Stop putting Armed Forces on a pedestal.

[surajmal]

https://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column-generals-in-a-labyrinth-2597010

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The latest example of this came last week, when the Vice Chief of Army Staff (VCAS) told a Parliamentary committee that government underfunding is mortally wounding the modernisation plans of the Army. In cue, the media erupted in a volley of laments, led by ex-servicemen, on how politicians don’t “get it”, and India’s military needs much higher levels of funding to meet the multiple security threats confronting the country.

Unfortunately, as is generally the case, no one (either in the Parliamentary committee or in the media) asked the VCAS the elementary question: What does the Army do with the 5th largest defence budget in the world, if its shortfalls are indeed so apocalyptic in nature. To put things in perspective, India ranks a lowly 126th in the world in per-capita income. In other words, a barely lower-middle income country, a democracy at that, is incurring first world levels of expenditure on defence.

 

 

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One, the manpower pattern of the Indian Army. Over the last decade, when every single modern army, including China, embarked on massive downsizing of standing armies in favour of more technology-oriented forces, Indian Army beefed up on divisions. As we speak, even more divisions are being raised to staff the newly-formed Mountain Strike Corps. To top it up, the military, aided by an amazingly sophisticated PR campaign run by ex-servicemen, has gotten itself the OROP (One Rank One Pension). Predictably, pension bill has shot up, and now that alone exceeds the capital expenditure budget of the military. Naturally, resources being finite, the hit has been taken by modernisation heads of the defence budget.

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The politicians and bureaucrats need to step up and perform radical surgery, to rescue this situation. National security is too important a business to be left to generals, it would seem!

 

Short article but agree with everything. Dont mistake the jawans for the decision makers.

Edited March 23, 2019 by surajmal

[FischerTal]

Most of the defence budget goes into pensions. Problem is that the army needs to downsize and transform into a technology-based army rather than rely on too much manpower. 

 

Edit: lol, I just saw the quote from OP that tells you what I said. Apologies

Edited March 23, 2019 by FischerTal

[FischerTal]

One thing I don’t agree with the author on is the implicit statement that tejas is somehow equal to rafale. That’s BS

[surajmal]

7 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

Most of the defence budget goes into pensions. Problem is that the army needs to downsize and transform into a technology-based army rather than rely on too much manpower. 

Most army officers used to be gungadeens (many still are). I have seen it upfront. Retired faujis, wearing ascots, carrying a swagger stick while walking their german shepherds in the morning. You cannot expect such people to solve real problems. They are useless. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by surajmal

[surajmal]

Just now, FischerTal said:

One thing I don’t agree with the author on is the implicit statement that tejas is somehow equal to rafale. That’s BS

Thats just highlighting the stupidity of decision makers. But it does raise the question of a what if? what if LCA program had 8 billion USD in its kitty as opposed to few hundred million?

[FischerTal]

1 minute ago, surajmal said:

Most army officers used to be gungadeens (many still are). I have seen in upfront. Retired faujis, wearing ascots, carrying a stagger stick while walking their german shepherds in the morning. You cannot expect such people to solve real problems. They are useless. 

Most senior army officers are just relics of the British empire in the way they conduct themselves. There is a stark difference between the inherent ideologies of jawans and officers(not all) when it comes to the concept of nationalism. This is part of the reason that we have a reactionary policy when it comes to Pakistan. Most generals don’t want to go up the escalation ladder. I gave up hope after they stood by and did nothing after 26/11. 

[FischerTal]

2 minutes ago, surajmal said:

Thats just highlighting the stupidity of decision makers. But it does raise the question of a what if? what if LCA program had 8 billion USD in its kitty as opposed to few hundred million?

We don’t even have a functioning kaveri engine despite millions of rupees invested in the program. Only when somebody like parrikar comes along will these people get serious about their job. Without Parrikar, LCA Tejas would have met same fate as Arjun. 

[surajmal]

1 minute ago, FischerTal said:

Most senior army officers are just relics of the British empire in the way they conduct themselves. There is a stark difference between the inherent ideologies of jawans and officers(not all) when it comes to the concept of nationalism. This is part of the reason that we have a reactionary policy when it comes to Pakistan. Most generals don’t want to go up the escalation ladder. I gave up hope after they stood by and did nothing after 26/11. 

you bet. It wasn't just MMS' call post 26/11. COAS at that time must have told him that GOI will have to own up the casualty figures of any conflict. Non-action was a end result of both set of decision makers chickening out. 

