Was Vishwanath a better batsmen against pace than any other Indian batsmen?

[putrevus]

No one is comfortable against pace over 90 plus.It does not matter what protection you have facing 90 plus  heat from both ends.Greatest series by an Indian batsman against fast bowling would be Amarnath in 1983 against WI.

[Gollum]

Uff finding faults in Vishy, Mohinder and at the end mentioning Srikanth's name...what can I say? Respect Cheeka for his immense contribution but even he would chuckle if he read that post. 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Gollum said:

Irfan Pathan handled P@k!s better in 2006, so Irfan>>>Sachin. What the hell are you smoking man? Enough with the Imran worship...proper fraud if ever there was one. What a stupid example, that Shastri one. I can give 100 similar examples to run down greats and hype up nobodies. Why the need to bring up Pakistan again and again and again....was Imran the only quick of that era? Were the WI and Aus quicks dead when Vishy played them? 

 

Vishy faced scary bowlers like Thommo, Lillee, Holding, Roberts...1 of those 4 was damn quicker than the Pak! and 2 others were almost if not equally quick. Don't believe everything the goat-shaggers tell you.

 

So he was short and had advantage, so what? Granted he wasn't as good a hooker as Mohinder but he could handle the short stuff in his own way. BTW Mohiner averaged 42 as well, so he wasn't an outstanding player against pace?

 

All those who praised Vishy to the moon like Roberts, Bradman, Hadlee, Lillee, Greig were doing it for IPL contract, clearly. 

 

Mohinder had two extremes. He was either extremely good against them or he completely went off the boil. But two of the toughest series in the 80s were 82/83 twin tours of Pakistan/Windies because of the sustained pace attack at their peak. This is why Mohinder's returns in those two series are considered as gold standard 584/598 runs.  Mohinder took so many blows onto his body. Why do you think others failed against Lillee? Sandip patil averaged 60 in Australia against LIlle and pascoe.  Patil laid Bob willis to waste with 6 fours in an over. He dominated pace bowlers even in that era. I don't mind hyping one batsman. But don't run down others in the process.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Uff finding faults in Vishy, Mohinder and at the end mentioning Srikanth's name...what can I say? Respect Cheeka for his immense contribution but even he would chuckle if he read that post. 

Do you really it is easy for someone can have a strike rate close to 100 in tests as an opener in the 80s? Patterson was destroyed in both innings by Srikkanth. The argument "he is the gold standard against pace" is based on your nostalgic perception. There were several great players against pace. Kapil dev could sweep winstaon benjamin's pacy balls for six. Demolished donald and co in SA when India was reeling at 31/6

[vvvslaxman]

Anyway Harsh thakor's threads i don't actively participate as there is an excessive dosage of nostalgia in each of his thread. :)  Things get wildly exaggerated. 

[MechEng]

12 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Anyway Harsh thakor's threads i don't actively participate as there is an excessive dosage of nostalgia in each of his thread. :)  Things get wildly exaggerated. 

He doesn't reply back to posts. Just disappears after putting up a question. 

[Vilander]

it's between Sunny and Amarnath. 

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, Gollum said:

Inzi shouldn't be in the discussion, his attacking game against sheer pace plus bounce was poor. 

a bit confusing for you right..my country their country our country...

 

we are talking Indian batsmen from India. 

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, Vilander said:

a bit confusing for you right..my country their country our country...

 

we are talking Indian batsmen from India. 

I don't understand. Explain. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Gollum

[MechEng]

54 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Irfan Pathan handled P@k!s better in 2006, so Irfan>>>Sachin. What the hell are you smoking man? Enough with the Imran worship...proper fraud if ever there was one. What a stupid example, that Shastri one. I can give 100 similar examples to run down greats and hype up nobodies. Why the need to bring up Pakistan again and again and again....was Imran the only quick of that era? Were the WI and Aus quicks dead when Vishy played them? 

 

Vishy faced scary bowlers like Thommo, Lillee, Holding, Roberts...1 of those 4 was damn well quicker than Akhtar and 2 others were almost if not equally quick. Don't believe everything the goat-shaggers tell you.

