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England has gems like Buttler & Bairstow as wicketkeepers whereas we are stuck with 40 year old Dhoni

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2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You are about 20 months late with this genius insight.

Dhoni was huffing and puffing on these same pitches last year during our tour of England where these guys Buttler and Bairstow are hitting match winning centuries at ease :hysterical:

Edited by SecondSlip

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9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

You can cry for some time and then laugh :)  This was decided in 2015 world cup. They reap what they sow. If they get kicked out badly they will do some shake ups.

Bhai its a crappy sport where at any time there are hardly 3-4 quality teams that are genuine contenders for the WC.  If India makes the semi-final and loses - like 2015 - most will be satisfied.  Nobody will complain that this team was given the all-time best ever bowling attack, had plenty of batsmen in the team and on the bench, and failed to deliver better results.  

 

We are like this only.  

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Also England have evolved so much. They have a pool of 9-10 140+ bowlers. Even their allrounders like Stokes hit 140+ with ease. Someone like Sam Curran and Willey who are little slower can still swing in and bowl late 130s and they all bat.

 

Forget Bairstow and Butler. They have keepers like Billings and Duckett :giggle: who can still give it a mighty thump.

 

Same with Australia they have a pool of 140+ bowlers and some fantastic strikers of the ball. They are behind us in the keeping department though even though I think Handscombe can solve that problem if he keeps full time.

 

In the entire IPL not a single newbie Indian batsman looked like he can take on quality pace bowling or can hit the long ball.

 

the good bowlers cannot bat and the good batsman cannot bowl or field.

 

No wonder Shankar looks that attractive in terms of being a pick.

 

Yes Pant is tremendous but apart from him who else? Kishan is still a work in progress but has tremendous potential though.

 

None of the 140+ bowlers can field or hold the bat to save their lives.

 

Among spinners Gopal might be the only bowler who can bat a bit.

 

No wonder we are fascinated by hacks like Krunal Pandya,Jadeja,Krishnappa gowtham etc.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Dhoni's job = Proxy captaincy. That's it. Kohli can't act on his own. He will need the services of others. Otherwise like RCB we will finish at the bottom.

Not making Final = bottom.  Which team really deserves to play in the WC final ahead of us?  Its poor team leadership and management if we don't make the final.  Nothing else.  30 years of being a fan, I can't ever remember the bowling unit being this good.

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5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Not making Final = bottom.  Which team really deserves to play in the WC final ahead of us?  Its poor team leadership and management if we don't make the final.  Nothing else.  30 years of being a fan, I can't ever remember the bowling unit being this good.

India is the top 2-3 in the world and even with this team the expectation is to sleep walk into the semis atleast.

 

However given the amount of talent available, given how exciting the u-19 team has been in the last few years we shouldn’t be searching  for specific positions, we should have 2-3 backups for every position out there.

 

India looks like a top 3 team because rest of the teams are weak not because we look formidable.

 

Indian team in last years u-19 wc was must watch television. Indian senior team currently just like their favorite motto is a laborious “process” which is on autopilot.

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49 minutes ago, maniac said:

India is the top 2-3 in the world and even with this team the expectation is to sleep walk into the semis atleast.

 

However given the amount of talent available, given how exciting the u-19 team has been in the last few years we shouldn’t be searching  for specific positions, we should have 2-3 backups for every position out there.

 

India looks like a top 3 team because rest of the teams are weak not because we look formidable.

 

Indian team in last years u-19 wc was must watch television. Indian senior team currently just like their favorite motto is a laborious “process” which is on autopilot.

India lacks a surprising element. All these guys have been playing for years. Every team knows their weaknesses, strengths by now. Even a rock can set field for these guys.

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Not making Final = bottom.  Which team really deserves to play in the WC final ahead of us?  Its poor team leadership and management if we don't make the final.  Nothing else.  30 years of being a fan, I can't ever remember the bowling unit being this good.

Actually India's second string bowling can be better than many of our past bowling line ups. With Gopal, Rahul Chahar, Saini, Khaleel. We are becoming a strong bowling force. But gradually we are becoming a poorer fielding side, also a side with no batting depth. 

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Even if Dhoni is ousted, England's reserve players' pool is way ahead of India's. You will see definite changes if England wont go on to win wc.. They will move on from the weak links to give opportunity to new players unlike our team who were happy with SF exit last time with Dhoni's PR circulating fake pics of him crying.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

Even if Dhoni is ousted, England's reserve players' pool is way ahead of India's. You will see definite changes if England wont go on to wc.. They will move on from the weak links to give opportunity to new players unlike our team who were happy with SF exit last time with Dhoni's PR circulating fake pics of him crying.

