Which India player least deserves his WC 2019 spot?

[ExtremeBrainfade]

All cricketing eyes are now on the World Cup and the nerves are starting to fray.  Over the course of the next several weeks, many questions will be answered by the teams and their players.  One of those big questions is the composition of the Indian squad.  This is the team that plays the most cricket and for whom the most data are available.  Over the last year or two, many questions have been raised about age, floor, ceiling, all-round skills, ability to hold fort at #4, finishing ability, team balance, wicket-keeping, wrist vs finger spin, suitability for ODI vs T20 format, and of course, recent form.  We've had everybody and their uncle chime in on why they are best suited for #4 (from Rayudu to Pujara to Rahane) or for #4 seamer slot (Ishant Sharma, Umesh Yadav), spinner (Ashwin).  Now that all possible data are in, let's line-up the suspects and see who does not belong.  I hope that every one of these guys makes me eat crow with stellar performances and bring the WC back to India, but for now, let's vote.  After you vote, reply to the thread with your reasoning and who should be the replacement.

 

In no particular order:

(1) Vijay Shankar:  Most recent entrant to the all-rounder and #4 sweepstakes, VS has been impressive in flashes.  Some days, he looks like a million bucks with bat and on others, like a cat on a hot tin roof.  Seems technically compact enough, has a little bit of power and most times, a calm head (but Nidahas ...?).  He is a decent fielder, too.  Now, his bowling - is it really worth discussing?  Not too many opportunities to showcase it and there is no argument to be made for English conditions, because the pitches are roads and the weather will be hot and trundlers are fodder. Current form looks spotty.  This selection is very interesting.  

 

(2) Dinesh Karthik:  15 years of DK.  1 big moment. In a T20 match.  Against Bangladesh.  The man has a lot of skills, but somehow they have not come together consistently.  Should he get another chance in a big tourney like this?

 

(3) Ravindra Jadeja:  I am admittedly a huge fan of Sir, mainly because of how electric he is on the field and his ever-high effort levels.  If we had to pick a specialist fielder, he is the guy.  Or a test bowler.  But bowling 10 overs of finger spin on flat English pitches is suspect and he is not really a finisher with a bat.  What is his role?  

 

(4) K L Rahul:  I have been watching cricket for 40 years and can't remember anyone as enigmatic as KLR.  A prodigal son.  He was oft-injured early in his career and thus never established himself, and when he got a chance in 2018-19, has not impressed consistently.  But, on his day, he can be completely dominant and make batting look like a cakewalk.  And he had some of those days in the IPL.  But those days are few and far between, and often his technical weaknesses against the incoming ball rear their ugly head before he settles..  Moreover, what is his role in an LOI context?  Is he an opener?  A #4?    

 

(5) Kedar Jadhav:  Again, I am a huge fan of this guy, because he is one of the grittiest over-achievers.  He was selected because of his domination of domestic cricket and made a big impact early on.  His batting, while not pretty, is great to watch.  He works the field, keeps things moving and can hit when needed.  And not to forget his horizontal off-spin.  But a few things work against him:  he often disappears on the batting front; he is at-best a mediocre fielder; he is often injured.  If he recovers from his most recent injury, how much longer before the next one?

 

(6) M S Dhoni:  Now, for some controversy.  This man is an undisputed legend of the ODI game.  The best keeper to ever don the gloves in ODIs.  One of the most astute ODI minds.  And on an on we can go.  Also add IPL 2019 superstar.  But, is his IPL form deceptive?  Can he keep it up against the best attacks in the world?  Will his body hold up in a 50-over setting over several weeks?  Should we have picked a younger 'keeper instead?

 

(7) Rohit Sharma: Another legend of the ODI game.  But his recent form has been K L Rahul-esque.  He is a good catcher, but his overall fitness seems suspect.  He takes a long time to settle in and if he gets out like he has recently after facing 40-50 balls, it puts pressure on the guys coming later.  Should we have picked a more in-form young bat instead?

