners in dead pitches of Pakistan. What I saw of him was not very impressive. I will have to dig the scorecard against Australia to have a proper context but my initial reaction is still the same. Vishy was class and Zaheer was not.

Share this post


Link to post

@Harsh Thakor I think there is lot of confusion in this thread. I have stated before multiple times cricket does not know how to do averages. It is immature and juvenile on part of any expert who comes and states cricket averages. That truly shows their lack of knowledge of game and stats. Till cricket puts context and weightage to opposition bowling these averages in cricket mean nothing. They are just useless. Like I said I have seen him play and he was clueless against Kapil.

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, Khota said:

@Harsh Thakor I think there is lot of confusion in this thread. I have stated before multiple times cricket does not know how to do averages. It is immature and juvenile on part of any expert who comes and states cricket averages. That truly shows their lack of knowledge of game and stats. Till cricket puts context and weightage to opposition bowling these averages in cricket mean nothing. They are just useless. Like I said I have seen him play and he was clueless against Kapil.

SRT was also at times clueless against Anderson.

Share this post


Link to post

Zaheer Abbas was like Ian Bell, GRV was like Laxman....I prefer the latter because I value runs in crisis situations more. Not undermining Abbas but he made plenty of soft runs, also patriotic Pak umpiring helped. For most of his career he was a fair-weather batsman while Vishy was the one who brought his best in rough waters. Teams need both kinds of batsmen but the fair-weather ones are easier to produce, history is replete with their kind. I prefer Abbas in England, Australia (just, razor thin margin) and on flat tracks...Vishy everywhere else. I also prefer Abbas in a hypothetical match scenario where the side is in control and intending to put the dagger deeper into the opponent's chest, not many better than him when it came to pressing an advantageous position. He could run away with the game in a manner very few in the history of cricket could. Vishy was other worldly in salvaging hopeless match situations, either converting sure losses into draws or worse positions to outright wins.

 

Interestingly @Harsh Thakor I think a better comparison among Pakistanis w.r.t Vishy will be the legendary Asif Iqbal. I see more similarities between him and Vishy than the current comparison on which the premise of this thread is based. Both crisis men, both underachievers stats-wise, both artists, both predominantly backfoot players (correct me if I am wrong but haven't seen videos of Iqbal...only based on reading material and hearsay), both more or less forgotten by their own countrymen. I'd say Vishy was an upgraded version of the Hyderabad born Iqbal with the bat (and also no 4 vs no 5/6), ofc the latter even bowled with some success making them comparable overall cricketers. Leaving the fixing controversies aside and judging purely on cricketing merits Asif Iqbal is a colossal figure in the world of cricket especially considering cricket in Asia wasn't that developed in the 60s and 70s. 

Edited by Gollum

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Gollum said:

Zaheer Abbas was like Ian Bell, GRV was like Laxman....I prefer the latter because I value runs in crisis situations more. Not undermining Abbas but he made plenty of soft runs, also patriotic Pak umpiring helped. For most of his career he was a fair-weather batsman while Vishy was the one who brought his best in rough waters. Teams need both kinds of batsmen but the fair-weather ones are easier to produce, history is replete with their kind. I prefer Abbas in England, Australia (just, razor thin margin) and on flat tracks...Vishy everywhere else. I also prefer Abbas in a hypothetical match scenario where the side is in control and intending to put the dagger deeper into the opponent's chest, not many better than him when it came to pressing an advantageous position. He could run away with the game in a manner very few in the history of cricket could. Vishy was other worldly in salvaging hopeless match situations, either converting sure losses into draws or worse positions to outright wins.

 

Interestingly @Harsh Thakor I think a better comparison among Pakistanis w.r.t Vishy will be the legendary Asif Iqbal. I see more similarities between him and Vishy than the current comparison on which the premise of this thread is based. Both crisis men, both underachievers stats-wise, both artists, both predominantly backfoot players (correct me if I am wrong but haven't seen videos of Iqbal...only based on reading material and hearsay), both more or less forgotten by their own countrymen. I'd say Vishy was an upgraded version of the Hyderabad born Iqbal with the bat (and also no 4 vs no 5/6), ofc the latter even bowled with some success making them comparable overall cricketers. Leaving the fixing controversies aside and judging purely on cricketing merits Asif Iqbal is a colossal figure in the world of cricket especially considering cricket in Asia wasn't that developed in the 60s and 70s. 

Great post agree on Asif Iqbal-A maestro on his day.Great in later part of career.

Share this post


Link to post

I felt Asif was another mediocre player. Maybe I am missing something.

 

For me the great players from pakistan are:

Wasim

Sohaib

Waqar

Imran

Inzi

Mo Yo

Younis

Misbah

 

I think they were absolutely the best and Wasim was phenomenonlal. Wasim probabaly has inspired more people to bowl than any other.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Khota said:

I felt Asif was another mediocre player. Maybe I am missing something.

 

For me the great players from pakistan are:

Wasim

Sohaib

Waqar

Imran

Inzi

Mo Yo

Younis

Misbah

 

I think they were absolutely the best and Wasim was phenomenonlal. Wasim probabaly has inspired more people to bowl than any other.

every player from 60s-70s-80s was a maestro.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Khota said:

I felt Asif was another mediocre player. Maybe I am missing something.

