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Alam_dar

A movement is needed to stop cousin marriages, just like Triple Talaq

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Before I forget this incident, couple of days ago Muslims were criticizing the practice in Hinduism that cow becomes sacred mother while it feeds people with milk. According to them there was no scientific reason for this and humans drink milk from goat and buffalo too but they don't become mother. 

 

Upon that I had to remind them that in Islam one is not allowed to marry the foster sister while according to Islam feeding milk of woman makes her daughter Haram upon a person.

 

While Science does not support it. Milk is only a diet and no DNA changes take place due to the milk that foster mother/sister becomes Haram. 

 

As compared to fosterage, what really makes difference is a fact if one is marrying his own cousin sister. While science proofs that:

 

* first cousins share 12% common genes and thus the chances of birth defects increases a lot.

* Among 2nd cousins, there are 6% common genes.

* Twins share 100% common genes. 

* Parents share 50% common genes.

* Uncles and Aunties share 12.5% common genes (Judaism allowed the uncles to marry the nieces).

 

 This is a huge problem among the Muslim community due to the cousin marriages. 

 

In Britain, the population of Pakistanis is about 3%. But about 30% children with abnormalities in Britain belong to this 3% community of Pakistanis. Actually, problems are much more than this. There are children with low IQ levels due to cousin marriages, but still they are not detected as birth defects. 

 

British people are now campaigning to prohibit the cousin marriage. It is a Zulm upon the the child. Whole family gets disturb and destroyed due to one disabled child.

 

I believe that it is more important than population control to take control upon the cousin marriages. 

 

Is there any study present in India about the numbers of disabled children, and to which community they belong? If not, then it is time to go for such studies to prevent the dangers for the kids. 

Edited by Alam_dar

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Due to security reasons, I avoid to talk about me or my family. Hope you understand this. 

 

And it is absolutely not a matter of being rich or poor, educated or illiterate among the Pakistani community in Pakistan or in Europe.  Though lately education has started making slight difference. 

But like one part of Pakistani population believes in Human Evolution, while other part denies evolution as it is against the religion, same thing is happening with the cousin marriages. A very tiny part of population has started avoiding cousin marriages, while bigger part still believes that religion of Allah is flawless and defective births could also come through normal marriages and thus no need to avoid the cousin marriages. 

 

Actually, it is not the education which is basic reason for the change in behaviour, but it is the bitter REALITIES of the cousin marriages, which COMPELLED Muslims to let religion aside and act upon the scientific advice. 

 

More than Pakistan, cousin marriage and abnormal births became an issue in Arab Countries like Saudi Arabia. At end, the Islamic Government of Saudi Arabia was compelled to make the Genetic Test Mandatory before the marriage in order to fight against the birth defects caused in huge numbers due to cousin marriages in the Arab society. 

 

After the mandatory genetic test, 165,000 couples broke up in Saudia in year 2015 (link), while science told them about the dangers of abnormal births, and they preferred science over the religion. 

 

Lesson:

 

Islamic countries are going against their own religion in order to save the society against the evils of cousin marriages. 

But Western countries still allow it in name of human rights. 

I don't agree with this western approach. I am all for human rights, but this is Zulm upon the babies. This thing does not fall under the human rights. 

I strongly believe that a movement is needed (also in India) where cousin marriages are either all together prohibited, or at least the genetic test becomes mandatory upon the couples to pass. This is not discrimination against Muslims, but it is about healthy human society and it's existence.  

Edited by Alam_dar

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19 minutes ago, velu said:

maternal side cousin marriages was common in south india esp in tn ..

there are many hit movies based on it as well..

 

its rare now , but its not uncommon 

I came to know about this when I was working in bangalore, one of my colleague who was a hindu fron andhra married his cousin, i was shocked since I thought only muslims practiced. He also said that it was pretty common in his place

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19 minutes ago, ProudLiberal said:

I came to know about this when I was working in bangalore, one of my colleague who was a hindu fron andhra married his cousin, i was shocked since I thought only muslims practiced. He also said that it was pretty common in his place

Not just Hindus....Kashmiri Sikhs also practice cousin marriages. They are known as 'Bhapa ji's' 

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1 hour ago, ProudLiberal said:

I came to know about this when I was working in bangalore, one of my colleague who was a hindu fron andhra married his cousin, i was shocked since I thought only muslims practiced. He also said that it was pretty common in his place

some perverts use this opportunity to sexually abuse little girls bastards really thinks that it is their right

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2 hours ago, velu said:

maternal side cousin marriages was common in south india esp in tn ..

there are many hit movies based on it as well..

