Six hitting by Top, Middle, Lower order in the last 2 years

[vvvslaxman]

Top order

 

[vvvslaxman]

Middle order

 

[vvvslaxman]

Lower order

 

[vvvslaxman]

In one-dayers even though it is not an essential requirement, it reflects on how each team approaches the batting. Australia is gathering momentum now. They will come up with a team that will outbat us on any surface. England has enough fire power right till no.10. West Indies has the fire power as well. Do we have the fire power to finish well? Sadly not. Dhoni eats so many balls before hitting a couple. Pandya is the only exception. Rest are not known for finishing well. Any top order collapse or middle order collapse mean subpar total.

[prasen82]

the ODI rules have changed. we are going with test match philosophy into ODIs. too many specialists in the team. 

 

to put in software parlance, while the rest of the world is following agile we are in waterfall model..

[zen]

one can have a lower SR despite hitting 6s as seen below (vs major teams in since Jan 1 2017):

 

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Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2017

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500

Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
HH Pandya	2017-2019	27	20	4	616	83	38.50	515	119.61	0	4	1	40	33
KM Jadhav	2017-2019	30	21	4	700	120	41.17	697	100.43	1	4	0	76	12
V Kohli	2017-2019	34	34	5	2150	160*	74.13	2252	95.47	9	8	1	195	24
S Dhawan	2017-2019	32	32	2	1293	143	43.10	1356	95.35	3	7	2	175	13
RG Sharma	2017-2019	35	35	2	1616	147	48.96	1823	88.64	6	8	3	142	54
MS Dhoni	2017-2019	34	25	8	812	134	47.76	1002	81.03	1	5	1	59	17

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, zen said:

one can have a lower SR despite hitting 6s as seen below (vs major teams in since Jan 1 2017):

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2017

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500

Ordered by batting strike rate (descending)

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Showing 1 - 6 of 6

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
HH Pandya	2017-2019	27	20	4	616	83	38.50	515	119.61	0	4	1	40	33
KM Jadhav	2017-2019	30	21	4	700	120	41.17	697	100.43	1	4	0	76	12
V Kohli	2017-2019	34	34	5	2150	160*	74.13	2252	95.47	9	8	1	195	24
S Dhawan	2017-2019	32	32	2	1293	143	43.10	1356	95.35	3	7	2	175	13
RG Sharma	2017-2019	35	35	2	1616	147	48.96	1823	88.64	6	8	3	142	54
MS Dhoni	2017-2019	34	25	8	812	134	47.76	1002	81.03	1	5	1	59	17

 

 

Finishers are obviously going to have a high strike rate. That is their role.  If anything IPL proves it is the team that finishes well invariably wins. Dhoni finishing, Pandya finishing two matches, Pant finishing in one match. Teams can start with 100/0 and quickly go down to 120/5. Especially with current Indian line up, Once you lose your 3rd wicket you are going to shut the shop down as two more wickets you are into the tail who are worth no more than 15 runs between them.  From 100/0 you could end up with 135 all out. Pant;s rash stroke cost them the game. IT could very well happen in one dayers where you have a 2.5 times more overs.

[zen]

18 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Finishers are obviously going to have a high strike rate. That is their role.  If anything IPL proves it is the team that finishes well invariably wins. Dhoni finishing, Pandya finishing two matches, Pant finishing in one match. Teams can start with 100/0 and quickly go down to 120/5. Especially with current Indian line up, Once you lose your 3rd wicket you are going to shut the shop down as two more wickets you are into the tail who are worth no more than 15 runs between them.  From 100/0 you could end up with 135 all out. Pant;s rash stroke cost them the game. IT could very well happen in one dayers where you have a 2.5 times more overs.

