What are the objections upon FM Hussain regarding his paintings of gods?

[Alam_dar]

When I see the criticism upon MF Hussain and Liberals regarding his paintings, then I wonder if these people really know the facts regarding the paintings or they are only carried away from the propaganda, or perhaps I am unable to understand their objections. 

 

That is why I am opening up this separate thread and invite all to bring your objections here. 

 

May I ask you people:

 

(1) Do you know that Judicial Judgement (link)?

 

(2) Do you know that there exist many other  such art works (in fact in more details) than MF Hussain's paintings (link)?

 

(3) Hinduism is an old religion. At that time women in Indian Sub-Continent were not wearing tops (Actually they were topless in some Indian areas even till the coming of Britishers). 

Thus, when the stories were written about the religion at that time, then those stories were the image of the society and thus gods were doing mistakes like humans and also wearing the same dresses etc. 

 

(4) In modern societies, we know evolution of mankind and it's dress, and we know there are still many old tribes where women are still topless today.

Today, we believe there is nothing wrong if women are topless culturally, while culture followed the environments and in hot areas people were hardly using excessive clothings. 

It does not count as against modesty. 

 

(5) And it were only some religions which made dress as a sign of modesty much much later in the human evolution. 

Atheist Western Women are again going topless today in the season of summer. 

While up to 80-90% of Muslim women in Europe are suffering from Vitamin-D deficiency due to Hijab issue. Actually, even in Karachi (link) and Arabic countries (link) too up to 80-90% Muslim women are suffering due to vitamin-D deficiency due to Hijab. 

Thus Hijab especially (or dress in general) is a curse for human beings. We are a species who evolved naked and our naked bodies have deep connection with the sun and the air and the environment. 

Not only in summer, but also in winter people in Europe are going out naked in snow and taking cold bath while it makes immune system stronger. 

Inuit let their children play naked in snow so that they could face the winter better. 

 

 

 

(6) Recently I saw this objection against MF Hussain's painting:
"Just because allah cant be idolized, it is not halal to paint saraswati nude."

 

In fact, when Islam came, then women in Arabia were also topless. And free Muslim women also stayed topless except for last 6 years of Muhammad. While Islam kept the slave women (even if those slave women were Muslims) topless till the judgement day. 

 

Thousands of slave women were moving in the society during the period of Muhammad topless, and Sahaba were humiliating them in the Bazars of Slavery where they were not only presented topless, but the customers were also allowed to touch their private parts like breasts and thighs before buying. All this is present in the Islamic Traditions. 

 

Therefore, there is no problem if any Artist want to make paintings of Muhammad's era showing slave girls naked. Actually there already exist such paintings. 

 

 

 

 

Sunan al-Kubra by Imam Beyhaqi:

عن نافع ، عن ابن عمر ” أنه كان إذا اشترى جارية كشف عن ساقها ووضع يده بين ثدييها و على عجزها
Nafe’e narrated that whenever Ibn Umar wanted to buy a slave-girl, he would inspect her by analysing her legs and placing his hands between her breasts and on her buttocks”

Irwa al-Ghalil [6:201] by Sheikh Albani states:

أن ابن عمر كان يضع يده بين ثدييها ( يعني الجارية ) وعلى عجزها من فوق الثياب ويكشف عن ساقها
“Ibn `Umar (ra) used to put his hand between her [meaning the jariya’s] breasts and on her haunch from above (her) clothes and used to unveil her leg.”

Sheikh Hamza Yusuf says,

In an Islamic system in Medina there were women walking around bare breasted, and that is a fact, that is a historical fact and you can read it and look it up in the books.  Umar did not allow the ima (slave girl) to wear the hijab.  Source: Video on Youtube at 1min 16seconds

===

There are many other Islamic Traditions regarding slave girls. If you want to collect them, then let me know and I will post them here. 

Please also note that Muslims also bought small slave girls to masturbate them and for other sex services (including penetration even at age of 5 or 6 years if girls saw healthy enough to them). And these slave children were often totally naked. 

