Will Rohit turn the page in the WC?

[vvvslaxman]

Kohli shouldn’t play Pakistan in final of ice tournament as he failed once lol

[zen]

17 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Based on this analysis Tendulkar should never play World Cup finals as he tends to suck in finals.  Rohit is the best Indian batsman against Australia in Indian history. 

 

14 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kohli shouldn’t play Pakistan in final of ice tournament as he failed once lol

 

there is no "analysis" here (strawman). It is simple data where a batsman tends to fail vs major teams in ICC/world events (where challenges are different than in bilaterals). And he has also been generally poor this yr leading up to the WC. Based on that the question is:

 

Quote

Therefore, will Rohit turn the page vs major teams in this world cup or will he continue to fade away? 

 

where would you put your money?

Edited April 22, 2019 by zen

[zen]

56 minutes ago, Nikola said:

sorry but got no time to debate with  you.

because the topic is below:

 

Quote

Therefore, will Rohit turn the page vs major teams in this world cup or will he continue to fade away? 

now whether BD should be included in stats 

[Stan AF]

Shabba dei.

 

Spamming nonsense over and over with the same idea over multiple threads and sections.

[zen]

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2007-2019	206	200	31	8010	264	47.39	9107	87.95	22	41	13	699	218	Profile
filtered	2013-2017	18	18	2	811	137	50.68	943	86.00	2	6	2	84	17

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Australia	2015-2015	1	1	0	34	34	34.00	48	70.83	0	0	0	1	2
v Bangladesh	2015-2017	2	2	1	260	137	260.00	255	101.96	2	0	0	29	4
v England	2013-2013	1	1	0	9	9	9.00	14	64.28	0	0	0	1	0
v Ireland	2015-2015	1	1	0	64	64	64.00	66	96.96	0	1	0	3	3
v Pakistan	2013-2017	4	4	0	124	91	31.00	174	71.26	0	1	1	11	2
v South Africa	2013-2017	3	3	0	77	65	25.66	107	71.96	0	1	1	9	2
v Sri Lanka	2013-2017	2	2	0	111	78	55.50	129	86.04	0	1	0	10	3
v U.A.E.	2015-2015	1	1	1	57	57*	-	55	103.63	0	1	0	10	1
v West Indies	2013-2015	2	2	0	59	52	29.50	74	79.72	0	1	0	8	0
v Zimbabwe	2015-2015	1	1	0	16	16	16.00	21	76.19	0	0	0	2	0

 

 

So in 18 games, Rohit has only done well against BD and SL, AFG can replace Ireland and UAE   .... While having a sub 35 avg against every other side! 

 

 

Apart from BD and SL, has played more than 2 games vs Pak, WI and SA, where:

 

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2007-2019	206	200	31	8010	264	47.39	9107	87.95	22	41	13	699	218	Profile
filtered	2013-2017	9	9	0	260	91	28.88	355	73.23	0	3	2	28	4

 

 

Could be a serious concern for Ind if he does not pull up his socks!

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

1 match sample against Australia? What a retarded analysis.

[zen]

38 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

1 match sample against Australia? What a retarded analysis.

Analysis?  .... and everyone knows ICC events are not bilaterals and presents different challenges where the sample size is 13 games vs major teams, the most .... but good to see rohit fanboys awaken from their moronic dream world  

[vvvslaxman]

36 minutes ago, zen said:

Analysis?  .... and everyone knows ICC events are not bilaterals and presents different challenges where the sample size is 13 games vs major teams, the most .... but good to see rohit fanboys awaken from their moronic dream world  

Stop with nonsense In ICC events Cummins will still be Cummins he won’t become Cummins x 10. Major teams you don’t get to decide who is major who is minor. Kaput made 175 against minor team we lost to BD in 2007 to a minor team got thrashed by Srilaknka twice in 1996 to the then minor team. Kohli also failed against oz in ct 2015 and 2011 Does that mean he shouldn’t play against OZ why do you club CT and World Cup just to prove a point. World Cup is different.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Stop with nonsense In ICC events Cummins will still be Cummins he won’t become Cummins x 10. Major teams you don’t get to decide who is major who is minor. Kaput made 175 against minor team we lost to BD in 2007 to a minor team got thrashed by Srilaknka twice in 1996 to the then minor team. Kohli also failed against oz in ct 2015 and 2011 Does that mean he shouldn’t play against OZ why do you club CT and World Cup just to prove a point. World Cup is different.

