zen 8,814 Report post Posted May 15 (edited) There have been debates about various spots esp. considering the batting-friendly conditions in the WC and availability of better options for some of the spots. Some of my threads have discussed the challenges, this thread is about how to make the most of the current resources. Before proceeding with that, a caution on the importance of the first 3 games, which if Ind loses could see it out of the tourney in the "worst" case scenario. First, the key players based on experience and/or current form: Dhawan, Kohli, KL, Pandya, Chahal, Bumrah, and Shami Second, let us identify the other key players: Rohit, Dhoni, Bhuvi, Kuldeep (went through a tough phase in IPL so in a step below based on current form), and DK (can be rotated with Dhoni in a relatively long tourney) Third, the remaining group Shankar, Jadeja, and Jadhav For the first 2-3 games, which are against SA, Aus, and NZ, we may need to start with the following: Openers: Rohit and Dhawan. Both of them are experienced campaigners. On good batting surfaces, both should try to look to play positive normal cricket. Rotate the strike, use the gaps (like Warner does for e.g.), dispatch the bad balls to the boundaries, create "smart" opportunities if bowlers are dominating. Basically, need to set a positive tone for India Kohli. Ind's premier batsman. He should look to anchor the inning and rotate the strike KL. How the number 4 does will be the key esp. because the role would need to adjust and react as per the situation. If in early, would need to consolidate. If in late with Kohli playing, he has to attack relatively more. If playing with the opener, has to decide who would continue to attack and who would try to anchor. Most likely the opener if still at the crease would be in a good rhythm so KL can look to anchor and play till the end Pandya. This is another key position. India's best power hitter needs to be in at 5. If in early, he can settle down nicely. If in late, he has the ability to get going from ball 1 WK. Dhoni and DK can be rotated in a long tourney so both remain relatively fresh #7. Here Jadeja or Jadhav or Shankar can be slotted per form and team balance requirements Kuldeep or Bhuvi per conditions and form Shami. To go for wkts Chahal. Starting with Chahal as the first spinner as he appears to be in better form. If Kuldeep regains his form, he can be the first spinner Bumrah. Ind's premier bowler. As the tournament progresses and if India is doing well, he can be rotated with Bhuvi/Shami In the above line up, #7 (Jadeja/Jadhav/Shankar) is the weak spot relatively but can be managed by rotation, current form, conditions, and team balance requirements. Sooner or later, a winner would emerge for the #7 position. The top 5 and the 4 bowlers would need to take the bulk of responsibilities initially until we know which players are driving the team's performance. BOL! Edited May 15 by zen 1 4 The Dark Horse, nitinbwj, tweaker and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted May 15 Good to see some ex-cricketers starting to talk about the 11 on the lines above! Quote Share this post Link to post
maniac 18,144 Report post Posted May 15 12 hours ago, zen said: There have been debates about various spots esp. considering the batting-friendly conditions in the WC and availability of better options for some of the spots. Some of my threads have discussed the challenges, this thread is about how to make the most of the current resources. Before proceeding with that, a caution on the importance of the first 3 games, which if Ind loses could see it out of the tourney in the "worst" case scenario. First, the key players based on experience and/or current form: Dhawan, Kohli, KL, Pandya, Chahal, Bumrah, and Shami Second, let us identify the other key players: Rohit, Dhoni, Bhuvi, Kuldeep (went through a tough phase in IPL so in a step below based on current form), and DK (can be rotated with Dhoni in a relatively long tourney) Third, the remaining group Shankar, Jadeja, and Jadhav For the first 2-3 games, which are against SA, Aus, and NZ, we may need to start with the following: Openers: Rohit and Dhawan. Both of them are experienced campaigners. On good batting surfaces, both should try to look to play positive normal cricket. Rotate the strike, use the gaps (like Warner does for e.g.), dispatch the bad balls to the boundaries, create "smart" opportunities if bowlers are dominating. Basically, need to set a positive tone for India Kohli. Ind's premier batsman. He should look to anchor the inning and rotate the strike KL. How the number 4 does will be the key esp. because the role would need to adjust and react as per the situation. If in early, would need to consolidate. If in late with Kohli playing, he has to attack relatively more. If playing with the opener, has to decide who would continue to attack and who would try to anchor. Most likely the opener if still at the crease would be in a good rhythm so KL can look to anchor and play till the end Pandya. This is another key position. India's best power hitter needs to be in at 5. If in early, he can settle down nicely. If in late, he has the ability to get going from ball 1 WK. Dhoni and DK can be rotated in a long tourney so both remain relatively fresh #7. Here Jadeja or Jadhav or Shankar can be slotted per form and team balance requirements Kuldeep or Bhuvi per conditions and form Shami. To go for wkts Chahal. Starting with Chahal as the first spinner as he appears to be in better form. If Kuldeep regains his form, he can be the first spinner Bumrah. Ind's premier bowler. As the tournament progresses and if India is doing well, he can be rotated with Bhuvi/Shami In the above line up, #7 (Jadeja/Jadhav/Shankar) is the weak spot relatively but can be managed by rotation, current form, conditions, and team balance requirements. Sooner or later, a winner would emerge for the #7 position. The top 5 and the 4 bowlers would need to take the bulk of responsibilities initially until we know which players are driving the team's performance. BOL! A good objective analysis without any stat manipulation to suit agenda :) 1 vvvslaxman reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