 

Therefore, I don't think you should worry about Muslims in India. They have no right to make fun of naked idols when they have much much bigger and serious problem in their religion. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Alam_dar

[vayuu1]

Actually it's mf hussain. 

[Gollum]

Bhai since you are such a liberal/atheist/humanist/ethical/large-hearted/broad minded gem of a human being I have a polite request. Please arrange a "Draw Prophet Muhammad contest" in the place where you live. I will send monetary contribution from my end to cover the organizing costs and prize money. Just arrange a contest, even if only 50 people participate it's ok, and please video record it so that the world can see. No need to draw obscene pictures, just a simple sketch of the prophet in modest clothing will do. Up for the challenge? Once that is done and if both of us are still alive ICFers will be all ears for your sermons about MF Hussain and Hindu Gods. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Quote

Even the Gandhi and Hitler painting was not far from controversy. Out of the four leaders he painted, Mahatma Gandhi was decapitated, and Hitler was naked. Hussain in an interview said that he had depicted Hitler naked to humiliate him as he believed Hitler deserved it.

LINK

 

So he portrayed Hitler as naked because he hated him but when it came to Hindu deities he painted them nude to show his love and respect 

 

Did he ever show any Muslim as naked? Let's examine a few of his works (made a thread about him on ICF in the past but can't find it )

 

Durga...nude

 

Bharat Mata...nude

 

Durga...nude

 

Draupadi

 

Sita and Hanuman...both nude

 

Laxmi and Ganesh in a compromising position...Laxmi completely nude

 

Mahabharat...more than 1 nude

 

Ganesh...scantily dressed

 

Durga again

 

Kali

 

Half-naked Ganesh sitting on the face of a nude woman....saala Pornhub samjha hai kya?

 

Get the trend?

 

Let's see how he portrays Muslims

 

 

 

 

 

Muslim and Hindu, one regally dressed and the other nude

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

3 things are clear:

 

1. MFH drew Hitler nude because in his own words "he wanted to humiliate him". Totally his prerogative and mindset as an artist, nude=lack of respect as far as he was concerned. 

 

2. MFH portrayed most Hindus as nude and many Hindu deities as well.

 

3. MFH never drew a single Muslim as nude, forget the holy figures.

 

Akalmand ke liye ishara hi kaafi hai. 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, vayuu1 said:

Actually it's mf hussain. 

Thanks bro. 

@ Mods, please change the title. 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Bhai since you are such a liberal/atheist/humanist/ethical/large-hearted/broad minded gem of a human being I have a polite request. Please arrange a "Draw Prophet Muhammad contest" in the place where you live. I will send monetary contribution from my end to cover the organizing costs and prize money. Just arrange a contest, even if only 50 people participate it's ok, and please video record it so that the world can see. No need to draw obscene pictures, just a simple sketch of the prophet in modest clothing will do. Up for the challenge? Once that is done and if both of us are still alive ICFers will be all ears for your sermons about MF Hussain and Hindu Gods. 

It would be unfair if the sins of Muslims are loaded upon me. 

 

As I wrote above, I am totally in favour of making paintings of Muhammad's era, and showing the TRUTH about the slave women in the Islamic society where they were compelled to be topless, and they were beaten by the Caliphs if they by mistake took the Hijab. 

 

There are already paintings there which are showing how the naked slave girls were sold in the Bazars of slavery during Muhammad's Era. 

 

I firmly believe, it is much more important to make world (especially Normal Muslims) aware of the plight of the slave women under Islamic Sharia, either written or through paintings or whatever medium is possible to be used. It is much more beneficial than making naked painting and claiming that it is Muhammad.

 

Thus, I have been performing my duty (i.e. to make world aware of the realities about Muahmmad's era, about Sharia, about slavery ...) as much as I can, even at the great risk of my own life. 

[sukhoi]

23 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

It would be unfair if the sins of Muslims are loaded upon me. 