I am not sure England did exactly go in the perfect direction. Their bowling is the worst in the world at this point. They rely on racking up big scores on roads. 

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39 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

Even if Dhoni is ousted, England's reserve players' pool is way ahead of India's. You will see definite changes if England wont go on to wc.. They will move on from the weak links to give opportunity to new players unlike our team who were happy with SF exit last time with Dhoni's PR circulating fake pics of him crying.

I disagree.  Indian player pool is fantastic and deep AF.  The team is not using its players properly.  

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I disagree.  Indian player pool is fantastic and deep AF.  The team is not using its players properly.  

Apart from Pant, I don't think there is anyone who can be a potential match.

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6 hours ago, zen said:

The problem is that no one forced Ind to select the squad it did! 

It is not important whether they were forced or not when you do not have options to replace the incumbent WK.  People harping about Bairstaw and Butler usually forget that they are not rookies  They both are closing on their 30s, in high 20s and are at their peak.  They both debuted in 2011 and 2012 respectively.  And people say bring in Pant, Kishan etc who are barely 21, 20 respectively without any prior experience lacking any perspective.  Suppose we bring Pant in, he performs poorly and kicked out of WC, what then.  What if he is dropped and forgotten after that? What it is going to do to the psych of a 21 year old who has barely played 5 ODIs at this point?  It is injustice to him as well to bring him in such a big tournament with no preparation or experience.  Big tournaments are for experienced players, not rookies.   Rookies does mean just young, but young in experience. Like Kohli was young around 22 in 2011 WC but he was experienced enough, had enough ODI games and runs under his belt after debuting in 2008 and he had legends like SRT, Viru, GG, Yuvraj there.

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11 hours ago, putrevus said:

Dhoni was never good even in his prime in chasing big targets.Now Dhoni is big big liability in chasing big targets.He simply cannot do it.

 

Karthik is another useless fellow, I have no idea why the moron MSK selected Karthik over Pant.

ya never blame kohli...... have you read news paper it was kohli who prefer karthik over pant. Talk about being in dellusion.

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8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I am not sure England did exactly go in the perfect direction. Their bowling is the worst in the world at this point. They rely on racking up big scores on roads. 

I reckon a bowling attack of Woakes, Archer, Plunkett, Rashid, Moeen, Stokes (+Root) is a better than Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, New Zealand and West Indies have at least (from the WC).

Edited by Stumped

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Our keeper has a strike rate of 74 in last 12 months!! Even in 90s a number 6/7 batsman would not have survived with these strike rates but here we have a number of our ex-legends rooting for Dhoni because he hits a few sixes in IPL.

 

He is the only keeper not have scored a ODI 100 in last 2 years, he shares that honour with Sarfaraz the great.

Edited by ShoonyaSifar

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5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

It is injustice to him as well to bring him in such a big tournament with no preparation or experience.  Big tournaments are for experienced players, not rookies.   Rookies does mean just young, but young in experience. Like Kohli was young around 22 in 2011 WC but he was experienced enough, had enough ODI games and runs under his belt

And that's the point.  There was no reason to deny giving Rishabh 10-15 ODIs over the last 15 months.  The team intentionally planned it in such a way that they can make this precise excuse of 'experience' for the WC.  Its quite shameless and obvious really.  

 

Instead of building a batting unit that can consistently score 360, they have been content to score 315-30, and let the bowlers fight it out.  If not, blame the 'middle order' for not scoring 9 runs per over, while the top order eats 70% of the balls, scoring about 50-60% of the runs.  

 

Its a good gig - all 3 top order batsmen make the most $$$ due to their gaudy individual stats and milestones.  Who cares if the Indian team, in spite of having some of the best batsmen in the world, averages about 50 runs per ODI than the best in class.  

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7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

And that's the point.  There was no reason to deny giving Rishabh 10-15 ODIs over the last 15 months.  The team intentionally planned it in such a way that they can make this precise excuse of 'experience' for the WC.  Its quite shameless and obvious really.  

 

Instead of building a batting unit that can consistently score 360, they have been content to score 315-30, and let the bowlers fight it out.  If not, blame the 'middle order' for not scoring 9 runs per over, while the top order eats 70% of the balls, scoring about 50-60% of the runs.  

 

Its a good gig - all 3 top order batsmen make the most $$$ due to their gaudy individual stats and milestones.  Who cares if the Indian team, in spite of having some of the best batsmen in the world, averages about 50 runs per ODI than the best in class.  