Strawman arguments to protect your favorite player can only work on forums for you as you would be laughed out of rooms. Don't test your luck too much 

 

It is common sense who the major contenders for the world cup are, and so is the fact that in a tourney upsets can happen (that does not change the fact about major teams). And players are judged based on how they are able to adjust while playing different oppositions on different grounds under different circumstances.

 

For Rohit, he basically has the lowest avg and SR among those who have played 13 games:

 

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
S Dhawan	2013-2017	13	13	1	919	137	76.58	933	98.49	4	4	0	102	11
V Kohli	2013-2017	13	13	4	525	107	58.33	602	87.20	1	3	1	46	6
MS Dhoni	2013-2017	13	8	1	240	65	34.28	243	98.76	0	2	1	20	6
RG Sharma	2013-2017	13	13	0	414	91	31.84	546	75.82	0	4	2	40	9

 

 

He has been in relatively poor form in the lead up to the world cup this yr. BD, SL, and AFG have a slim chance of moving ahead in general, so there is a concern on Rohit's ability to adjust to playing full strength major sides in a non-bilateral type of format .... And this does not mean that you don't have to do well vs BD, SL and AFG or those teams cannot win on their day  

 

[vvvslaxman]

No it is not straw man I am exposing your ignorant filters why do you think Kohli should play against Australia in World Cup given that he will fail against them for sure going by your filter prediction. Post next time without screenshots I don’t care what you post with million filters just debate without the pointless filters

[vvvslaxman]

All those who ho failed against a specific team in specific events are certain to fail against them in the same specific event lol so we should pack the squad with 30 players and play only those who do well against specific team in a specific event. I am the one who makes straw man argument hahaha keep your jokes flowing

[Nikola]

Let me filter some op's worldcup stats now.

 

 

Last half tells everything about it.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Nikola

[zen]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

No it is not straw man I am exposing your ignorant filters why do you think Kohli should play against Australia in World Cup given that he will fail against them for sure going by your filter prediction. Post next time without screenshots I don’t care what you post with million filters just debate without the pointless filters

Buddy, everyone understands the game of attacking filters for data that does not work  and then trying to attack the messenger .... unless you are naive enough to believe in what you write .... the data clearly shows that for e.g. Dhawan and Kohli (the other top order batsmen) average 77 and 58 respectively where Rohit averages 32 (apples to apples is right there)  .... Additionally, data is also available for other players. Rohit is in the lower half  

 

Another factor would be the current form as if a player did well in the past, it does not mean he will automatically do well even if he is in bad form or past his best, and vice versa. Therefore, I have posted the current year's numbers as well, along with watching Rohit bat 

 

Unless Rohit dramatically pulls up his socks, it is unlikely that he is going to touch an avg of 40 vs. major teams, which Ind will have to beat to go to the next level (Most teams are expected to beat BD, SL and AFG for e.g.).  If he does well like a key batsman should (avg 50 or more) vs major teams, I will be happy    

 

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, zen said:

Buddy, everyone understands the game of attacking filters for data that does not work  and then trying to attack the messenger .... unless you are naive enough to believe in what you write .... the data clearly shows that for e.g. Dhawan and Kohli (the other top order batsmen) average 77 and 58 respectively where Rohit averages 32 (apples to apples is right there)  .... Additionally, data is also available for other players. Rohit is in the lower half  

 

Another factor would be the current form as if a player did well in the past, it does not mean he will automatically do well even if he is in bad form or past his best, and vice versa. Therefore, I have posted the current year's numbers as well, along with watching Rohit bat 