 

As I wrote above, I am totally in favour of making paintings of Muhammad's era, and showing the TRUTH about the slave women in the Islamic society where they were compelled to be topless, and they were beaten by the Caliphs if they by mistake took the Hijab. 

 

There are already paintings there which are showing how the naked slave girls were sold in the Bazars of slavery during Muhammad's Era. 

 

I firmly believe, it is much more important to make world (especially Normal Muslims) aware of the plight of the slave women under Islamic Sharia, either written or through paintings or whatever medium is possible to be used. It is much more beneficial than making naked painting and claiming that it is Muhammad.

 

Thus, I have been performing my duty (i.e. to make world aware of the realities about Muahmmad's era, about Sharia, about slavery ...) as much as I can, even at the great risk of my own life. 

in your above posts you have clearly been biased just like MF Husein (who had his last breadth outside his home, which he deserved)

 

all those talks about your slavery girls where all captives and are called KAFIRS WHO MUSLIM FROM THE START HAD USED FOR SLAVERY AND BENEFIT TO DEGRADE THEM

 

WHICH ALSO HAPPENED IN RECENT ISIS STRONG HOLD HAVE YOU HEARD YAZIDI GIRLS AND THIER PLIGHT THAT WAS SLAVERY AND IT IS WHAT DEPICTED IN YOUR PICTURE TO SHOW THE ARROGANCE OF MUSLIMS DURING THEIR TIME IT IS NOT CALLED FREEDOM IN PAINTING WHICH IS WHAT MFH TRIED TO SHOW WHEN HE DEPICTED HINDU GODDESS NAKED AND YOU COMPATING WITH PIC OF MUSLIMS WORLD WHEN THEY ACTUALLY ARE KAFIRS (SLAVE/CAPTURED/CAPTIVES)

 

YOU DO NOT WANT TO MOVE 100's of years before just in this current century think of ISIS AND YAZIDI GIRLS AND THEIR TORTURE THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SHOWING AND BLOUGHING 

 

TRY THESE LINKS BELOW 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/09/10/i-am-a-14-year-old-yazidi-girl-given-as-a-gift-to-an-isis-commander-heres-how-i-escaped/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4543d5825daa

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nishitajha/isis-yazidi-shamima-begum-hoda-muthana

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-sex-slave-yazidi-girl-northern-iraq-rape-sexual-abuse-experiences-a7857246.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-sex-slave-yazidi-girl-northern-iraq-rape-sexual-abuse-experiences-a7857246.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-sex-slave-yazidi-girl-northern-iraq-rape-sexual-abuse-experiences-a7857246.html

 

A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH WILL LEAD YOU MANY RESULTS

 

BUT A GOOD TRY THOUGH

[Gollum]

MFH despite the controversies, when he died had career earnings of approx Rs 675 crores (M.F. Hussain remains highest earning Indian artist in art auctions).

 

Other prominent awards include Padma Shri (1966), Padma Bhushan (1973), Padma Vibhushan (1991) and was even nominated for Bharat Ratna multiple times.

 

Example:

Letter to President of India in support of Bharat Ratna for M.F.Hussain on 17th November 2006 (majority signatories being Hindus, some very prominent ones)

 

Quote

Letter  to President of India in support of M.F.Hussain on 17th November 2006
 

Honourable President, We, the undersigned, write to you to suggest that the arts and the nation would be made proud if the contribution of the distinguished artist, Maqbool Fida Husain, is recognized in the form of the highest award of the land: India’s Bharat Ratna.  M.F. Husain has received national and international recognition in abundance; it remains for him to join the constellation of Bharat Ratna awardees — Satyajit Ray, M.S. Subbalakshmi, Ravi Shankar, Bismillah Khan, Lata Mangeshkar — to become one the most treasured artists of this country. A large number of artists, art historians and critics, as well as spectators in the general public, believe that M.F. Husain, the 91-year-old painter and filmmaker, most fully belongs in this constellation. The Indian civilization, in all its diversity, has been Husain’s basic inspirational project. Since the year of Independence, through the Nehruvian decades and thereon, cognizant of all the challenges involved in nation-building, Husain has been steadfast in maintaining a most affirmative relationship with the Indian peoples’ consciousness of their national identity. Through him, we have learned to address a whole gamut of issues pertaining to the interactive dynamic of modernity with the country’s many-layered art and culture. We believe that he has made a signal contribution in reworking the aesthetic traditions of India including especially the tradition of iconographic innovation. He is among those few modern artists who have focused on mythological and epic narratives, and, for over half a century, he has painted themes from the epics in literally thousands of paintings and drawings. This alone speaks of his passion for these narratives and, further, of his understanding that their literary,