 

its rare now , but its not uncommon 

It's not advisable to marry any blood relative from a common ancestor within 6 generations. The genetic damage for the offspring is irreversible. 

Edited by Detonator

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I came to know about this when I was working in bangalore, one of my colleague who was a hindu fron andhra married his cousin, i was shocked since I thought only muslims practiced. He also said that it was pretty common in his place
Compared to Andhra I think it is relatively uncommon but still practiced by some in Telangana too.
I know of only one such couple within my extended family from both my mom's and dad's side. They were second cousins and married in the 50's but still.
I knew an Andhra guy who married his elder sister's daughter and apparently that is common too.
I assume this will die down but it is still romanticized in telugu movies. Yuck.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Under_Score said:

Not just Hindus....Kashmiri Sikhs also practice cousin marriages. They are known as 'Bhapa ji's' 

Bhapa means big brother or father just like dada in Bengali or mota bhai in Gujarati. It's not a Punjabi word that's why other Punjabis tease the heck out of bhapas who use this infamous word to address their Dad or Papa.

 

Bhapas have nothing to do with Kashmiri Sikhs, Kashmiri Sikhs are Pandits just like Muslim Kashmiris.

 

Bhapas are originally from Peshawar and Rawalpindi and uprooted during partition. Later majority settled around Amritsar and Delhi. They are called refugee as well in a derogatory manner during a heated argument.

 

They belong to Arora Khatri clan, they are business oriented and have fairer skin complexion. Almost all Punjabis in Bollywood are Khatris except Deol's who are Jatt. Virat Kohli and Shikhar Dhawan too belong to this clan.

 

They do have cousin marriages, it has more to do with the fact that they have lived for centuries among Pashtuns and Hindkos.

 

Arora Khatris tend to be ambiguous when it comes to religion. It appears as if they practice both Sikhism and Hinduism at same time. For eg. Sonam Kapoor had wedding in a Gurudwara, Shikhar Dhawan too. Virat can claim to be a Sikh as well. They are not religious fanatics.

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40 minutes ago, nikred said:

Compared to Andhra I think it is relatively uncommon but still practiced by some in Telangana too.
I know of only one such couple within my extended family from both my mom's and dad's side. They were second cousins and married in the 50's but still.
I knew an Andhra guy who married his elder sister's daughter and apparently that is common too.
I assume this will die down but it is still romanticized in telugu movies. Yuck.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
 

Not movies, it all comes down to assets and money. Parents with no boy child think that their assets are being passed down to someone else's heir and their descendants. That's why this entire practice came to be. Marry within close relative range so that assets stay safe with them. 

It's practiced in West too, albeit long back. 

Edited by Detonator

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Even in Maharashtra there is a proud tradition of marrying Mama ki ladki :hysterical:,

 

 probably starts from Maharashtra  and goes all the way down to South. 

 

The explanation given is that the children of male siblings are considered Brothers/Sisters while children of a Brother and a Sister are not considered Brother/Sister so it's fair to marry among each other. 

Edited by rageaddict

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8 hours ago, Vancouver said:

Bhapa means big brother or father just like dada in Bengali or mota bhai in Gujarati. It's not a Punjabi word that's why other Punjabis tease the heck out of bhapas who use this infamous word to address their Dad or Papa.

 

Bhapas have nothing to do with Kashmiri Sikhs, Kashmiri Sikhs are Pandits just like Muslim Kashmiris.

 

Bhapas are originally from Peshawar and Rawalpindi and uprooted during partition. Later majority settled around Amritsar and Delhi. They are called refugee as well in a derogatory manner during a heated argument.

 

They belong to Arora Khatri clan, they are business oriented and have fairer skin complexion. Almost all Punjabis in Bollywood are Khatris except Deol's who are Jatt. Virat Kohli and Shikhar Dhawan too belong to this clan.

 

They do have cousin marriages, it has more to do with the fact that they have lived for centuries among Pashtuns and Hindkos.

 

Arora Khatris tend to be ambiguous when it comes to religion. It appears as if they practice both Sikhism and Hinduism at same time. For eg. Sonam Kapoor had wedding in a Gurudwara, Shikhar Dhawan too. Virat can claim to be a Sikh as well. They are not religious fanatics.

Welcome to ICF & thanks for the clarification, I'm not making fun of Bhapas...it's just that they practice cousin marriages and Jatt Sikhs are totally opposite, they don't marry into same surname leave alone cousins...also Bhapas have a Multani accent and their Punjabi sounds a bit different. In fact Bhapas are more religious when it comes to maintaining Sikhi roop. They deserve respect for that. 