 

Unless Rohit dramatically pulls up his socks, it is unlikely that he is going to touch an avg of 40 vs. major teams, which Ind will have to beat to go to the next level (Most teams are expected to beat BD, SL and AFG for e.g.).  If he does well like a key batsman should (avg 50 or more) vs major teams, I will be happy    

 

You don't drop players based on 4 month form. Talking about current form in terms of Economy rate world's worst bowling attack right now England. For the year 2019  in 13 matches England is conceding 7.09 runs per over.  I Presume they should suck balls in the world cup. IN the last 2 years as well England has the worst bowling attack. Why do you keep considering them as a "major nation" in terms of bowling. If anything it is harder to score against Afghanistan than England. In the last 2 years Australia is conceding 5.61 runs per over on an average. 4th worst behind ENgland/SL/Windies. Why do you think it is hard to score runs against them?  Stop creating arbitrary "major teams" "minor teams" . You can't suck against any team.  

[zen]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

12 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

You don't drop players based on 4 month form. Talking about current form in terms of Economy rate world's worst bowling attack right now England. For the year 2019  in 13 matches England is conceding 7.09 runs per over.  I Presume they should suck balls in the world cup. IN the last 2 years as well England has the worst bowling attack. Why do you keep considering them as a "major nation" in terms of bowling. If anything it is harder to score against Afghanistan than England. In the last 2 years Australia is conceding 5.61 runs per over on an average. 4th worst behind ENgland/SL/Windies. Why do you think it is hard to score runs against them?  Stop creating arbitrary "major teams" "minor teams" .  

a) Rohit is already in the squad so the topic is - "Therefore, will Rohit turn the page vs major teams in this world cup or will he continue to fade away?" 

 

b) Against good batting side, one has to bat well too. So the batsmen should avg higher   

 

c) The basket consists of 7 teams. Therefore, for a key player, his overall record should be good even though he might not do well vs. x team for e.g. BD is a minnow. Rohit case is more like he did well against only one team but not vs. rest relatively. Performance is judged vs. this basket 

 

I have not removed BD because Rohit has done well against it. But because if you see any of my stats, you are not likely to find minnow teams like BD and Zim .... In short, the thread is about performance vs. the selected teams, which play in most WCs and are not considered as minnows. Every team has either won the tourney or entered the final including SA and NZ, which have won CT. In the future, I may reduce basket size further but for now, will stick with it 

 

Quote

You can't suck against any team

Exactly, and Rohit has a relaively poor record against 7 teams in the basket  

 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Your sample size is no more than 2 or 3 matches. Only against Pakistan he has played 4 matches. Had success in one match. He has played 15 matches against Pakistan. His average is 44 against them. But you use the 4 matches he played in the "special event".

 

He has played 36 matches against Australia. But you use that 1 match sample from the world cup.

His career average against Austarlia is 61.87 at a strike rate of 95.

 

Against South africa he has played 3 matches in the ICC tournament. Did well in one match. Failed in 2 matches. That is the only team against which he has a poor ODI record besides HOnkong. He averages 28. 

 

Against New zealand he hasn't played even a single game.

 

Against West Indies he has played 2 ICC tournaments. Did well in one match. His career record against West Indies is 64.15 in 26 matches. So why do you use a 1 match sample to prove your point.

 

Let me explain in a different way how your theory holds no water. 

 

Kohli in ICC events vs Australia  average 12.5 Failed 2 out of 2times

 

KOhli in ICC evnets vs Pakistan 6 matches  - 16, 9, 22*, 107, 81, 5 - That is only 2 out of 6 times success rate. 

 

Kohli in ICC events vs Engalnd   8 and 43 .  1 out of 2 times success.

 

Kohli has never played vs NZ like Rohit

 

Why do you think he will do well in the ICC tournament against these teams.

 

 

 

 

[zen]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Your sample size is no more than 2 or 3 matches. Only against Pakistan he has played 4 matches. Had success in one match. He has played 15 matches against Pakistan. His average is 44 against them. But you use the 4 matches he played in the "special event".