[surajmal]

4 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

We don’t even have a functioning kaveri engine despite millions of rupees invested in the program. Only when somebody like parrikar comes along will these people get serious about their job. Without Parrikar, LCA Tejas would have met same fate as Arjun. 

Millions of rupees gets you ghanta. Umrika/UK/France have spent tens of billions over decades. 

[FischerTal]

4 minutes ago, surajmal said:

you bet. It wasn't just MMS' call post 26/11. COAS at that time must have told him that GOI will have to own up the casualty figures of any conflict. Non-action was a end result of both set of decision makers chickening out. 

I think deepak kapoor was COAS at that time. He himself was accused in adarsh scam. 

[FischerTal]

3 minutes ago, surajmal said:

Millions of rupees gets you ghanta. Umrika/UK/France have spent tens of billions over decades. 

Indian Defence PSUs will not make a decent product even if you spend trillions into a project. We are going back to AK-203 to equip the army while OFB continues to twiddle their thumbs

[surajmal]

1 minute ago, FischerTal said:

I think deepak kapoor was COAS at that time. He himself was accused in adarsh scam. 

Deepak Kapoor has got a **** load of stains on him. One of them being the Col. purohit saga. That fecker, if he had any honour, could sink entire Congress for good, if he was willing to come out with all the **** CONgis were doing during those years. But it involves him falling on the sword first.  

[surajmal]

3 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

Indian Defence PSUs will not make a decent product even if you spend trillions into a project. We are going back to AK-203 to equip the army while OFB continues to twiddle their thumbs

Indian Defence PSUs aren't a monolith. Some setups are doing plenty of good on meagre budgets. Missile program is a living breathing example. 

[FischerTal]

2 minutes ago, surajmal said:

Deepak Kapoor has got a **** load of stains on him. One of them being the Col. purohit saga. That fecker, if he had any honour, could sink entire Congress for good, if he was willing to come out with all the **** CONgis were doing during those years. But it involves him falling on the sword first.  

He is just the tip of the iceberg. Notice how not one Para SF officer has ever become COAS. Para SF do majority of the grunt work on the LoC and IB yet they get the least representation amongst the senior officer cadre. In the past few years, most top positions have been occupied by majority Gurkha rifles based officers

[FischerTal]

3 minutes ago, surajmal said:

Indian Defence PSUs aren't a monolith. Some setups are doing plenty of good on meagre budgets. Missile program is a living breathing example. 

Army DPSUs are the worst of the lot. The arjun saga made me want to pull out my hair!

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, FischerTal said:

Most of the defence budget goes into pensions. Problem is that the army needs to downsize and transform into a technology-based army rather than rely on too much manpower. 

 

Edit: lol, I just saw the quote from OP that tells you what I said. Apologies

It will be hilarious if keyboard warriors will be called warriors literally sometime in the future.

[FischerTal]

8 minutes ago, MechEng said:

It will be hilarious if keyboard warriors will be called warriors literally sometime in the future.

Technology as in advanced weapons and leading the cyber-warfare race

[surajmal]

9 hours ago, FischerTal said:

Army DPSUs are the worst of the lot. The arjun saga made me want to pull out my hair!

Intitial versions of T90s were literally proven to be ovens when used in Rajasthan with no nighttime capabilities. Entire procurement was a boondoggle. Again, don't go by what is floated in the media. 

[beetle]

12 hours ago, surajmal said:

Most army officers used to be gungadeens (many still are). I have seen it upfront. Retired faujis, wearing ascots, carrying a swagger stick while walking their german shepherds in the morning. You cannot expect such people to solve real problems. They are useless. 

What the hell do you expect retired faujis to do?

They have done what they were asked to do and deserve their walks in peace.

 

 

 

[surajmal]

6 hours ago, beetle said:

What the hell do you expect retired faujis to do?

They have done what they were asked to do and deserve their walks in peace.

 

 

 

Not when they are retired but while still in service. Their cartoonish getup sheds a light on their double digit IQ. An ascot is proverbially a dog collar. Dog collar of the goras, not dirty brown civilians. As these goose stepping morons walk with a chi chi attitude to everything around them... result of 20 yrs of sheltered cantonment living.