Try Pant as an opener

[zen]

With Ind slotted to go into its last international engagement before the WC19 vs Aus to play 2 T20s and 5 ODIs, it is an opportunity for Ind to take new initiatives to strengthen its case for another WC title 

 

 

One initiative would be to try Pant as the opener. But why Pant?

• Because he has the explosive game to take advantage of the PPs on batting friendly surfaces in Eng where par scores are expected to be 300+ (Eng has an RPO of 6.4 in Eng since 2016. This translates to a score of 320). On batting friendly surfaces, ideally, a team should try to be par RPO + 1 in PP. If par RPO is 6.4, we should be around 75 in the first 10    
• Pant is also expected to be in the WC squad. It appears as if Shaw and Agarwal are not being considered 

 

 

But Rohit-Dhawan is a successful opening partnership, why should India tinker with it? And if it is tinkered, who should make the way for Pant? 

• Rohit-Dhawan is definitely a good pair. However, most of their success as a pair has come in bilaterals where the team gets to play the same opposition over a bunch of games, which helps players to eventually have some great games when they encounter batting friendly surfaces. In WC group games, you would play a different opposition till you meet a team again in the SF 
• If we take ICC and world events into consideration, Dhawan averages 77 with a SR of 98, while Rohit averages 32 with a SR of 76, which is similar to how openers played in 1980s 
• Additionally, Rohit SR is among the lowest till he gets to his 50. If we take his 50+ scores conversation ratio into account, it would translate in to 4-5 50+ scores in the 9 group games. However, if those 50+ scores come in games vs. the subcon teams, many of which are expected to not make it to the SFs, it will not benefit Ind, which could get knocked out by virtue of losing to strong SENA teams 
• Therefore, in ICC events, Dhawan could continue to open to leverage on his past good record in world events. Rohit can be played in the MO 

 

 

But Rohit struggles in the MO

• As a MO batsman, Rohit averages 34, which is not much considering the options we have 
• However, Rohit played in the MO a long time ago. If he is an improved batsman now, he should be able to be successful in MO
• If not, it shows that players of similar talent cash in when opening so it would be hard to blame our MO if it fails
• It should not be about what benefits Rohit, but what benefits the team more 

 

 

While it sounds great that a) Pant can potentially solve our problem of slow starts in PPs on good batting surfaces, b) if he gets going can take the game away from the other team, and c) If he fails, we would still have 9 wkts in hand including that of Rohit and Kohli, is it not too late to make changes for a key event like the WC? 

• As they say Man Plans, God Laughs. It is never late to make positive changes. A team is expected to not only rotate its players in a tourney, but also replace those who get injured. In 2011 WC, Ind did not expose Ashwin till the final few games iirc. In 1992 WC, Imran promoted himself to #3 in the final iirc. Dhoni promoted himself in WC2011 final too. Teams constantly have to evaluate their performance and make changes accordingly both in the tournament and in the games 

 

 

Bonus

• Left handed openers do well in ICC events. Besides Dhawan's average of 77, Ganguly averages 67

 

 

So what are the next steps?

• Give Pant, if he is expected to be in the WC squad, an opportunity to open in LOIs vs Aus 
• Evaluate his performances to see how he can be used as an opener in the WC to counter some of the challenges discussed here and elsewhere 
• Last thing we want to do is not try at all. A bilateral series could serve to pad up the stats of the incumbent opener but may not help Ind in the world event to the extent they would have hoped 

 

 

Over and Out! 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by zen

[zen]

May be try this in the ODIs vs AUS 

 

Pant (someone who can get going quickly to optimize the PP) 

Dhawan 

Rohit / Kohli

Kohli / Rohit .... or Rayudu / Shankar / KL if one of Rohit and Kohli is rested 

Jadhav

Pandya 

Dhoni 

4 bowlers 

[Forever Indian]

Too late to try something drastic at the top. Especially because Pant has not made much runs in 50 overs format in domestics as well as internationals.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Forever Indian