performing and visual form has changed through the centuries, and therefore carries the mandate for new articulations within the contemporary.  Equally important, these series of Husain paintings have been shown in urban and rural sites through unique modes of public dissemination. And it speaks of the generous comprehension of this project by viewers all over India, viewers who cut across barriers of class and culture, that they have been received with the affectionate regard and playful participation they require.  Posterity will certainly name Husain as one of the most prominent post-Indpendence artists to shape the contemporary in the spirit of a living and changing tradition. More than any other modern artist in India, he has understood how a syncretic civilization and the dynamics of a multi-ethnic, multi-religious nation have together prompted these interpretations and empowered the community of artists to evolve a uniquely modern language consistent with the complexity of these civilizational narratives.  Indeed, Husain is such an iconic figure that we could use the very iconography of Maqbool Fida Husain, of the person himself, to forward ideas about Indian visual culture in the framework of a dynamic public sphere. Already, his life and work are beginning to serve as an allegory for the changing modalities of the secular in modern India — and the challenges that the narrative of the nation holds for many of us. This is the opportune, and crucial, time to honour him for his dedication and courage to the cultural renaissance of his beloved country. Yours sincerely Vivan Sundaram, Ashok Vajpeyi, Gulammohammed Sheikh, Krishen Khanna, Ram Rahman, M.K. Raina, Geeta Kapur, Arpita Singh

 

 

A.Ramachandaran, Aditi De, Akbar, Padamsee, Alaknanda, Patel, AmitJudge, Amiya,Bagchi, Aneesh Pradhan, Anil Chandra,Anuradha Kapur, Arun Vadhera, Ashutosh Gowarikar, Astad Deboo, Astad Deboo, Atul Bhalla, Atul Tiwari, Aziz Mirza, Bal Chabda, Balkrishan Doshi, Bharati Kher, Bhaskar Chandavarkar, C.P. Chandrasekhar, D.N. Jha, Dadi Pudumjee, Dadiba Pundole, Dolly Narang, E. Alkazi, Gayatri Sinha, Geetha Mehra, Gitanjali Shree, Indira Chandrasekhar, Indra Pramit Roy, Irfan Habib, Javeed Alam, Jayati Ghosh, Jitish Kallat, Jogen Chowdhury, Jyotindra Jain, K.Bikram Singh, K.G.Subramanyan, K. T. Ravindran, Kedar Nath Singh, Kekoo Gandhy, Khorsheed Gandhy, Krishen Baldev Vaid, Kumar Shahani, Kundan Shah, Laxma Gaud, Madan Gopal Singh, Madhu Prasad, Madhukar Upadhyaya, Malini Bhattacharya, Mani Kaul, Maya Rao, Meera Nair, Mihir Bhattacharya, Mrinalini Mukherjee, Muzaffer Ali, Nadira Babbar, Nagji Patel, Nalini Malani, Namwar Singh, Navjot Altaf, Neelam Man Singh, Nilima Sheikh, Paramjit Singh, Paritosh Sen, Parthiv Shah, Prabhat Patnaik, Prasanna, Pushpamala N, Rafeeq Elias, Raj Babbar, Raj Rewal, Rajeev Bhargava, Rajendra Yadav, Rajinder Arora, Rajiv Sethi, Ram Kumar, Ramgopal Bajaj, Ranbir Kaleka, Reene Saini Kallat, Renu Modi, Saeed Mirza, Sangita Jindal, Sashi Kumar, Sasidharan Nair. M, Shashi Tharoor, Sheeba Chhachhi,Shireen Gandhi, Shireen Moosvi, Shubha Mudgal, Shyam Benegal, Sohail Hashmi, Subodh Gupta, Sudhir Chandra, Sudhir Mishra,

Does OP know the significance of Padma Vibhushan and Bharat Ratna?

