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Really humbling day for Pant


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1 minute ago, Gollum said:

ODI batsmen:

Sachin debut 1989, beast mode from mid 90s

Ganguly debut 1992, beast mode 1997 Toronto, then Independence Cup final

Dravid debut 1996, beast mode 1998-99 NZ, 1999 WC

Yuvraj debut 2000, few sparkling contributions in the start but consistent gun from 2005-06, starting from that fighting back to the wall 100 against RSA at home

Raina debut 2005, beast mode from circa 2010-11

Dhoni debut 2004, few good knocks upfront but beast mode activated in 2006-07 starting from Pak tour

Kohli debut 2008, beast mode 2012 Hobart

Rohit Sharma debut 2007, beast mode 2013 WI tri-series followed by Oz home series

Dhawan debut 2010, beast mode 2013 CT

 

As you can see most of our quality batsmen took 2-6 years to develop from 'talent' to 'high performer' status. Now how can we expect Pant, Rahul, Gill, Shankar etc to achieve their peak form in their 4th or 5th match? Is it fair on them? When present superstar batsmen like Kohli and Sharma took 3-5 years to justify the investment why so harsh on these rookies. Also tells how bad the planning has been since 2015 WC? We actually went backwards by selecting oldies like UV, Raina, Dhoni, DK, Rayudu in place of young blood. That must be a first. 

Good post. Too much expectations from rookies. 

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2 minutes ago, kirkutfan said:

He needs games. Has been on the bench for too long. Also, Dhoni had an incredible run despite many blah games. As it is, I think we missed a big opportunity by not playing Pant in Odis from a year ago, with someone like Saha coaching him on the sidelines. So, it looks like he won’t get much playing time in the World Cup. But post World Cup, Pant should play in all 3 formats.

Yes, it doesn't help a WK batsman when start playing matches as a batsman. Karthik lost touch with his keeping once he started playing as specialist batsman.