 

So he was short and had advantage, so what? Granted he wasn't as good a hooker as Mohinder but he could handle the short stuff in his own way. BTW Mohiner averaged 42 as well, so he wasn't an outstanding player against pace?

 

All those who praised Vishy to the moon like Roberts, Bradman, Hadlee, Lillee, Greig were doing it for IPL contract, clearly. 

Sachin was definitely not the greatest player of pace, he has such a heavy bat that playing cross batted shots becomes difficult, which is why he invented the upper cut. 

 

However, I believe that Laxman was greatest against raw pace. He looked so comfortable against Lee, Gillespie, Bichel and Williams when they were at their quickest. I'm not sure how he's compared with Vishy.

[Gollum]

48 minutes ago, Vilander said:

a bit confusing for you right..my country their country our country...

 

we are talking Indian batsmen from India. 

Don't know what this post adds to the thread. In any case I would very much like you to explain yourself. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Gollum

[zen]

Voted Gavaskar 

 

Vishwanath only had two good years (consecutive years) in his career: 

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1978 and 31 Dec 1979

Ordered by default (ascending)

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
unfiltered	1969-1983	91	155	10	6080	222	41.93	14	35	10	Profile
filtered	1978-1979	9	15	0	831	145	55.40	2	7	1

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
v Australia	1978-1978	2	3	0	241	89	80.33	0	3	0
v England	1979-1979	4	7	0	341	113	48.71	1	3	0
v Pakistan	1978-1978	3	5	0	249	145	49.80	1	1	1

 

• Aus was a weakened team iirc 
• Don't recall Eng's strength 
• Pak had good batting wkts. Recall the video of Kapil's debut

 

 

PS

 

year 1969		4	8	1	334	137	47.71	1	2	1
year 1971		6	11	1	263	68	26.30	0	2	2
year 1972		2	4	0	67	34	16.75	0	0	0
year 1973		3	6	1	298	113	59.60	1	1	1
year 1974		6	12	0	513	139	42.75	1	3	0
year 1975		2	4	1	255	97*	85.00	0	2	0
year 1976		11	20	2	797	112	44.27	2	5	1
year 1977		7	14	1	386	79*	29.69	0	3	0
year 1978		8	11	0	644	145	58.54	1	6	1
year 1979		17	26	2	1388	179	57.83	5	6	0
year 1980		3	5	0	58	16	11.60	0	0	0
year 1981		9	15	0	432	114	28.80	2	0	1
year 1982		9	14	1	536	222	41.23	1	4	2
year 1983		4	5	0	109	53	21.80	0	1	1

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by zen

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

Voted Gavaskar 

 

Vishwanath only had two good years (consecutive years) in his career: 

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1978 and 31 Dec 1979

Ordered by default (ascending)

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
unfiltered	1969-1983	91	155	10	6080	222	41.93	14	35	10	Profile
filtered	1978-1979	9	15	0	831	145	55.40	2	7	1

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
v Australia	1978-1978	2	3	0	241	89	80.33	0	3	0
v England	1979-1979	4	7	0	341	113	48.71	1	3	0
v Pakistan	1978-1978	3	5	0	249	145	49.80	1	1	1

 

• Aus was a weakened team iirc 
• Don't recall Eng's strength 
• Pak had good batting wkts. Recall the video of Kapil's debut

 

 

Vishwanath wasn't consistent and neither was he a run machine, he was more like Laxman...a crisis man who had some valuable understated contributions almost every series not necessarily mammoth scores, and a memorable ATG knock every 2 years or so. Look at his great knocks....there is no pattern. As @Jimmy Cliff said he was an elite match-winner. 