There have been only 48 Bharat Ratnas in independent India, mostly politicians and some non-political gems like CV Raman, M Visweswaraya, JRD Tata, Satyajit Ray, APJ Abdul Kalam etc.

 

Padma Vibhushan which is just below BR is the award held by titans like:

Vikram Sarabhai (Father of India's Space Programme) 

MS Swaminathan (Father of India's Green Revolution)

Verghese Kurien (Father of India's White Revolution)

Edmund Hillary (1st person to climb summit of Mt Everest)

Sam Manekshaw (COAS during 1971 war)

Viswanathan Anand (5 time World Champion of Chess and one of the GOATs of an incredibly competitive endeavor, broke Soviet/Russian hegemony)

Satyendranath Bose (Boson named after him, Einstein's co-researcher)

Arjan Singh (only five star IAF officer till date)

 

Also this bigot MFH got an award which the following people never received: Dhyan Chand, Homi Bhabha, Rash Behari Bose, Netaji Bose, RD Burman, Kapil Dev, Milkha Singh, PT Usha and 1000 other deserving candidates.

 

This is how Hinduphobia is rewarded in India, and then they call Indians intolerant, communal, badmouth the peaceful majority, prop up countries like Pakistan and Syria to put us down. When a Hindu/Sikh in Pakistan becomes the 1st police constable from that community in their nation's history they splash it all over the news and tell India ki this is how we treat minorities, sharam karo blah blah. I mean this is the depth the Islamic countries/societies have sunk to, they point a random Hindu girl in their country who hasn't been raped/converted and use it as a tool to lecture us about minority treatment when we talk glowingly about Kalam and Abdul Hamid. 

 

MFH got way more than he deserved, in any other country including the liberal west he would have been socially boycotted. In any Islamic country he would have been killed long back. This is why I say that majority hardcore Hindutva fanatics are more liberal/tolerant than almost all moderates from the Muslim community.

 

But we are over with this ****, we have tolerated enough. If minorities and libtards think they can continue this nonsense till eternity they will get a befitting response. No more MFHs will command respect and adulation in this country, let them migrate elsewhere and do their nonsense. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Alam_dar]

20 minutes ago, sukhoi said:

in your above posts you have clearly been biased just like MF Husein (who had his last breadth outside his home, which he deserved)

 

all those talks about your slavery girls where all captives and are called KAFIRS WHO MUSLIM FROM THE START HAD USED FOR SLAVERY AND BENEFIT TO DEGRADE THEM

 

WHICH ALSO HAPPENED IN RECENT ISIS STRONG HOLD HAVE YOU HEARD YAZIDI GIRLS AND THIER PLIGHT THAT WAS SLAVERY AND IT IS WHAT DEPICTED IN YOUR PICTURE TO SHOW THE ARROGANCE OF MUSLIMS DURING THEIR TIME IT IS NOT CALLED FREEDOM IN PAINTING WHICH IS WHAT MFH TRIED TO SHOW WHEN HE DEPICTED HINDU GODDESS NAKED AND YOU COMPATING WITH PIC OF MUSLIMS WORLD WHEN THEY ACTUALLY ARE KAFIRS (SLAVE/CAPTURED/CAPTIVES)

 

YOU DO NOT WANT TO MOVE 100's of years before just in this current century think of ISIS AND YAZIDI GIRLS AND THEIR TORTURE THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SHOWING AND BLOUGHING 

 