 

For me the great players from pakistan are:

Wasim

Sohaib

Waqar

Imran

Inzi

Mo Yo

Younis

Misbah

 

I think they were absolutely the best and Wasim was phenomenonlal. Wasim probabaly has inspired more people to bowl than any other.

what about Shoaib Mohammad?

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Zaheer was weak against pace bowling but he had this enormous appetite for runs.But He was far better batsman than Vishy.This notion that Vishy was super against pace bowling is far fetched.

Yeah that's why Zaheer averaged so much more than Vishy, oh wait? He didn't...average of 44.79 with the help of Pak umpires tells a different story. Far better than Vishy ofc in ODIs but we are talking about tests. He ran away against genuine pace, so much so that Imran Khan denounced his cowardice in his writings. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Yeah that's why Zaheer averaged so much more than Vishy, oh wait? He didn't...average of 44.79 with the help of Pak umpires tells a different story. Far better than Vishy ofc in ODIs but we are talking about tests. He ran away against genuine pace, so much so that Imran Khan denounced his cowardice in his writings. 

You are talking as if Vishwanath was running head on and relished facing pace bowlers. Vishy scored 10 hundreds at home which is more than Zaheer.Vishy was not better test or odi player than Zaheer.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, putrevus said:

You are talking as if Vishwanath was running head on and relished facing pace bowlers. Vishy scored 10 hundreds at home which is more than Zaheer.Vishy was not better test or odi player than Zaheer.

 

OK whatever, not in the mood now. Massive terror attack on our braves in Kashmir, can discuss cricket later. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Yeah that's why Zaheer averaged so much more than Vishy, oh wait? He didn't...average of 44.79 with the help of Pak umpires tells a different story. Far better than Vishy ofc in ODIs but we are talking about tests. He ran away against genuine pace, so much so that Imran Khan denounced his cowardice in his writings. 

Correct. Zaheer was ahead in ODI cricket by some margin and a better player of spin and on slow wickets,Vishy  was the better batsmen in a crisis and on bad wickets as well as genuine pace.See Vishwanaths record against West Indies home and away.Overall Zaheer was better but it was probably a draw in test cricket.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Aiden said:

Theres a reason Zaheer was known as Asian Bradman. 

In Ist class cricket Zaheer was the best batsmen of his era and close to 2nd best to the Don.However International cricket is the criteria.Still at his best Zaheer was good as anybody .The Bradman of slow wickets.

Edited by Harsh Thakor

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, putrevus said:

You are talking as if Vishwanath was running head on and relished facing pace bowlers. Vishy scored 10 hundreds at home which is more than Zaheer.Vishy was not better test or odi player than Zaheer.

 

 

 

Please consider the no of times Vishy scored centuries in a crisis,on difficult wickets and to turn games.Vishy had a much better record against West Indies and in a crisis than Zaheer.

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Gollum said:

Zaheer Abbas was like Ian Bell, GRV was like Laxman....I prefer the latter because I value runs in crisis situations more. Not undermining Abbas but he made plenty of soft runs, also patriotic Pak umpiring helped. For most of his career he was a fair-weather batsman while Vishy was the one who brought his best in rough waters. Teams need both kinds of batsmen but the fair-weather ones are easier to produce, history is replete with their kind. I prefer Abbas in England, Australia (just, razor thin margin) and on flat tracks...Vishy everywhere else. I also prefer Abbas in a hypothetical match scenario where the side is in control and intending to put the dagger deeper into the opponent's chest, not many better than him when it came to pressing an advantageous position. He could run away with the game in a manner very few in the history of cricket could. Vishy was other worldly in salvaging hopeless match situations, either converting sure losses into draws or worse positions to outright wins.

 

Interestingly @Harsh Thakor I think a better comparison among Pakistanis w.r.t Vishy will be the legendary Asif Iqbal. I see more similarities between him and Vishy than the current comparison on which the premise of this thread is based. Both crisis men, both underachievers stats-wise, both artists, both predominantly backfoot players (correct me if I am wrong but haven't seen videos of Iqbal...only based on reading material and hearsay), both more or less forgotten by their own countrymen. I'd say Vishy was an upgraded version of the Hyderabad born Iqbal with the bat (and also no 4 vs no 5/6), ofc the latter even bowled with some success making them comparable overall cricketers. Leaving the fixing controversies aside and judging purely on cricketing merits Asif Iqbal is a colossal figure in the world of cricket especially considering cricket in Asia wasn't that developed in the 60s and 70s. 

Brilliant comparison assessing comparative merits of Zaheer and Vishy most analytically.The fairest verdict was a draw in test cricket.

Edited by Harsh Thakor

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

In Ist class cricket Zaheer was the best batsmen of his era and close to 2nd best to the Don.However International cricket is the criteria.Still at his best Zaheer was good as anybody .The Bradman of slow wickets.

Iiirc Vishy played in only two away series in WI.

 

1971 -  Totally struggled.

1976 -  Did good.

1983 - Did not tour.

 

Vishy struggled in England 1971.

 

He did well against Windies in home conditions.

 

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Please consider the no of times Vishy scored centuries in a crisis,on difficult wickets and to turn games.Vishy had a much better record against West Indies and in a crisis than Zaheer.

Scoring in crisis does not make Vishy a better batsman. Mornic Imran and Pakistanis were saying that nonsense about Inzi and how his 100 resulted in wins than Sachin .How he better match winner than Sachin.

 

Inzi is not even patch on Sachin as batsman.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
×
×
  • Create New...