Muslims in this village divide road on caste lines

[Stradlater]

Caste runs deep in Indian society and religion is no bar. In Bihar's Muzaffarpur, a Muslim mohalla has a road that has been split into two. People living in the area have divided the road that divides them by building a wall. Half of the road now belongs to the Sheikhs, considered upper caste, and the other half to the Ansaris, considered lower in the caste order among Muslims. The problem is the narrow road has a wall in the middle and is useless for cars or other four-wheelers.

 

Damodarpuri Tola in Panapur Haveli panchayat in Muzaffarpur's Kanti is a Muslim-dominated village. Sheikhs among them have had their domination questioned by Ansaris.

 

Recently, on November 18, a wedding in an Ansari household led to a fight between the two communities within the community. The Sheikhs did not like the Sheikh-level pomp and show on the Ansari side. A quarrel turned into a free for all.

 

The ensuing mediation round returned a verdict that ended in construction of a wall dividing the road and prohibiting entry into each other's turf. Speaking to our reporter, Naseeruddin Ansari accused the Sheikhs of mistreating them. He is happy with the wall because, well, 'we don't want to do anything with them'.

 

Sheikhs claim no such history of animosity between the two communities. They believe a minor tiff has been blown out of proportion. Mohammed Salim told our reporter that the casteist scuffle has led to the wall that separates them and the mosque on the Ansari side.

 

"We cannot go to offer namaz to that side. It's an irony that people who follow one religion and one book have erected a wall that divides them into two. What can be worse than this?" Salim said.

 

Both the sides had filed cases with the police after that wedding fight. District Magistrate Mohammed Sohail did not comment on the issue.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/muslims-in-this-bihar-village-divide-road-on-caste-lines-1405849-2018-12-09

_____________

Casteism amongst Muslims is a grave issue which very few people want to talk about. I have personally witnessed the discrimination in my village itself.

Hopefully one day we would see Ravish Kumar covering this matter as well as he does covering downtrodden of Hindu society blaming everything on Brahminical patriarchy.

[Gollum]

Casteism is an issue in Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism...talking about South Asia here. But guess which group's the target for libtards? 

[Gollum]

Having spent significant time in Goa, Bengaluru, Hyderabad, Chennai I can see that South Indian Christians are extremely casteist. In Bengal casteism is more or less absent or very weak, one thing Bengalis can be proud of. 

[Stradlater]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Casteism is an issue in Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism...talking about South Asia here. But guess which group's the target for libtards? 

Nadeem Hasnain is a famous Indian Anthropologist who has written extensively on the subject. I agree with him on many points too but Hasnain saheb conveniently brushes aside the problem rampant in the Indian Islamic society. This is how Libtards work. It's all Hindus fault.

[velu]

christian nadars wont warry anyone other than christian nadars in tn .. 

also in majority of the cases , upper caste Christians wont marry recent dalit converts ..

 

same applies to muslims as well

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Stradlater said:

Nadeem Hasnain is a famous Indian Anthropologist who has written extensively on the subject. I agree with him on many points too but Hasnain saheb conveniently brushes aside the problem rampant in the Indian Islamic society. This is how Libtards work. It's all Hindus fault.

They are never wrong. It is either fault of others or a grand saazish to show them in poor light. 

[Stradlater]

Kayamkhanis who are Rajput converts to Islam in Rajasthan only marry amongst themselves. I have seen similar case among Pathans in Jaipur as well.

[Mariyam]

And Muslims are accused of not assimilating!!

Even after incorporating such facets of the host culture.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Mariyam

[Stradlater]

24 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

And Muslims are accused of not assimilating!!

Even after incorporating such facets of the host culture.

 

 

 

I know you are being sarcastic but I have seen Pakistanis employing this classic tactic whenever anybody points out some glaring drawbacks in their culture such as honor killings etc.

But but but that's a remnant of our Hindu past.....