[zen]

FTR, Rohit vs major teams at ICC events 

 

SENA+WI

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 100

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 6 of 6

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Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
S Dhawan	2013-2017	7	7	1	516	137	86.00	509	101.37	3	1	0	59	7
AM Rahane	2015-2015	3	3	0	137	79	45.66	162	84.56	0	1	0	11	3
V Kohli	2013-2017	7	7	1	252	76*	42.00	303	83.16	0	1	0	25	2
MS Dhoni	2013-2017	7	5	1	155	65	38.75	162	95.67	0	1	1	12	3
RA Jadeja	2013-2017	7	5	2	111	47*	37.00	98	113.26	0	0	0	13	3
RG Sharma	2013-2017	7	7	0	179	65	25.57	243	73.66	0	2	1	19	4

 

If you throw Pak in to the mix (6 major teams)

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 100

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 7 of 7

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
S Dhawan	2013-2017	11	11	1	726	137	72.60	713	101.82	3	3	0	81	9
V Kohli	2013-2017	11	11	3	467	107	58.37	533	87.61	1	2	0	42	5
AM Rahane	2015-2015	4	4	0	137	79	34.25	163	84.04	0	1	1	11	3
MS Dhoni	2013-2017	11	7	1	177	65	29.50	191	92.67	0	1	1	13	4
RG Sharma	2013-2017	11	11	0	303	91	27.54	417	72.66	0	3	2	30	6

 

 



[flamy]

4 hours ago, zen said:

It appears as if Shaw and Agarwal are not being considered 

 

No way!

[ShoonyaSifar]

Pro tip - open one thread titled ‘Throw out Rohit Sharma’. Will save you the effort of writing same thing in 10 different threads.

 

BTW nice try to include WI there but not SL/BD. I am guessing adding those two (consistently ranked higher than WI and direct qualification to WC) would have messed up your ‘analysis’

[Nikola]

10 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Pro tip - open one thread titled ‘Throw out Rohit Sharma’. Will save you the effort of writing same thing in 10 different threads.

 

BTW nice try to include WI there but not SL/BD. I am guessing adding those two (consistently ranked higher than WI and direct qualification to WC) would have messed up your ‘analysis’

Yeah instead of making all these threads he can make one thread where he can discuss how all pant, jadeja, shami, bumrah are better clutch players than him. Btw he is rohit fan so i doubt he will do that.

[wanted_desi]

They didn't even give back up opener - Rahul enough chances. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Pro tip - open one thread titled ‘Throw out Rohit Sharma’. Will save you the effort of writing same thing in 10 different threads.

 

BTW nice try to include WI there but not SL/BD. I am guessing adding those two (consistently ranked higher than WI and direct qualification to WC) would have messed up your ‘analysis’

a. Who said Rohit should be thrown out

b. May be it is too complicated for you to understand even if the answer is available on this thread ... but feel free to imagine everything a conspiracy, if it is what Rohit fanboys do

Edited February 20, 2019 by zen

[Cricketics]

I like Dhawan/Rohit combo but if trump is looking can be tried in Aus series for few gsmes, no harm in having a third opener ready as a back up. Though my first preference would still be Dhawan/Rohit as they have done enough to earn their spot dor world cup, but its always good to habe backup options.

 

 

Regardless of opening or not, Pant must feature in the ODI line up. One thing I do like though when he comes down late is that he can attack the spinners, something which he might not have luxury of every game when looking to give starts. 

 

Our batting order looks so fragile at times that we can have Pant anywhere at this time. He should be playing somewhere at least in top 6.