TRY THESE LINKS BELOW 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/09/10/i-am-a-14-year-old-yazidi-girl-given-as-a-gift-to-an-isis-commander-heres-how-i-escaped/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4543d5825daa

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nishitajha/isis-yazidi-shamima-begum-hoda-muthana

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-sex-slave-yazidi-girl-northern-iraq-rape-sexual-abuse-experiences-a7857246.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-sex-slave-yazidi-girl-northern-iraq-rape-sexual-abuse-experiences-a7857246.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-sex-slave-yazidi-girl-northern-iraq-rape-sexual-abuse-experiences-a7857246.html

 

A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH WILL LEAD YOU MANY RESULTS

 

BUT A GOOD TRY THOUGH

 

I am sorry, I am totally unable to understand your objection upon me. 

 

Muslims today simply refuse to accept ISIS as representator of Islam. They will simply tell you Islam has nothing to do what ISIS do today. 

 

While I go for the head of the snake. 

 

I bring the original Islamic Sharia orders, present in Islamic Fiqh Books and the Tradition books, which Muslims could not deny, they could not run away from it. 

 

Brother, I am afraid you have little idea of how to deal with Islam and Muslims. 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

1. MFH drew Hitler nude because in his own words "he wanted to humiliate him". Totally his prerogative and mindset as an artist, nude=lack of respect as far as he was concerned. 

Things may change in context of history. 

 

M. F. Husain himself has claimed that his paintings were part of an existing Hindu tradition of depicting goddesses in non-Victorian poses: “We Indians are proud to create a civilization of art and culture, enshrined in the sanctity of Ajanta and Ellora caves and temples for last 5,000 years. There the images of Gods and Goddesses are pure and uncovered.” (Sify.com 13th March 2006)

 

For example, here is Saraswati in ancient Hindu Temples:

 

From Gangaikonda, Cholapuram, Tamil Nadu, 1020 AD

 

Saraswati, Jain Temple, Deogarh, Uttar Pradesh

 

Saraswati, 9^th Century AD.

 

 

 

 

Saraswati, Meenakshi Temple, Madurai: Goddess Saraswathi

 

 

 

 

Saraswati:

 

 

 

MF Husain’s Saraswati:

Now, that you have seen these variants of Saraswati, please take a look at the variant from M F Husain and decide for yourself if his depiction is any way obscene compared to the above variants.

 

 

 

===

i care less about gods, but about the humans, and thus I am puzzled with this painting: 

 

In simple words, if MF Hussain was biased towards Hindus and Hinduism, then he made these paintings with this evil intention, then he deserve all the condemnation from my side. 

 

He gets benefits of doubt while artists are some what inclined towards nudity by nature (my observation). 

Christian artists, Roman artists all were making nude/half nude paintings.

The Judicial decision about his case also gave him this benefit of doubt in name of art. 

 

[Gollum]

44 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Things may change in context of history. 

 

M. F. Husain himself has claimed that his paintings were part of an existing Hindu tradition of depicting goddesses in non-Victorian poses: “We Indians are proud to create a civilization of art and culture, enshrined in the sanctity of Ajanta and Ellora caves and temples for last 5,000 years. There the images of Gods and Goddesses are pure and uncovered.” (Sify.com 13th March 2006)

 

For example, here is Saraswati in ancient Hindu Temples:

 

From Gangaikonda, Cholapuram, Tamil Nadu, 1020 AD

 

Saraswati, Jain Temple, Deogarh, Uttar Pradesh

 

Saraswati, 9^th Century AD.

 

 

 

 

Saraswati, Meenakshi Temple, Madurai: Goddess Saraswathi

 

 

 

 

Saraswati:

 

 

 

MF Husain’s Saraswati:

Now, that you have seen these variants of Saraswati, please take a look at the variant from M F Husain and decide for yourself if his depiction is any way obscene compared to the above variants.

 

 

 

===

i care less about gods, but about the humans, and thus I am puzzled with this painting: 

 

In simple words, if MF Hussain was biased towards Hindus and Hinduism, then he made these paintings with this evil intention, then he deserve all the condemnation from my side. 