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On 4/16/2019 at 6:17 AM, Gollum said:

@Alam_dar has anyone in your family (close as well as extended) been involved in cousin marriage? Asking because I heard it's common in the Pakistani community. Is it so or just among the poor? 

 

If you choose not to answer I have no issue.

It is common in India too.

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23 hours ago, Under_Score said:

Welcome to ICF & thanks for the clarification, I'm not making fun of Bhapas...it's just that they practice cousin marriages and Jatt Sikhs are totally opposite, they don't marry into same surname leave alone cousins...also Bhapas have a Multani accent and their Punjabi sounds a bit different. In fact Bhapas are more religious when it comes to maintaining Sikhi roop. They deserve respect for that. 

 

maternal side cousins belong to different gotras in our case .. 

paternal side cousins are brothers and sisters and belong to the same gotra ..

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I have one very twisted story to share on cousins.

I have a neighbour and his family is quite friendly to us.

He saw one of his second cousins for the first time when they were 21-22 as they grew up in different states and their families had very limited connect in that time.

He had got job posting in the city where the girl's(his 2nd cousin's) family lived. Although he lived in a different house there but used to visit girls family on weekends and shared a good repo with them.

They got attracted to each other and with the time they moved into a relationship. Which is nothing less than sinful in their community.

The family of both didn't know about this and thought they were bro-sis what wrong they could do however they started smelling something fishy when they saw that they used to keep photos of each other as whatsapp DPs and used to chat for unusually long hours in rooms alone.

Later one day the girl's brother saw that his phone had girl's pic as wallpaper. But at that time her brother probably didn't take it seriously but it strengthened their doubts.

Later when one of the marriage proposals the girl got, he got emotional with the thought of she leaving him forever so he made a fake fb account and messaged the boy on FB that she doesn't want to marry him and he should get lost.

The boy called family of the girl and showed them the message and withdrew the proposal. 

The family got furious, now all their suspicion was on him. They thrashed him badly and asked him to leave the city within a week. He came back to his city and lost his job. 

Still tried a lot to keep in touch with the girl at least but could not as they were in different cities and may be she was heavily watched then after a while I guess she too moved on and got married. 

He is now jobless and not able to move on.

One of his very close friend, who happened to be my classmate, was called by his parents and they told him all this and asked for his help in getting their son out of this. 

He was a normal boy don't know what made him do all this and he ruined his life. 

 

Edited by Number

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44 minutes ago, Number said:

I have one very twisted story to share on cousins.

I have a neighbour and his family is quite friendly to us.

He saw one of his second cousins for the first time when they were 21-22 as they grew up in different states and their families had very limited connect in that time.

He had got job posting in the city where the girl's(his 2nd cousin's) family lived. Although he lived in a different house there but used to visit girls family on weekends and shared a good repo with them.

They got attracted to each other and with the time they moved into a relationship. Which is nothing less than sinful in their community.

The family of both didn't know about this and thought they were bro-sis what wrong they could do however they started smelling something fishy when they saw that they used to keep photos of each other as whatsapp DPs and used to chat for unusually long hours in rooms alone.

Later one day the girl's brother saw that his phone had girl's pic as wallpaper. But at that time her brother probably didn't take it seriously but it strengthened their doubts.

Later when one of the marriage proposals the girl got, he got emotional with the thought of she leaving him forever so he made a fake fb account and messaged the boy on FB that she doesn't want to marry him and he should get lost.

The boy called family of the girl and showed them the message and withdrew the proposal. 

The family got furious, now all their suspicion was on him. They thrashed him badly and asked him to leave the city within a week. He came back to his city and lost his job. 

Still tried a lot to keep in touch with the girl at least but could not as they were in different cities and may be she was heavily watched then after a while I guess she too moved on and got married. 

He is now jobless and not able to move on.

One of his very close friend, who happened to be my classmate, was called by his parents and they told him all this and asked for his help in getting their son out of this. 

He was a normal boy don't know what made him do all this and he ruined his life. 

 

 

I don't know how such people could be helped. 

It breaks my heart to read about such broken hearts. 

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On 4/15/2019 at 4:06 PM, Alam_dar said:

 

 

In Britain, the population of Pakistanis is about 3%. But about 30% children with abnormalities in Britain belong to this 3% community of Pakistanis. Actually, problems are much more than this. There are children with low IQ levels due to cousin marriages, but still they are not detected as birth defects. 

 

Any stats to back your claim?