 

And you can't compare him with Sunny or Sachin, those guys had a selfish streak in their batting (like other ATG peers) which is not a bad thing at all...those guys wanted to score many runs and break records. Vishy was not like that, where there was no danger to the team's chances and where he could remain not out he would play an extravagant shot at 30, 40 just for the thrill of it, the concept of staying not out and boosting stats was alien to his philosophy. He had only 10 NOs in 91 tests, Sunny despite being an opener had 16 NOs in 125 tests. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Why can't BCCI compile at least the highlights of the old Indian matches, memorable moments etc and have it in the archive section of their website? So little of Vishy on YT, mainly thanks to robelinda and a couple of others. 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Vishwanath wasn't consistent and neither was he a run machine, he was more like Laxman...a crisis man who had some valuable understated contributions almost every series not necessarily mammoth scores, and a memorable ATG knock every 2 years or so. Look at his great knocks....there is no pattern. As @Jimmy Cliff said he was an elite match-winner. 

 

And you can't compare him with Sunny or Sachin, those guys had a selfish streak in their batting (like other ATG peers) which is not a bad thing at all...those guys wanted to score many runs and break records. Vishy was not like that, where there was no danger to the team's chances and where he could remain not out he would play an extravagant shot at 30, 40 just for the thrill of it, the concept of staying not out and boosting stats was alien to his philosophy. He had only 10 NOs in 91 tests, Sunny despite being an opener had 16 NOs in 125 tests. 

Azhar made is debut in 1984. Isn't Azhar rated higher than Vishy? .... Overseas, he is far behind Gavaskar and Amarnath in the 69-83 period:

 

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Primary team India

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1969 and 1 Jan 1984

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
SM Gavaskar	1971-1983	49	87	7	4222	221	52.77	16	19	5
M Amarnath	1976-1983	28	48	2	2223	120	48.32	6	14	3
GR Viswanath	1971-1983	43	74	3	2578	145	36.30	4	20	7
CPS Chauhan	1977-1981	17	31	1	1008	97	33.60	0	7	4
DB Vengsarkar	1976-1983	37	64	4	1939	157	32.31	2	12	6
N Kapil Dev	1978-1983	27	42	2	1010	100*	25.25	1	6	5
SMH Kirmani	1976-1983	35	54	7	1059	78	22.53	0	5	1

 

 

[Gollum]

'Viswanath the greatest batsman' - Gavaskar

 

Gundappa Viswanath: Sunil Gavaskar’s Favourite Cricketer

 

Lillee rates Vishy higher than Gavaskar

 

Quote

"I have seen situations when we all struggled against the opposition," Gavaskar began. "But then Vishy would score off the good deliveries. The rest if us, we thought we could keep out the good balls and score off the bad ones. But Vishy, he had four-five strokes to the good balls that were bowled to him."

Gavaskar, who has been ribbed about his short stature all his life, made light of the condition. "When people asked me who was the better batsman, Vishy or me, I would say without hesitation - Vishy. But I would also remind them that I was half an inch taller. When we both sat on a sofa, my feet would touch the ground, his would be half an inch above."

Quote

In a cricketing career that coincided with the great Sunil Gavaskar, it was Viswanath’s sheer brilliance with the bat that was able to polarise a fan base in two factions – Team Sunil Gavaskar and Team Gundappa Vishwanath.

Even though he was overshadowed by Sunil Gavaskar almost throughout his entire career, the Little Master has admitted it many a times that Gundappa Viswanath was the only batsman to ever cast a spell on him with his batting skill.

While debate will always continue over who was a better batsman of the two, the biggest compliment for the ‘Little Master’ from Karnataka was when Sunil Gavaskar named his son Rohan Jaiviswa after three of his favourite players. West Indian captain Rohan Kanhai lent him the first half of the name, ML Jaisimha with the middle part and finally Viswanath chipped in with ‘Viswa’.

 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

'Viswanath the greatest batsman' - Gavaskar

 

Gundappa Viswanath: Sunil Gavaskar’s Favourite Cricketer

 

Lillee rates Vishy higher than Gavaskar

 

 

gavaskar obviously cannot say no I was a better batsman. It's for others to say, its common courtesy. 

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

I don't understand. Explain. 

i won't, i am also undecided as of now.

[Gollum]

Just now, Vilander said:

i won't, i am also undecided as of now.

Then stop digressing from the thread topic. 

[Vilander]

Just now, Gollum said:

Then stop digressing from the thread topic. 

thread police have a new constable.