5

It depends upon what your batting order is, the tactics, who the in-form batsmen are, who is batting .... this yr:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 100

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
MS Dhoni	9	8	4	327	87*	81.75	418	78.22	0	4	1	22	6
V Kohli	11	11	0	611	123	55.54	648	94.29	3	1	0	57	5
KM Jadhav	11	9	3	290	81*	48.33	326	88.95	0	2	0	30	3
RG Sharma	13	13	0	556	133	42.76	701	79.31	1	4	1	44	16
S Dhawan	13	13	1	420	143	35.00	475	88.42	1	2	2	52	4
V Shankar	9	5	0	165	46	33.00	171	96.49	0	0	0	14	4
AT Rayudu	10	10	2	247	90	30.87	328	75.30	0	1	2	24	6

Edited April 4, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

It depends upon what your batting order is, the tactics, who is batting .... this yr:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2019 and 31 Dec 2019

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 100

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 7 of 7

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Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
MS Dhoni	9	8	4	327	87*	81.75	418	78.22	0	4	1	22	6
V Kohli	11	11	0	611	123	55.54	648	94.29	3	1	0	57	5
KM Jadhav	11	9	3	290	81*	48.33	326	88.95	0	2	0	30	3
RG Sharma	13	13	0	556	133	42.76	701	79.31	1	4	1	44	16
S Dhawan	13	13	1	420	143	35.00	475	88.42	1	2	2	52	4
V Shankar	9	5	0	165	46	33.00	171	96.49	0	0	0	14	4
AT Rayudu	10	10	2	247	90	30.87	328	75.30	0	1	2	24	6

Big hitters should always come down the order unless you have everybody going after bowling like  England does. You have only one hitter in the entire line up. Imagine him losing his wicket in the first over. you are left with 49 overs. Who is going to accelerate at the end?  You would rather want them at the end.  India's biggest problem is lack of finishers due to extremely weak tail. You could score 200 in the first 10 overs, if you lose 5 wickets doing that.. you will end up getting bowled out for 250 with this lineup.  

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, prasen82 said:

the ODI rules have changed. we are going with test match philosophy into ODIs. too many specialists in the team. 

 

to put in software parlance, while the rest of the world is following agile we are in waterfall model..

We have regressed big time. We did not identify the right guys who have the ability to do these things. We just recycled players as long as we could knowing fully well they were not going to be part of 2019 world cup.

[zen]

17 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Big hitters should always come down the order unless you have everybody going after bowling like  England does. You have only one hitter in the entire line up. Imagine him losing his wicket in the first over. you are left with 49 overs. Who is going to accelerate at the end?  You would rather want them at the end.  India's biggest problem is lack of finishers due to extremely weak tail. You could score 200 in the first 10 overs, if you lose 5 wickets doing that.. you will end up getting bowled out for 250 with this lineup.  

It depends upon tactics, form, where the key batsmen are slated, etc., .... For many, Ind batting = Kohli, so the game starts when he walks in whether at 3 or 5 or wherever 

 

We do not know what Ind batting is going to be. And  guys like Pandya, Shankar, Pant, etc., are versatile and talented enough (and they are the ones who are currently showing good for too) 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Jadeja as an all rounder down the order is such a big bogus. This guy can't connect let alone hitting six against pace bowlers. He is just a bowler who can field well. These fake all rounders only complicate things.

[GautiMaan]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Big hitters should always come down the order unless you have everybody going after bowling like  England does. You have only one hitter in the entire line up. Imagine him losing his wicket in the first over. you are left with 49 overs. Who is going to accelerate at the end?  You would rather want them at the end.  India's biggest problem is lack of finishers due to extremely weak tail. You could score 200 in the first 10 overs, if you lose 5 wickets doing that.. you will end up getting bowled out for 250 with this lineup.  

Yes the team management has to be a bit clever.

In the last ODI against Aus they sent Pant at no.4 which was a big blunder.You need to hold back your finishers like Dk,Pant etc.

We need to identify guys who can consolidate as well as go at a decent clip in the middle overs.IMO Jhadav and Shankar are good enough for that role.Just boot out Ambatti and some of the problems solve themselves.

[Stan AF]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Jadeja as an all rounder down the order is such a big bogus. This guy can't connect let alone hitting six against pace bowlers. He is just a bowler who can field well. These fake all rounders only complicate things.

A very terrible joke haunting the indian team since 2009.

[nikred]

Jadeja as an all rounder down the order is such a big bogus. This guy can't connect let alone hitting six against pace bowlers. He is just a bowler who can field well. These fake all rounders only complicate things.

Just make him a permanent 12th man.

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[prasen82]

Jadhav and VS have similar skills. They should be number 4. Considering MSd is not returning at number 5, pant/DK at 6 and pandya at 7.

 

Ideal combo would be Mayank, dhawan/Rohit ,Kohli, Vijay Shankar,pant,DK, Hardik