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View overall figures
Primary team India
Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Apr 2015
Totals in terms of batting team
Ordered by matches played (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 47 of 47  
Overall figures
Player Teams Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS
MS Dhoni 1 2015-2019 79 52 24 2 1 2.166 45.28 5.73 79 392 112
RG Sharma 1 2015-2019 70 45 24 1 0 1.875 44.04 5.74 70 392 92
V Kohli 1 2015-2019 68 42 24 1 1 1.750 45.26 5.83 68 381 158
S Dhawan 1 2015-2019 66 42 22 1 1 1.909 45.32 5.80 66 392 92
B Kumar 1 2015-2019 59 40 18 0 1 2.222 44.17 5.69 59 392 92
KM Jadhav 1 2015-2019 57 44 11 1 1 4.000 46.33 5.63 57 381 92
JJ Bumrah 1 2016-2019 48 38 10 0 0 3.800 49.76 5.87 48 392 112
HH Pandya 1 2016-2019 45 31 13 0 1 2.384 45.36 5.78 45 392 92
Kuldeep Yadav 1 2017-2019 43 29 11 2 1 2.636 43.54 5.59 43 377 92
YS Chahal 1 2016-2019 41 31 9 1 0 3.444 47.37 5.62 41 392 92
AM Rahane 1 2015-2018 36 21 14 0 1 1.500 41.40 5.61 36 323 178
RA Jadeja 1 2015-2019 31 17 12 2 0 1.416 45.39 5.86 31 381 158
AT Rayudu 1 2015-2019 28 21 5 2 0 4.200 42.93 5.48 28 377 92
UT Yadav 1 2015-2018 27 13 12 1 1 1.083 45.67 5.88 27 356 178
AR Patel 1 2015-2017 25 19 6 0 0 3.166 43.42 5.56 25 375 200
MK Pandey 1 2015-2018 23 16 6 1 0 2.666 47.20 5.69 23 392 112
KD Karthik 1 2017-2019 20 13 6 1 0 2.166 41.34 5.30 20 392 92
R Ashwin 1 2015-2017 15 7 7 0 1 1.000 44.93 6.01 15 381 158
Mohammed Shami 1 2017-2019 15 10 4 1 0 2.500 44.58 5.54 15 326 178
KL Rahul 1 2016-2019 14 10 3 1 0 3.333 49.86 6.09 14 381 236
SK Raina 1 2015-2018 11 4 7 0 0 0.571 32.86 5.46 11 317 200
Yuvraj Singh 1 2017-2017 11 7 3 0 1 2.333 54.80 6.29 11 381 158
A Mishra 1 2015-2016 9 4 5 0 0 0.800 35.96 5.53 9 299 224
KK Ahmed 1 2018-2019 8 4 3 1 0 1.333 35.75 5.75 8 377 92
DS Kulkarni 1 2015-2016 8 6 2 0 0 3.000 39.81 5.11 8 317 200
V Shankar 1 2019-2019 8 6 2 0 0 3.000 40.28 5.52 8 358 250
Harbhajan Singh 1 2015-2015 7 5 2 0 0 2.500 35.07 5.42 7 299 224
SS Iyer 1 2017-2018 6 4 2 0 0 2.000 46.62 5.90 6 392 112
MM Sharma 1 2015-2015 6 3 3 0 0 1.000 31.79 5.41 6 299 224
BB Sran 1 2016-2016 6 3 3 0 0 1.000 67.00 5.55 6 309 -
STR Binny 1 2015-2015 5 4 1 0 0 4.000 44.28 5.66 5 317 -
SN Thakur 1 2017-2018 5 4 1 0 0 4.000 52.34 5.95 5 375 -
RR Pant 1 2018-2019 4 1 2 1 0 0.500 46.11 6.55 4 358 240
I Sharma 1 2016-2016 4 1 3 0 0 0.333 44.89 6.31 4 331 323
R Dhawan 1 2016-2016 3 1 2 0 0 0.500 47.45 6.36 3 331 323
Gurkeerat Singh 1 2016-2016 3 1 2 0 0 0.500 47.45 6.36 3 331 323
S Kaul 1 2018-2018 3 1 1 1 0 1.000 34.40 5.40 3 269 236
MK Tiwary 1 2015-2015 3 3 0 0 0 - 42.21 5.34 3 276 -
RV Uthappa 1 2015-2015 3 3 0 0 0 - 42.21 5.34 3 276 -
M Vijay 1 2015-2015 3 3 0 0 0 - 42.21 5.34 3 276 -
KK Nair 1 2016-2016 2 2 0 0 0 - 100.66 4.35 2 173 -
Shubman Gill 1 2019-2019 2 1 1 0 0 1.000 17.20 4.26 2 252 92
DL Chahar 1 2018-2018 1 0 0 1 0 0.000 25.20 5.05 1 252 252
FY Fazal 1 2016-2016 1 1 0 0 0 - - 5.77 1 126 -
Mohammed Siraj 1 2019-2019 1 1 0 0 0 - 74.75 6.06 1 299 -
Washington Sundar 1 2017-2017 1 1 0 0 0 - 98.00 7.84 1 392 -
J Yadav 1 2016-2016 1 1 0 0 0 - 44.83 5.38 1 269

-

 

 

 

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Matches played since 2015 WC. Was it fair for the top 5 in the list to play so many matches? Our top 3 and Dhoni have done lots of stats boosting but blocked 4 crucial spots where we could have tested others. Bhuvi didn't even deserve so many matches :facepalm:

 

36 matches for Rahane, 31 Jadeja, 28 Rayudu, 27 Umesh, 25 Axar, 23 Pandey, 20 DK

 

Potential prospects who were ignored or undercooked:

Shami 15

Rahul 14

Shankar 8

Iyer 6

Pant 4

Gill 2

Sundar 1

Siraj 1

 

Many haven't even been given debut, like Shaw, Saini, Gowtham, Ishan Kishan, Mayank, Krunal etc.

Edited by Gollum
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22 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Potential prospects who were ignored or undercooked:

Shami 15

Rahul 14

Shankar 8

Iyer 6

Pant 4

Gill 2

Sundar 1

Siraj 1

 

Many haven't even been given debut, like Shaw, Saini, Gowtham, Ishan Kishan, Mayank etc.