Edited March 28, 2019 by Stradlater

[Mariyam]

1 minute ago, Stradlater said:

I know you are being sarcastic but I have seen Pakistanis employing this classic tactic whenever somebody points glaring drawbacks in their culture such as honor killings etc. But but but that's a remnant of our Hindu past.....

Don't take undue credit. If I am not mistaken, honour killings were a cultural legacy of the Arabian peninsula from the Pre-Islamic era.

[Stradlater]

3 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Don't take undue credit. If I am not mistaken, honour killings were a cultural legacy of the Arabian peninsula from the Pre-Islamic era.

Guess us people from Rajasthan and Haryana should start blaming Islam for bringing that tradition along with then , eh?

Take that Pakistanis.

[Mariyam]

4 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Guess us people from Rajasthan and Haryana should start blaming Islam for bringing that tradition along with then , eh?

Take that Pakistanis.

@Muloghonto would be a better person to answer that question. I think the practice of 'lets kill the woman, to satisfy our blood lust' has existed in many places simultaneously. I don't think one "culture" can claim a copyright infringement here.

[Mariyam]

Also, @Stradlater

Among the urban Pathans/Pashtuns the practice of marrying within the tribe/community is waning. So much so that majority of the marriages would be outside of the Pathan community.

However, in rural India, UP especially, the Pathans tend to marry within the Pathan community and many a times within the same tribe/sub tribe. The practice is more rigid among the land holding Pathans.

[Stradlater]

4 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Muloghonto would be a better person to answer that question. I think the practice of 'lets kill the woman, to satisfy our blood lust' has existed in many places simultaneously. I don't think one "culture" can claim a copyright infringement here.

Well certain Dharmashastras do prescribe quite a strict moral code for women to observe therefore yes the practice must have been prevalent in ancient India too even if on a comparatively smaller scale.

[Stradlater]

2 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Also, @Stradlater

Among the urban Pathans/Pashtuns the practice of marrying within the tribe/community is waning. So much so that majority of the marriages would be outside of the Pathan community.

However, in rural India, UP especially, the Pathans tend to marry within the Pathan community and many a times within the same tribe/sub tribe. The practice is more rigid among the land holding Pathans.

I can only speak for my friends' families in Jaipur.

Anyway this trend isn't exclusive to Muslims alone and intercaste marriages in Urban India have become norm amongst Hindus as well.

Kayamkhanis which I have mentioned earlier are mostly rural and strictly adhere to endogamy though things are changing but not as much as one would expect in 2019.

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Muloghonto would be a better person to answer that question. I think the practice of 'lets kill the woman, to satisfy our blood lust' has existed in many places simultaneously. I don't think one "culture" can claim a copyright infringement here.

To be honest, it is either the Arabs who brought it or the Hepthalites who brought it with them. 

Can't be sure. Btw, amongst the whole 'Muslims destroyed us' clamor, we often forget completely about the Hepthalites - the Alchon Huns. Its they, not the Turks, who destroyed Gandhara utterly, annihilated Pataliputra and ended classical Indian civilization ( which ends with the Gupta Era).

 

Details of the Alchon Huns ( Hepthalites) are murky, but they shared a lot of common feature with the west Asians, in terms of how they had an overly exgaggerated machismo culture to them, absolutely hated Buddhism and Jainism, were ardent Sun worshippers ( though not Zoroastrian/Hindu style intricate ritualistic ceremonies). 

 

The Huns are the forefathers of the Afghan cultural amalgam. Their dominant clan was the 12 allied clans calling themselves the Yeopthal, who ruled over the other Alchon hun tribes. The Yeopthal terminology gets converted to 'Hepthal' in Greco-Roman European languages ( The Centum branch of Indo-European Languages), while they get converted to 'Abdal' in the Indo-Iranian satem group languages ( the Hepthalites themselves were the speakers of now-extinct Tocharian branch of IE language). The Abdal term is the moniker of the Abdali clan and the Abdal-Afghan link was noted first by British Indologists who documented that amogst the Nuristanis, Chitralis and such ( the inhabitants of Kaffiristan, the area of Afghanistan that didn't get converted to Islam till 1890s) referred to the Afghans/Pashtuns as 'Abdals'. 