Pant should have played every LOI game for India after his grand success in IPL 2018.

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4 hours ago, raki05 said:

ya never blame kohli...... have you read news paper it was kohli who prefer karthik over pant. Talk about being in dellusion.

That person will never ever blame Kohli, no matter how badly he does. Sometimes I think that the poster is Anushka Sharma herself :giggle:

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4 hours ago, raki05 said:

ya never blame kohli...... have you read news paper it was kohli who prefer karthik over pant. Talk about being in dellusion.

Who is the selector.Kohli should never have any say in selections as he has proved  again and again he stinks in team selection.

 

Kohli if he demands say in selection should be sacked from it. I am not in any delusion, Kohli is not my relative or I am going to get anything from him.

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After CT 2017 India kept winning most series, I think only England series and latest Australian series were only losses. Bowling covered for most deficiencies.That coupled with lack of batting talent in domestic cricket and Kohli's unwillingness to try youngsters has led to this debacle.

 

After seeing England score 358 without even breaking a sweat and without their most potent finisher, India is so far behind in actual talent.

 

Yes Bairstow and Butlers are no spring chickens but the batting surplus England has is ridicolous.Where are our domestic players who have been playing in IPL for 4 or 5 seasons who are capable of hitting 50 ball 100s??? or 25 ball fifties.

 

Don't include Pant and Pandya, they are already there.Some people are arguing it is the mindset of top three. I don't think India has won any match by either scoring 300 plus when batting first or chasing 300 plus when they lose early wickets.

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3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Pant should have played every LOI game for India after his grand success in IPL 2018.

And he wasn't just an IPL flash in the pan.  He put up an absolute monster of a Ranji season ahead of that.  In an Indian ODI team that has a severe deficit of six-hitting ability between Rohit and Pandya, his keeping ability or inexperience didn't matter.  He could play as a pure batsman.  In fact, the right call would be to unleash a fearless young tyro like him, at the top of the order, with field restrictions.  That's what South Africa did, with QdK.   But again, top order ODI batting slot is worth millions of dollars in endorsement value.  And is like a feudal jaagir.  Who cares whats best for the team.  

 

But if Rishabh Pant and/or KLPD Rahul were given even a handful of chances opening the batting, and if they had clicked - then what?  Would Virat and Rohit agree to slide down the order and give up the chances to rack up meaningless centuries?  I don't question Dhawan as much, because the guy has demonstrated with his batting, that he is relatively selfless.  

 

Instead, let's shunt the newcomers down the order, in positions that make it harder, instead of easier to succeed.  Let's make them unsure of their place in the team and squad, and blame them for all the team's problems.  

 

Banjo chewwwtiya banaa rahe hai yeh log fans ko.  

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

And he wasn't just an IPL flash in the pan.  He put up an absolute monster of a Ranji season ahead of that.  In an Indian ODI team that has a severe deficit of six-hitting ability between Rohit and Pandya, his keeping ability or inexperience didn't matter.  He could play as a pure batsman.  In fact, the right call would be to unleash a fearless young tyro like him, at the top of the order, with field restrictions.  That's what South Africa did, with QdK.   But again, top order ODI batting slot is worth millions of dollars in endorsement value.  And is like a feudal jaagir.  Who cares whats best for the team.  

 

But if Rishabh Pant and/or KLPD Rahul were given even a handful of chances opening the batting, and if they had clicked - then what?  Would Virat and Rohit agree to slide down the order and give up the chances to rack up meaningless centuries?  I don't question Dhawan as much, because the guy has demonstrated with his batting, that he is relatively selfless.  

 

Instead, let's shunt the newcomers down the order, in positions that make it harder, instead of easier to succeed.  Let's make them unsure of their place in the team and squad, and blame them for all the team's problems.  

 

Banjo chewwwtiya banaa rahe hai yeh log fans ko.  

history repeats itself. 

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

After CT 2017 India kept winning most series, I think only England series and latest Australian series were only losses. Bowling covered for most deficiencies.That coupled with lack of batting talent in domestic cricket and Kohli's unwillingness to try youngsters has led to this debacle.

 

After seeing England score 358 without even breaking a sweat and without their most potent finisher, India is so far behind in actual talent.

 

Yes Bairstow and Butlers are no spring chickens but the batting surplus England has is ridicolous.Where are our domestic players who have been playing in IPL for 4 or 5 seasons who are capable of hitting 50 ball 100s??? or 25 ball fifties.