 

He has played 36 matches against Australia. But you use that 1 match sample from the world cup.

His career average against Austarlia is 61.87 at a strike rate of 95.

 

Against South africa he has played 3 matches in the ICC tournament. Did well in one match. Failed in 2 matches. That is the only team against which he has a poor ODI record besides HOnkong. He averages 28. 

 

Against New zealand he hasn't played even a single game.

 

Against West Indies he has played 2 ICC tournaments. Did well in one match. His career record against West Indies is 64.15 in 26 matches. So why do you use a 1 match sample to prove your point.

 

 

That is your poor understanding of my "theory" (there is no theory here as it is simply data) .... and ignores the difference b/w bilaterals and ICC events, see below: 

 

 

Quote

 

et me explain in a different way how your theory holds no water. 

 

Kohli in ICC events vs Australia  average 12.5 Failed 2 out of 2times

 

KOhli in ICC evnets vs Pakistan 6 matches  - 16, 9, 22*, 107, 81, 5 - That is only 2 out of 6 times success rate. 

 

Kohli in ICC events vs Engalnd   8 and 43 .  1 out of 2 times success.

 

Kohli has never played vs NZ like Rohit

 

Why do you think he will do well in the ICC tournament against these teams.

 

 

Irrelevant as the above misses everything that I explained. The players are judged based on the major teams in the baskets (not individual teams) as one of the challenges of ICC tourneys is to play different teams (unlike in bilaterals) which expected to be at full strength and also introduce new ideas. You are quoting Rohit's bilateral records 

 

Therefore, it is YOU who is bringing in individual teams per your misunderstanding. And the case is of Rohit is not doing well vs. this basket of major teams. Where Kohli averages 58, while Dhawan averages 77 vs. the basket 

 

As usual, you are barking at the wrong tree (and creating strawman w/o probably even realizing it). And as I have said, you should NOT be talking data/stats as the school that you studied in, I would be its principal 

 

Again, among those who played the same amount of games:

 

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Trophy Benson & Hedges World Championship of Cricket  or ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or MRF World Series (Nehru Cup)  or World Cup

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
S Dhawan	2013-2017	13	13	1	919	137	76.58	933	98.49	4	4	0	102	11
V Kohli	2013-2017	13	13	4	525	107	58.33	602	87.20	1	3	1	46	6
MS Dhoni	2013-2017	13	8	1	240	65	34.28	243	98.76	0	2	1	20	6
RG Sharma	2013-2017	13	13	0	414	91	31.84	546	75.82	0	4	2	40	9

 

[vvvslaxman]

You are not answering my question. I am going even at a granular level. Just because he scores 150 against South Africa doesn't mean he will do well against Australia. They are two different teams. There is no basket in cricket. You are not going to face South AFrica, Australia, NEw zealand all the teams in the same match. So stop with this BASKET nonsense. You play one team at a time. You cannot use basket to hide the weak numbers of Kohli against Australia in the ICC tournament.  Come up with that any other excuse you have other than this BASKET bullshit. lol.

 

[vvvslaxman]

There is one important name is missing in this list. World cup final performances. Even Kulasekara is ahead of him. Clue  @Rasgulla

 

[zen]

 

 

 

 

 

4

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

You are not answering my question. I am going even at a granular level. Just because he scores 150 against South Africa doesn't mean he will do well against Australia. They are two different teams. There is no basket in cricket. You are not going to face South AFrica, Australia, NEw zealand all the teams in the same match. So stop with this BASKET nonsense. You play one team at a time. You cannot use basket to hide the weak numbers of Kohli against Australia in the ICC tournament.  Come up with that any other excuse you have other than this BASKET bullshit. lol.

Players are chosen to do well more often than not (as there are bound to be some failures). The case of Rohit is that he has been a failure more often than not relatively speaking vs major teams   

 

And I do not even think you understand what "basket" implies (as I see some twisted or strawman type of version here)