Apart from ISRO and maybe Nuclear programe what have Indian scientists done?

[maniac]

I know it’s a war like atmosphere right now and I am not talking about nuclear weapons etc.

 

I know our space program is top notch.

 

However we are supposed to be an agrarian society. However how many advanced farming methods do we have? Apart from Punjab and maybe coastal Andhra 2 very fertile farming regions, I still see bail gaadi types in most rural India.

 

why haven’t government science and research helped farming?

 

Dod we have any breakthroughs in weapons and warfare?

 

Are all our brilliant minds just relegated to Java and Other It programming for Conglomerates?

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by maniac

[maniac]

Clicked submit accidentally without the full post.

 

Anyways point being instead of giving loan waiver to these farmers why haven’t we given them better equipment or trained them in advanced methods?

 

We keep buying foreign weapons, where is our homegrown weapons manufacturing like Lockheed Martin etc?

[R!TTER]

Just now, maniac said:

 

Are all our brilliant minds just relegated to Java and Other It programming for Conglomerates?

You know the answer to that, most of our "brilliant" minds are relegated to "ratta" whose first/only aim is to pass exams. There's also a huge dearth of enterprising teachers who encourage students to go outside their academic life & do something different, brilliant. Lastly greed, I know I shouldn't generalize but too many of us are happy earning a lakh or whatever a month, so then why would they need to invent or discover anything? We just have to accept that too many Indians are an easygoing, lazy bunch of self satisfied people, who prefer cricket over lives of fellow Indians!

[Trichromatic]

16 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You know the answer to that, most of our "brilliant" minds are relegated to "ratta" whose first/only aim is to pass exams. There's also a huge dearth of enterprising teachers who encourage students to go outside their academic life & do something different, brilliant. Lastly greed, I know I shouldn't generalize but too many of us are happy earning a lakh or whatever a month, so then why would they need to invent or discover anything? We just have to accept that too many Indians are an easygoing, lazy bunch of self satisfied people, who prefer cricket over lives of fellow Indians!

Option is to choose between earning lakhs or to invent. Why not both? 

[R!TTER]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

Option is to choose between earning lakhs or to invent. Why not both? 

Because very few people choose that option, even if they can. More people do MBA than PhD & that's not just because the latter is hard. MBA pays big bucks quickly while science, R&D is a long & sometimes unfruitful grind. At the end of it you aren't even guaranteed a degree, to succeed in this field you don't need just a brilliant mind but a huge heart for hardships & failures as well.

[velu]

our socialist model screwed us bigtime ..

private vs government companies ..

 

usa has got lots of air defense companies like boeing , lockheed martin , norterp grumman , bae etc ..

we got only HAL

 

[Clarke]

The problem with Agri isn't tech or science, it's economics. Small farmers having small pieces of land relying on the vagaries of nature & market forces. Poor produce means miniscule product to sell while bumper produce leads to lower prices, either scenario leading to losses.

 

Defense has been strangled by public sector. When it opens up fully with leading MNCs producing in India, it is a matter of time that R&D will also happen here. Case in point the automobile industry, contrast the 70s vs now, it has been a success story & we're exporting 2, 3 & 4 wheelers made by Indian & foreign brands, some of which have been designed in India.

[surajmal]

9 hours ago, Clarke said:

The problem with Agri isn't tech or science, it's economics. Small farmers having small pieces of land relying on the vagaries of nature & market forces. Poor produce means miniscule product to sell while bumper produce leads to lower prices, either scenario leading to losses.

 

Defense has been strangled by public sector. When it opens up fully with leading MNCs producing in India, it is a matter of time that R&D will also happen here. Case in point the automobile industry, contrast the 70s vs now, it has been a success story & we're exporting 2, 3 & 4 wheelers made by Indian & foreign brands, some of which have been designed in India.

Defense industry has one customer. Free market mumbo jumbo doesn't apply here. If Indian armed forces continue to spurn domestic R&D and chase foreign toys and hangar queens, this sad state will continue. 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, maniac said:

why haven’t government science and research helped farming?

i remember ITC ( private player) helping farmers with some scientific advisory related to crops, fertilizers and monsoon etc. I know Indian government has programs in the agriculture department, they research draught resistant crops - if i am not wrong they get a grant from UGC.

[Vilander]

14 hours ago, maniac said:

We keep buying foreign weapons, where is our homegrown weapons manufacturing like Lockheed Martin etc?

there is lot of lobbying and sabotage in defence industry. indigenous products are maligned in carefully planned probaganda, and HAL is also very lazy and 'saar naan screwdrivergiri madthni' organization.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Vilander

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

there is lot of lobbying and sabotage in defence industry. indigenous products are maligned in carefully planned probaganda, and HAL is also very lady and 'saar naan screwdrivergiri madthni' organization.

Surpring to see red tape and bureaucracy  in selective sectors that holds back progress.

 

I am sure ISRO had it it’s share as well but still they can be considered a success story. I don’t want to get into how they have not reached full potential etc. they have something to show for their work.