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Well certain Dharmashastras do prescribe quite a strict moral code for women to observe therefore yes the practice must have been prevalent in ancient India too even if on a comparatively smaller scale.

Doubtful.

Faxian comes to India during the height of the Gupta Empire and Huen Tsang follows during Harshavardhana's era. Both travelled extensively, both left extensive records. And both noted, with some astonishment, that capital punishment was missing in India, with the Indian legal system operating not on the basis of rajas and maharajas dispensing justice, but having seperate judges, who's sole job was to adjudicate, with the option to appeal to the rajas and maharajas, etc. 

 

So a culture that does not have capital punishment, its highly unlikely for them to have honor killings. 

[Stradlater]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Doubtful.

Faxian comes to India during the height of the Gupta Empire and Huen Tsang follows during Harshavardhana's era. Both travelled extensively, both left extensive records. And both noted, with some astonishment, that capital punishment was missing in India, with the Indian legal system operating not on the basis of rajas and maharajas dispensing justice, but having seperate judges, who's sole job was to adjudicate, with the option to appeal to the rajas and maharajas, etc. 

 

So a culture that does not have capital punishment, its highly unlikely for them to have honor killings. 

Mulo, Huen Tsang also noted that crime was rampant during Harsha's times(poor guy was robbed multiple times by highway robbers) and that the usual punishment for thievery was cutting off convict's limbs ala Arab style therefore situation wasn't as rosy as one would like to believe.

I am not claiming honor killing was a characteristic feature of ancient Indian society but from the change observed in status of women from the post Vedic period and tightening norms of Dharmashastras , one could extrapolate that something like that must have been going on. 

But then again it's totally my hypothesis and I could be wrong too of course.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Stradlater said:

Mulo, Huen Tsang also noted that crime was rampant during Harsha's times(poor guy was robbed multiple times by highway robbers) and that the usual punishment for thievery was cutting off convict's limbs ala Arab style therefore situation wasn't as rosy as one would like to believe.

I am not saying he said there was no crime in India. He said there was no capital punishment, meaning there was no death penalty. Remember, this is the world where often theft itself is a capital punishment, even in the 'civilized western nations', as late as late 1800s. Hence he was astonished with the lack of death penalty. 

Just now, Stradlater said:

I am not claiming honor killing was a characteristic feature of ancient Indian society but from the change observed in status of women from the post Vedic period and tightening norms of Dharmashastras , one could extrapolate that something like that must have been going on. 

But then again it's totally my hypothesis and I could be wrong too of course.

Well, having a strict moral code for women and enforcing it strictly does not make it party to honor killings. Greece for eg has had very strict code of conduct for women, so too for Italy, both up until the last 30-40 years being very conservative. And they don't have honor killings either. 

 

Your speculation is as valid (or invalid) as mine. I am simply speculating that in a society that astonishes foreign authors for lack of death penalty, it is extremely unlikely to have honor killings. 

[Stradlater]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am not saying he said there was no crime in India. He said there was no capital punishment, meaning there was no death penalty. Remember, this is the world where often theft itself is a capital punishment, even in the 'civilized western nations', as late as late 1800s. Hence he was astonished with the lack of death penalty. 

Well, having a strict moral code for women and enforcing it strictly does not make it party to honor killings. Greece for eg has had very strict code of conduct for women, so too for Italy, both up until the last 30-40 years being very conservative. And they don't have honor killings either. 

 

Your speculation is as valid (or invalid) as mine. I am simply speculating that in a society that astonishes foreign authors for lack of death penalty, it is extremely unlikely to have honor killings. 

Yeah in the absence of a concrete proof it's a mere speculation at the end of the day.