 

 

[zen]

Theoretically, if Rohit is moved to 4, he should try to play like Crowe and DeSilva did in 92 and 96 respectively .... of course his batting would need to adjust for the era

[zen]

Roy’s innings today vs WI is an example of what I expect the explosive opener (Pant) to do .... Playing like that also makes it easier for others in the team 

[vvvslaxman]

Trying new pair is too risky now. This could result in run out. or one batsman can stuck and other can throw his wicket away.  We can't predict the chemistry between the new batsmen. Let us not disturb it. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Trying new pair is too risky now. This could result in run out. or one batsman can stuck and other can throw his wicket away.  We can't predict the chemistry between the new batsmen. Let us not disturb it. 

In that case, playing anyone new will create chaos .... we can't ask Dhoni to retire then (Pant is expected to take over the gloves sooner or later) 

[Nikola]

Too less time for pant to settle as opener. He don't have many shots for opener as of now. If you want to make him opener then he should get matches directly after worldcup is over and aim him to be our gilly in 2020 t20 worldcup. Pant has got success in test cricket & few times in LOI cricket but i am still not very impressed with his batting. He bats only in one mode and then good opposition can pick you. The more he bats the better he will get for sure. If he can become our gilly till 2023 worldcup then it will be deadly team to beat specially in indian conditions.

[flamy]

39 minutes ago, zen said:

In that case, playing anyone new will create chaos .... we can't ask Dhoni to retire then (Pant is expected to take over the gloves sooner or later) 

Only in the context of the WC. Of course, new players and new batting orders will be tried after the WC. You want Shaw, Gill, Agarwal, Pant opening, all in this WC.

[zen]

16 minutes ago, flamy said:

Only in the context of the WC. Of course, new players and new batting orders will be tried after the WC. You want Shaw, Gill, Agarwal, Pant opening, all in this WC.

Pant, who is expected to be in the squad, to open. As mentioned in OP, the idea is to optimize PPs in the WC

 

In T20s, I am expecting Shaw-Pant to be our openers sooner or later. Pant was moved to #3 in a few T20s vs NZ and did well. So would not be surprised if the team decides to leverages on his hitting abilities in this WC (esp. if other teams score big runs vs us. There will not be too many options but fit someone like Pant in the top order) .... It is better to have our explosive players take risk and try to decrease RRR from say 6.5 early on in PP with just 2 fielders out than come in with 8 RRR with 30 overs to go and a few wkts down (putting MO in such a situation is unfair too) 

Edited February 21, 2019 by zen

[flamy]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

In lieu of Shaw / Agarwal (regular openers), Pant, who is expected to be in the squad, to open 

 

As mentioned in OP, the idea is to optimize PPs 

 

In T20s, I am expecting Shaw-Pant to be our openers sooner or later. Pant was moved to #3 in  a few T20s vs NZ and did well. So would not be surprised if the team eventually leverages on his hitting abilities in this WC (esp. if other teams start to score big runs vs us. There will not be too many options). It is better to have our explosive players try to decrease RR from 6.5, than come in with 8 RRR with 30 overs to go and a few wkts down 

They could try Rahul and Pant opening in T20s to give this a little go before trying in ODIs.

But, issue is breaking up the Rohit-Dhawan opening.

Rohit can't fit anywhere else.

[zen]

3 minutes ago, flamy said:

They could try Rahul and Pant opening in T20s to give this a little go before trying in ODIs.

But, issue is breaking up the Rohit-Dhawan opening.

Rohit can't fit anywhere else.

I understand that breaking Rohit-Dhawan is tough but iirc we broke Sachin-Ganguly too to bring in Sehwag. Now the par scores are even higher. This has to be evaluated objectively by the TM, who should not care from where runs come from but how and how fast 

 

If I were TM, I would frame this as creating a new role for Rohit (mentioned Crowe and DeSilva here). Depending upon the opposition and since it is a long tourney, Rohit and Dhawan can be rotated too 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, zen said:

In that case, playing anyone new will create chaos .... we can't ask Dhoni to retire then (Pant is expected to take over the gloves sooner or later) 

Difference is these two are successful especially in England as openers. Middle order is woeful. So nothing to lose there.