 

He gets benefits of doubt while artists are some what inclined towards nudity by nature (my observation). 

Christian artists, Roman artists all were making nude/half nude paintings.

The Judicial decision about his case also gave him this benefit of doubt in name of art. 

 

Majority of our Gods are depicted clothed, a few exceptions may be there. Majority of MFH's depictions present them as nude. And nowhere do we have the equivalent of a nude Laxmi in a compromising position with Ganesh, nude Sita/Hanuman, or Ganesh sitting on the face of a nude woman (presumably Goddess !!!). Don't you see a trend, don't you see the mischief? Try making a picture of Jesus performing cunnilingus on Mother Mary and see whether it will be accepted in the liberal west. Only a perverted mind would defend such nonsense. And why hasn't he ever depicted a single Muslim as nude, why didn't he depict his mother as a nude lady? Did he get only Hindus to target? Had he depicted Muslims and Christians like that I would call him pervert. But based on what he has done I will call him a rabid bigot, the artistic equivalent of the Islamist radical preachers whose primary aim was to humiliate the kafirs. Hindus are tolerant, hence he led a peaceful life with lots of rewards and awards. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Alam_dar]

32 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Majority of our Gods are depicted clothed, a few exceptions may be there. Majority of MFH's depictions present them as nude. And nowhere do we have the equivalent of a nude Laxmi in a compromising position with Ganesh, nude Sita/Hanuman, or Ganesh sitting on the face of a nude woman (presumably Goddess !!!). Don't you see a trend, don't you see the mischief? Try making a picture of Jesus performing cunnilingus on Mother Mary and see whether it will be accepted in the liberal west. Only a perverted mind would defend such nonsense. And why hasn't he ever depicted a single Muslim as nude, why didn't he depict his mother as a nude lady? Did he get only Hindus to target? Had he depicted Muslims and Christians like that I would call him pervert. But based on what he has done I will call him a rabid bigot, the artistic equivalent of the Islamist radical preachers who wants to humiliate the kafirs. Hindus are tolerant, hence he led a peaceful life with lots of rewards and awards. 

Ok, fair enough.

 

Your arguments are making sense to me and I could understand your point of view in this case. 

 

Nevertheless, other party is bringing this argument that the "BASE" of drawing nude gods was already there in the Hindu religion. It may be no direct nude paintings of other gods were present, but still Hussain take the benefit of that "base" and at his own draw other figures too. 

 

The case is complicated. Especially when we see that MF Hussain was himself an agnostic (at least he claimed himself so). Then we see indeed he fall in love with Hindu Mythology. 

 

Therefore, it may be that he was not directly biased against Hinduism, but he was a bigot as an artist and thought it his right to draw these figures nude. 

 

The Judicial decision is also giving him this benefit of doubt. 

 

 

[Gollum]

There's a Kali temple near my residence, constructed by a Bengali family and maintained by locals. The Kali here has uncovered breasts and no one bothers. For those who have been to temples, we know what is ok and what is indecent. The avatar, mood of the deity, the presiding rituals/customs all matter. What MFH did was nonsense, how can Ganesh be in that sort of position with Laxmi? They have a son-mother relationship because she adopted him, anyway she is technically his aunt. And then trend matters, had this been one-off he wouldn't have attracted attention. But he kept on repeating similar stuff his whole life even when Hindu community requested him to not hurt their sentiments. Never ever did he do this to other religions. 