 

Nuclear program has been a success even though probably suffered due to government negligence for many years.

 

So my question was how come this resilience has not translated to other sectors? Sure we have the man power and brain power.

 

I picked agriculture as an example and I agree with @Clarke that it is more to do with economics than science. However my question was we do import a lot of produce from what I hear.

 

My question was Given that we keep harping about  how we are an agrarian society, jai jawan jai kisan and 80% of India lives in villages etc and all other such bs how come no scientific and technological breakthroughs in these areas specifically. How come no efforts have been made to modernize agriculture?

 

We don’t have a problem of weather and fertile land. We have it in abundance.

 

Also water and electricity. How come we still get water tankers in metros like Mumbai and Chennai when desalination plants could have been set up near the sea where water is in abundance?

 

I mean are all the scientists going for lucrative jobs abroad or is there not enough funding given

by the government?

[Clarke]

58 minutes ago, surajmal said:

Defense industry has one customer. Free market mumbo jumbo doesn't apply here. If Indian armed forces continue to spurn domestic R&D and chase foreign toys and hangar queens, this sad state will continue. 

 

 

 

Kinda agree, private sector participation is a necessary & not sufficient condition.

[Clarke]

@maniac ur mixing a lot of things up. 

 

there is information available on how ISRO was maintained as an autonomous organisation, which is completely the opposite with the fat cat defense ministry. 

 

Research does happen in all major sectors, it's not the level of Nobel prize to garner attention. How do you think we got to being the biggest milk producer in the world ? 

 

Food produce rots outside govt godowns all the time. If u read the news, there are farmers every now & then throwing away tomato, potato, milk etc for poor prices. Supply chain & storage isn't something a scientist will address.

 

Urban problems are primarily lack of planning & infra. Desalination is expensive & not a scientific problem. Water management doesn't require as much deep scientific research as administrative efficiency. Same goes with power generation & distribution.

 

In general we have our problems; bureaucracy, limited funding, brain drain etc that affect research output. Having said that, the problems you mention aren't waiting a scientific breakthrough. The solutions are available around the world.

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Clarke

[gattaca]

Thought leadership from political parties, strategy is completely missing. India has big problem of reservations too especially in government sector. I knew a scientist who worked at DRDO who quit and joined private industry because of how promotions are handled and reservations. Indian private and government defense industry both are playing catch up. The government sector does need a shake and needs to run like a company than government office. 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

So my question was how come this resilience has not translated to other sectors? Sure we have the man power and brain power

in defence its primarily fighter engine that's the dud. Crystal blade, metallurgy etc key tech, tech denial from US/Russia etc, we lack there. Hope kaveri succeeds with help from fernch. Everything else par for the course. Tejas has built an ecosystem - see from incpetion in 1980 the project moved from definition phase, got funding in 1990's and flew prototype in 2000 etc. now they have atleast 3 variants , 2 weapons tested  one leading way to Mk2 , so Tejas as a first 4th gen project and ecosystem builder is a success.  Now its at a cusp of needing more professionalism by private partnership. 

 

ISRO is a huge success story considering the budget and heavy sabotage. Indian ballistic missile program is a success too considering all the tech denial and sabotage through the years. Nuke program is success too, they have civilian nuclear program focused on step by step movement to thorium-based reactrors which is carefully planned and in progress. I would call shipbuilding and submarine building programs as healthy too.

 

 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

57 minutes ago, Clarke said:

Food produce rots outside govt godowns all the time. If u read the news, there are farmers every now & then throwing away tomato, potato, milk etc for poor prices. Supply chain & storage isn't something a scientist will address.

 

Urban problems are primarily lack of planning & infra. Desalination is expensive & not a scientific problem. Water management doesn't require as much deep scientific research as administrative efficiency. Same goes with power generation & distribution

good post. this is an administrative failure. 

[Mariyam]

15 hours ago, maniac said:

Clicked submit accidentally without the full post.

 

Anyways point being instead of giving loan waiver to these farmers why haven’t we given them better equipment or trained them in advanced methods?

 

We keep buying foreign weapons, where is our homegrown weapons manufacturing like Lockheed Martin etc?

I'm not a fan of science/scientists, but I find your 'attack' on Indian scientists very scathing and uncalled for. It isn't the work of the scientist to manufacture weapons. That is the work of the industry. And we do not have that kind of an industry and neither can we develop it overnight. Even when our scientists come up with designs for different weapons, our industry may not be able to manufacture them on a large scale.

 

I am guessing Indian scientists do better in theoretical research where a huge investments aren't necessary.

[Tibarn]

Indian scientists are working on a big breakthrough in the agricultural technology field. It has some potentially positive implications for climate change, but it will take some time before it comes to fruition methinks.   

 

IIRC, much of what we consider achievements, such as "Green Revolution" and "White Revolution" were not Indian inventions.  Green Revolution was a UN program. White Revolution was importing of technology from the West and applying it to India.

 

Technology development in military will be more on the Engineering side of things, not so much pure Science. I agree with the poster that said we need to open up defense manufacturing to private players more!