 

(8) Yuz Chahal:  Wristspinners are all the rage these days and his recent form (yeah, it's the IPL, but still ..) has been decent.  But he is a liability on the field and can't bat too well.  Would we have been better off picking a younger wristie like Gopal or is Yuz's experience too valuable?  

 

(9) Other:  Kuldeep?  Bhuvneshwar?  Other?

 

 

[ExtremeBrainfade]

I went with Dinesh Karthik.  I would instead have picked Shubman Gill or Mayank Agarwal.  K L Rahul could be the reserve keeper.  

 

Vijay Shankar and Kedar Jadhav were a close 2nd and 3rd on my list. 

[vvvslaxman]

DK vs Jaddu close contest But we need a backup keeper most likely he will miss out the entire World Cup. No issue with others. Necessary evils.

[vvvslaxman]

It is dangerous to play against any side with just 5 bowlers and 6 others who can’t bowl to save their lives

[maniac]

Shankar and Jadeja

 

DK a lot of us would have been ok with his selection had it not come down to DK vs Pant because Dk in recent times has done decently enough in the finisher role.

 

Rest all pick themselves.

 

 

 

 

[I6MTW]

36 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

It is dangerous to play against any side with just 5 bowlers and 6 others who can’t bowl to save their lives

The bigger issue is we have only 6-7 batsmen, and the rest can't bat to save their lives.

[Laaloo]

Pandey for Jadeja

Pant for DK

Edited May 13, 2019 by Laaloo

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

The bigger issue is we have only 6-7 batsmen, and the rest can't bat to save their lives.

Yes Teams like England try to include 7th bowling option like Denly That is excluding Roots bowling. We have batsmen who can’t bowl and bowlers who can’t bat. Jadhav and Shankar are very relevant because of their ability to share a few overs. 

[I6MTW]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Yes Teams like England try to include 7th bowling option like Denly That is excluding Roots bowling. We have batsmen who can’t bowl and bowlers who can’t bat. Jadhav and Shankar are very relevant because of their ability to share a few overs. 

England has this advantage over other teams, because of the sheer batting depth. Their tail can add a 100 runs to the score, if they are 200-6 or 7. Even if they play Archer in the team in the place of someone, he can also bat, and his bowling alone can win them matches, massively strengthens all dimensions of their side. England won't have to worry about conceding 350 so much.

[maniac]

49 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Pandey for Jadeja

Pant for DK

Please let us not get fooled by a few IPL knocks. Remember Rayudu’s purple patch last year 

[sandeep]

Ravindra Jadeja.  He's an automatic starter in tests for me, but not good enough for the ODI squad.  Unless its an Asian wicket with plenty of grip, his bowling is not effective due to the 4 outfielder rule.  And his batting is, at best, adequate for #8.  No higher.  

 

That is a slot that should have gone to either a better bowler, or a better allround option.  It is a damning indictment of the current selectors and the team management, that they have not able to identify and develop a player like K Goutham, Shreyas Gopal, Jalaj Saxena etc from the Indian domestic ranks.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

See if ur in probable ur deserving ...few places wud be always debatable by everyone

I wud pick jaddu who I wudnt like to see in squad but undeserving is not the word.....he is not a liability . Its a long tournament and if pitches start to wear down and turn ....jadeja can come in play . 