 

And what I have observed is those who supported MFH were the same ones who kept mum when Rushdie and Taslima were being hounded by radicals. You can't have double standards, sorry. Anyway he is dead now, hopefully his controversial art pieces are forgotten because they are disgraceful. A real pity he didn't use his talents and social standing to do something constructive, like bringing communities together. That's why despite his talent he could never become an Ustad Bismillah Khan in terms of commanding respect from the wider society. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

@Alam_dar most of the examples of nude images/sculptures you are talking about are apsaras and siddhas on outer walls. Nudity isn't frowned upon in Hinduism but main deities are almost always never nude, at least from my experience. The only nude deities I have seen are those of Kali with breasts exposed. But Ganesh, Sita, Hanuman, Laxmi in nude form is unheard of. Jains have more nudity in their temples in fact very common even for main deities, not Hindus. Even the images of old Saraswati statues you shared....most of them are covered in the vital areas, either by clothes or jewel ornaments, look at them again.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Gollum

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Muslims today simply refuse to accept ISIS as representator of Islam. They will simply tell you Islam has nothing to do what ISIS do today

No one cares. Its islamic state and they have the sacred book koran bwhind them it is islam basically. Pretty clear isis is following islam to the t. 

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

That's why despite his talent

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

That's why despite his talent

What talent really. His art is like a high school sketch. BS.

[diga]

6 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Brother, I am afraid you have little idea of how to deal with Islam and Muslims. 

Ohh man... crypto islamist at it again. Obviously the corollary of you not having any idea about Hinduism holds true. 

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

What MFH did was nonsense, how can Ganesh be in that sort of position with Laxmi? They have a son-mother relationship because she adopted him, anyway she is technically his aunt. And then trend matters, had this been one-off he wouldn't have attracted attention. But he kept on repeating similar stuff his whole life even when Hindu community requested him to not hurt their sentiments. Never ever did he do this to other religions. 

Fair enough. 

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

And what I have observed is those who supported MFH were the same ones who kept mum when Rushdie and Taslima were being hounded by radicals. You can't have double standards, sorry.

Again fair point and I agree. 

 

I don't agree with this mentality of LW where it is asked to respect all the religions. This mentality led to this that LW were condemning Rushdie and Taslima. 

Any how, there is evolution in the behaviour. The LW has also to evolve. The Western system should be studied by LW to know that criticism upon the religions is very necessary part of basic human rights. 

 

The Indian law should also be changed which was used against Rushdie and Taslima and their books were banned. 

 

[Real McCoy]

1. Most of the Hindu gods are not depicted nude. Only apsaras and other mythological figures on the outside of the temple are portrayed as nude/seminude. Ganesh, Saraswati, Parvati, Lakshmi, Sita, and Hanuman are never depicted as nude. Get your facts right OP. Only Kali is sometimes portrayed as nude and it symbolizes destruction as mentioned by @Gollum

2. MF Hussain was a hypocrite. Why post only the slave girls of Arabia as nude. Why not muslim women as nude and mohammad as nude. Do you know why those slave girls and boys are portrayed sometimes in nude. Its like porn to muslims. They are motivating other muslim boys to go after them and convert.

3. He wasn't in any danger of losing his life like a islamic fatwa. He didn't appear in court for hearing for a lawsuit. He got a warrant for arrest and he went to another country to escape this arrest. If he was arrested, his "liberal" views would have been shown as a joke for what it is. Oh BTW he was in trouble with some Muslim orgs as well. So he must have been more scared of them than any arrest.

4. Even the "radical Hindu RWer" (as you call it) Bal Thackeray said "He only slipped up on the depiction of Hindu gods and goddesses. Otherwise, he was happy and content in his field. If his demise is a loss for modern art, then so be it. May Allah give him peace!". Juxtapose this with any Hindu drawing Mohammad (even fully clothed) on a painting. Would the muslim public be so tolerant. Your Hindu RW theory goes in the dumpster.

5. Portraying something as nude promotes immorality especially to a region that has sub 100 IQ. Lots of subpar IQ people aren't gonna get this. MFH wanted this. He seems to be an agent of global forces. If you wanted to destroy a great civilization, you have to conquer it from within. Kali is an aspect of the mother goddess symbolizing destruction and she is portrayed as nude sometimes and having a garland of dead men's skulls and stepping on Shiva in some cases. Mother goddess symbolizes materialism and the Father symbolizes spirituality. A naked mother goddess is rampant materialism and no spirituality that leads to destruction.