 

Don't include Pant and Pandya, they are already there.Some people are arguing it is the mindset of top three. I don't think India has won any match by either scoring 300 plus when batting first or chasing 300 plus when they lose early wickets.

How many England have other than these two? These guys are playing for last 7 years in international cricket. They aren't rookies. You can't expect rookies to do that.

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

How many England have other than these two? These guys are playing for last 7 years in international cricket. They aren't rookies. You can't expect rookies to do that.

What are we expecting rookies to do ? Who is that rookie we are expecting to do.Is Pandya or Pant a rookie. Show me talented rookie who is at the same class as Bulter or Bairstow.

 

Were Kuldeep and Chahal not rookies when they started to perform????Chahal played in IPL for few seasons, I am not seeing that same talent even in IPL when it comes to batsmen.

England has Jason Roy, Alex Hales, Stokes and they have very good no4 in Morgan. All their bowlers can bat  that is their strength.

 

What do we have none of bowler can bat, we don't have single 100 from no4 and down.Yes Rahul should have been given chances but after seeing Rahul struggle in tests, he is still unknown.

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I think Kohli sucks in captaining and loves his captain Dhoni and emotionally backs him.  Wish Rohit was captain and Kohli was a happy premier bat then Dhoni would have been encouraged to retire or become coaching staff etc if his game plan skill is needed. Dhoni is not as international bat may be he finds some form against a few sides and chips in against Aus/ Eng hopefully other bats fire in decider games.

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9 hours ago, putrevus said:

What are we expecting rookies to do ? Who is that rookie we are expecting to do.Is Pandya or Pant a rookie. Show me talented rookie who is at the same class as Bulter or Bairstow.

 

Were Kuldeep and Chahal not rookies when they started to perform????Chahal played in IPL for few seasons, I am not seeing that same talent even in IPL when it comes to batsmen.

England has Jason Roy, Alex Hales, Stokes and they have very good no4 in Morgan. All their bowlers can bat  that is their strength.

 

What do we have none of bowler can bat, we don't have single 100 from no4 and down.Yes Rahul should have been given chances but after seeing Rahul struggle in tests, he is still unknown.

Pant is a rookie? has barely played 4-5 ODIs.  Debuted just last year.  How can a rookie be same class as Butler and Bairstaw?  Even they were not the same class as they are now when they were rookies.  They are seasoned cricketers.  You cant expect rookies to play like seasoned cricketers.  Pandya and Pant are as good a hitters of the ball as Butler and Bairstaw. Pandya had the second highest SR in IPL more than Butler and Bairstaw.

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6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Pant is a rookie? has barely played 4-5 ODIs.  Debuted just last year.  How can a rookie be same class as Butler and Bairstaw?  Even they were not the same class as they are now when they were rookies.  They are seasoned cricketers.  You cant expect rookies to play like seasoned cricketers.  Pandya and Pant are as good a hitters of the ball as Butler and Bairstaw. Pandya had the second highest SR in IPL more than Butler and Bairstaw.

Don't bring Pant up , we know Pant should be there in the team. are you kidding me Pandya is as good hitter as Butler? He is not even patch on Butler.Let him score an odi 100 first.Scoring 150 at SR of 200 and scoring 30 at SR of 220 is not same.If Pandya is as good as Buter India has nothing to worry about.

 

We are talking about batting talent? 

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Don't bring Pant up , we know Pant should be there in the team. are you kidding me Pandya is as good hitter as Butler? He is not even patch on Butler.Let him score an odi 100 first.Scoring 150 at SR of 200 and scoring 30 at SR of 220 is not same.If Pandya is as good as Buter India has nothing to worry about.

 

We are talking about batting talent? 

how many batsmen have 100s at #7 in ODIs?  when has butler scored 150 at an SR of 200?  Pandya recently scored 91 of 34 balls in IPL over 200 SR.  Butler and pandya's SR are not even close in IPL.  Pandya averaged 44 with an SR of 191, Butler 38 with an SR of 151.

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12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how many batsmen have 100s at #7 in ODIs?  when has butler scored 150 at an SR of 200?  Pandya recently scored 91 of 34 balls in IPL over 200 SR.  Butler and pandya's SR are not even close in IPL.  Pandya averaged 44 with an SR of 191, Butler 38 with an SR of 151.

@putrevus  Pandya may not be "as good as" Buttler.  But he has definitely gotten fewer opportunities than Ben Stokes with the bat in ODIs.   He may not be able to succeed in playing longer innings.  But then again, he just might.  It was in the team's best interests to give him ample chances and find out just what the limits are on his batting potential.  We haven't done that, when we easily could have.  

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