[zen]

If I could, a lot of guys in the squad would be replaced. Without getting into who is deserving or not, I will shortlist to 5 spots and then pick one who should be replaced: 

 

• Shankar. Theoretically, he is a good pick. However, practically, can't bat as per expectations and gets impacted by pressure esp. when chasing. Probably good enough to bowl 2-3 overs. Is a good fielder though. In a 100 overs game, he may bat for 5-6 overs for 20-30 runs and bowl 2-3 overs, which reduces his usefulness tremendously esp. for someone expected to bat higher and also play a role with the ball
• Jadeja. Again a good pick on paper but practically may not add much value. A better bowler and fielder than Shankar. Batting contributions could be on par with Shankar, who is making Jadeja look better. Can serve as a backup spinner or as the 5th bowler who can bat at #7
• DK. Could be more useful with the bat than Shankar or Jadeja if played in the top 7, but there are other good options that could have been "originally" considered. Theoretically, a good pick for a reserve keeper if seeking "experienced" players as in a long tournament DK and Dhoni can be rotated   
• Rohit. Has a tendency to mess up the powerplays. Could get "owned" by quality swing bowlers. His conversion rate to big scores is not acceptable for someone who plays at such a low SR
• Dhoni. Past his best. Not a player that he was when facing quality bowling and fielding sides 

 

It could be suicidal to include all 3 of Shankar, Rohit, and Dhoni in the playing 11. Therefore will seek to replace Shankar as Rohit and Dhoni are relatively more useful. DK can be rotated with Dhoni, while Jadeja would serve as the backup spinner or as the 5th bowler who can bat at #7 (though practically his usefulness could be limited).  Now, the next question is who should be Shankar's replacement: 

 

• A batsman. Someone like Pant can add firepower to the 11. He can be used to leverage on the powerplays or lower down in the slog overs. Also is an impact player who can win a game on his own. The Pandya-Pant combination can be deadly (and mouthwatering to watch when on fire)  
• A wrist/mystery spinner. These type of spinners rely on confidence. Kuldeep or Chahal can go for runs on good batting wickets to lose confidence. Therefore, someone like a Gopal or Chahar could serve as an option if in the squad. Unfortunately, the team has Jadeja and per premise of the thread, we can only replace one 
• A pace bowler. Ideally, you would want a pace bowler like Saini in the squad to strengthen the pace attack, which is a key strength 

 

The key replacement options for Shankar are Pant and Saini, who should both have been in the squad. Considering that the pace bowlers may need to get rotated and, in some matches, we may need to play 3 "quicks", I am going with Saini 

Edited May 13, 2019 by zen

[zen]

PS with one replacement, below is how the squad would look (in bracket are better options that could have been "originally" considered): 

 

• Batsmen: Rohit (Pant/Shaw/Agarwal), Dhawan, Kohli, KL, Pandya, and Jadhav
• WKs: Dhoni and DK (Pant)
• Spinners: Kuldeep, Chahal, and Jadeja (Gopal/Chahar)
• Pacers: Bumrah, Shami, Saini, and Bhuvi

[maniac]

1 hour ago, zen said:

PS with one replacement, below is how the squad would look (in bracket are better options that could have been "originally" considered): 

 

• Batsmen: Rohit (Pant/Shaw/Agarwal), Dhawan, Kohli, KL, Pandya, and Jadhav
• WKs: Dhoni and DK (Pant)
• Spinners: Kuldeep, Chahal, and Jadeja (Gopal/Chahar)
• Pacers: Bumrah, Shami, Saini, and Bhuvi

You want to replace a guy who has 3 200s in odi games and most 180+ scores ever  in a WC ?  

[Gollum]

Karthik and Jaddu cos both have sucked for many years esp the former, Jaddu at least had a major role in CT 2013. Shankar is a newbie, may still surprise us and I don't like people downplaying him based on performances in a neech tournament like IPL. 

 

I am sure DK is the worst ever Indian ODI player with so many chances. 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

You want to replace a guy who has 3 200s in odi games and most 180+ scores ever  in a WC ?  

I do not go by past records .... I look at current capabilities and I am forward looking 

[Khota]

Shankar.

[Lannister]

Dhoni's stooge. Jadeja. 

[Real McCoy]

The legendary Sir Jaddu. He runs out mathcwinners - Hardik in 2017, Watson in ipl finals. his bowling is cannon fodder in english conditions. his batting is fluke. they might have picked him as a fielding substitute. his fielding is the only thing he doesnt suck at