 

its not TMs fault when they backed rahane and pandey ..

both were suppose to be our regulars who failed miserably ( i still feel rahane can do better than rayudu at #4 in england ) ..

 

compelte waste of our effort .. rayudu ,  dk , axar etc

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10 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Really pathetic from the crowd and too much expectations from a rookie who isn't even made to keep regularly at internationals to accommodate a certain leech.

Jesus, if you can't even deal with people chanting "Dhoni" at Pant for something he was directly responsible for, you might as well cover him in bubble wrap and have him play with 10-year-olds in the backyard where they won't make fun of him.

 

This in international cricket. He has to deal with it and let his performances do the talking.

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22 minutes ago, velu said:

 

its not TMs fault when they backed rahane and pandey ..

both were suppose to be our regulars who failed miserably ( i still feel rahane can do better than rayudu at #4 in england ) ..

 

compelte waste of our effort .. rayudu ,  dk , axar etc

This is the major problem if you still think he is good to be in team. People talk abt his batting in swinging conditions, remind me any odi inning in any condition which suggests he can play as per modern odi demands. At this age and time his sr is 75 like rahul dravid. Not just him these incompetent selectors have backed most of the wrong players for middle orders and most of mediocre bowlers as bench strength bowler. Tell ne how unadkat, Kaul, Chahr and Thakur are ahead of Ankit, Saini , Aniket and Mavi. Also how rahane, Rayadu and Karthik are better prospect compare to agrwal, saw,Gill,pant,Rahul in loi.

Edited by bahubali
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8 hours ago, Gollum said:

ODI batsmen:

- Sachin debut 1989, beast mode from mid 90s

- Ganguly debut 1992, beast mode 1997 Toronto, then Independence Cup final

- Dravid debut 1996, beast mode 1998-99 NZ, 1999 WC

- Yuvraj debut 2000, few sparkling contributions in the start but consistent gun from 2005-06, starting from that fighting back to the wall 100 against RSA at home

- Raina debut 2005, beast mode from circa 2010-11

- Dhoni debut 2004, few good knocks upfront but beast mode activated in 2006-07 starting from Pak tour

- Kohli debut 2008, beast mode 2012 Hobart

- Rohit Sharma debut 2007, beast mode 2013 WI tri-series followed by Oz home series

- Dhawan debut 2010, beast mode 2013 CT

 

As you can see most of our quality batsmen took 2-6 years to develop from 'talent' to 'high performer' status. Now how can we expect Pant, Rahul, Gill, Shankar etc to achieve their peak form in their 4th or 5th match? Is it fair on them? When present superstar batsmen like Kohli and Sharma took 3-5 years to justify the investment why so harsh on these rookies? 

 

Also tells how bad the planning has been since 2015 WC. We actually went backwards by selecting oldies like UV, Raina, Dhoni, DK, Rayudu in place of young blood. That must be a first. 

You didn't really understand the gist of the thread before going on with this post. It is not my contention that he becomes Kohli or a finished article but an insane talent has to justify the tag sooner or later. It's been always the case of now he ll deliver , today he might click but he always flatter to deceive.

@rkt.india talking about LOI not tests here. And expectations are high from him, if needs to find a place in the side he has to deliver more. This batting lineup not like of previous era here if plays he will be playing at pivotal number

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Fitting Pant in the XI is going to be challenging. For one thing not a good fielder.  Still learning his keeping. Still evolving as a batsman. I very much doubt he will purely qualify as a batsman at this point. They should have groomed Shubhman Gill.  I have no idea how Rayudu became a default no.4 choice for this lineup. At this point he is a future replacement for Dhoni.

Edited by vvvslaxman
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And before others get their knickers in a twist and link everything to Dhoni, this is not about Dhoni at all.  I am just stating Pant till now has not shown he is the answer to any of Ind middle order problem. I am not even convinced as of now if he can be a middle order option or he needs more time upfront and needs power play to make impact.

 

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