Edited by Aiden

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4 minutes ago, Aiden said:

Any stats to back your claim?

Here is it brother. 

<<<

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/4014743/Warning-over-births-to-first-cousin-marriages.html

 

Although British parents of Pakistani origin account for 3.4 per cent of all births nationwide, they also account for around 30 per cent of children born with recessive gene disorders.

>>>

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Some times it hurts me so much to see every where discussions about Beef ban and punishments and lynchings. 

 

I wished so much energy would have been used upon the REAL ISSUES like cousin marriage, then perhaps many hundred thousands of children would have escaped the birth defects, and their families would have lived better too.

 

Humanity suffers so much due to this. 

 

Even if people resist for total ban upon cousin marriage, but still Government could successfully put the condition of Genetic Test at least in case of cousin marriages. 

 

 

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On 4/18/2019 at 7:13 AM, Alam_dar said:

Some times it hurts me so much to see every where discussions about Beef ban and punishments and lynchings. 

 

I wished so much energy would have been used upon the REAL ISSUES like cousin marriage, then perhaps many hundred thousands of children would have escaped the birth defects, and their families would have lived better too.

 

Humanity suffers so much due to this. 

 

Even if people resist for total ban upon cousin marriage, but still Government could successfully put the condition of Genetic Test at least in case of cousin marriages. 

 

 

Real issue is terrorism. US and coalition forces, India, Israel are fighting the real isuse by attacking Afghanistan,Syria, Pakistan, Yemen to solve it. Developed countries have prirorities which are rightly set and worked upong. Strong nations should not and will not waste time on relatively very negligible issues.

 

It was more important to neutralize lakhs of terrorists in some countries than tackling issues like cousin marraige. Luckily countries opted for the former rather than go by what you think is priority.

 

The next issue on priority after destroying terrorism should be education.

Edited by Straight Drive

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Why do you want to control people ?

Why should others decide who marries whom?

 

Just educate people why it is not advisable and get on with your life.

 

Sab ki personsl life mein ghusne ke liye mauka kyun chahiye?

 

Educate people.

Make sure they are consenting adults and not bowing to social pressure.

 

If after education they don't care about genetic defects,these people will not be good parents even if they marry unrelated people . Only solution for them is sterilization.Will that be next?

 

Once third party starts deciding the personal choices of people,they don't stop at one or two. Then you will end up with a monster of another kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by beetle

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13 hours ago, beetle said:

Why do you want to control people ?

Why should others decide who marries whom?

 

Just educate people why it is not advisable and get on with your life.

 

Sab ki personsl life mein ghusne ke liye mauka kyun chahiye?

 

Educate people.

Make sure they are consenting adults and not bowing to social pressure.

 

If after education they don't care about genetic defects,these people will not be good parents even if they marry unrelated people . Only solution for them is sterilization.Will that be next?

 

Once third party starts deciding the personal choices of people,they don't stop at one or two. Then you will end up with a monster of another kind.

 

Unfortunately things are complicated. 

 

Counter argument is, Free choice is limited only when 3rd person is not effected. But in this case, child is the 3rd person who has no fault, but could still be directly effected by this decision.

 

In western countries again this issue of free choice came in case of incest with real sister. Since issue is complicated, thus West was also not able to come to any unanimous conclusion. Some accepted it in name of free choice of consenting adults like France, spain and Portugal. While others dont allow the pofficial marriage, but also give no punishment upon it. While others also punish upon it.

 

Laws regarding Incest

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

 

It is also suggested to not to punish the incest couple, but they should not be allowed to have kids with each other if genetic test shows dangers.

 

The minimum we could do is to start talking upon it and start educating the people. At moment, although people have heard it, but still they are not fully aware of the risks about children and how life becomes difficult for whole family. Films, Dramas, open talk shows could help a lot to bring awareness. 

 

It is not only about apparent mental disabilities, but also about low IQ levels in many cases.

 

In second step, government should get the data of how many children got disabilities due to cousin marriges, just like UK has all the data.

 

In 3rd step, genetic test should be made necessary for the cousin couples. Saudi Arabia and other Arab Muslim countries made it compulsory and as result several thouands of such cousin marriasges stopped while genetic test showed the dangers for the kids.

 

At momont, the educational work against it is not satisfactory. Thousands of kids have to suffer due to this even today. Open talk shows are not held upon it, actually avoided while some relugious communities could get offended from it.

 

In UK, people are protesting today while disabled children due to cousin marriages are huge burdon on their social medical health services, which runs upon their tax money.

 

 

 

Edited by Alam_dar

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