diehardpacer 263 Report post Posted May 15 Look to score 7-8 runs an over right from the start. Keep the dots to a minimum.Biggest culprits here could be Rohit & Dhoni. Dhoni should be asked to bat 6/7. Give KLR the 4th spot right from the start. Pick bowlers in XI that are likely to pick wickets.That means no place for Shankar. Pandya has to bowl full quota. Don't give more than 3 overs to any bowler in 1 spell.Batsmen get settled easily that way. 1 zen reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Vilander 9,321 Report post Posted May 16 4 hours ago, diehardpacer said: Look to score 7-8 runs an over right from the start. Keep the dots to a minimum.Biggest culprits here could be Rohit & Dhoni. Dhoni should be asked to bat 6/7. Give KLR the 4th spot right from the start. Pick bowlers in XI that are likely to pick wickets.That means no place for Shankar. Pandya has to bowl full quota. Don't give more than 3 overs to any bowler in 1 spell.Batsmen get settled easily that way. Replacing Shankar with a bowler will weaken batting and lengthen the tail. And Jadeja is tail. Pandya and Jadhav or Pandya and Shankar should play. 2 nevada and Ankit_sharma03 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Vilander 9,321 Report post Posted May 16 TM has not decided to go with KLR in no4 have they ? Quote Share this post Link to post
Gollum 17,284 Report post Posted May 16 1 hour ago, Vilander said: TM has not decided to go with KLR in no4 have they ? Doubt TM has decided anything, every other day Kohli and Shastri come up with new statements. I fear they will play passing the parcel with #4 spot not allowing anyone to settle down. 1 nevada reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Norman 1,971 Report post Posted May 16 (edited) I really miss the batting depth we had at the last champions trophy. Of course, it didn't come to any use, when it mattered the most. But still we had capable bats all the way upto number 10 Bhuvi. Now we may see Shami playing at no.8. Edited May 16 by Norman Quote Share this post Link to post
Nikola 3,645 Report post Posted May 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Norman said: I really miss the batting depth we had at the last champions trophy. Of course, it didn't come to any use, when it mattered the most. But still we had capable bats all the way upto number 10 Bhuvi. Now we may see Shami playing at no.8. so you count jadeja and ashwin as good lower middle batsman in odis? shami is way better than selfish jaddu who will never play for team when needed most. Atleast shami will swing his bat and get out. Edited May 16 by Nikola 1 tweaker reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Norman 1,971 Report post Posted May 16 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Nikola said: so you count jadeja and ashwin as good lower middle batsman in odis? Not good but still better than Shami , Kuldeep or Chahal. I'd back them to get 50 runs between them if we are 7 down. But not the current tail. 45 minutes ago, Nikola said: shami is way better than selfish jaddu who will never play for team when needed most. I agree that jaddu is selfish and he's not a team man, but saying Shami is better than him is jumping too far. 45 minutes ago, Nikola said: Atleast shami will swing his bat and get out. And what use will that be of ? I'd take 20 (30) from Jaddu rather than a 0(1) from Shami. Edited May 16 by Norman Quote Share this post Link to post
Nikola 3,645 Report post Posted May 16 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Norman said: Not good but still better than Shami , Kuldeep or Chahal. I'd back them to get 50 runs between them if we are 7 down. But not the current tail. I agree that jaddu is selfish and he's not a team man, but saying Shami is better than him is jumping too far. And what use will that be of ? I'd take 20 (30) from Jaddu rather than a 0(1) from Shami. kuldeep and chahal are wicket takers not contain type of bowlers and in eng conditions ash & jaddu will get easily smacked as well. Their batting which is totally useless when teams needs it. Yeah jaddu might score 20 of 30 but it will come when team needs 60 of 40 balls. Edited May 16 by Nikola Quote Share this post Link to post
Norman 1,971 Report post Posted May 16 13 minutes ago, Nikola said: kuldeep and chahal are wicket takers not contain type of bowlers and in eng conditions ash & jaddu will get easily smacked as well. Their batting which is totally useless when teams needs it. Yeah jaddu might score 20 of 30 but it will come when team needs 60 of 40 balls. All I meant was how deep we used to bat back then compared to our present 7-11 tail. Never compared their bowling abilities, for I know that KulCha are leagues ahead in white ball cricket. Quote Share this post Link to post
Nikola 3,645 Report post Posted May 16 5 hours ago, Norman said: All I meant was how deep we used to bat back then compared to our present 7-11 tail. Never compared their bowling abilities, for I know that KulCha are leagues ahead in white ball cricket. yeah you can't just judge them on batting cause if they are doing better in bowling then that's what you want. In batting it's not that ashwin or jaddu was match winners nor as anyway good like kuldeep/chahal so would take current tail over past ones. Quote Share this post Link to post
Norman 1,971 Report post Posted May 16 11 minutes ago, Nikola said: In batting it's not that ashwin or jaddu was match winners Yes. Apart from that tied game against New Zealand in 2014, they didn't do much. But still it feels a little secure to have capable batters upto no.10 like England now. Especially when wicket is a flat-bed and you have to either put up/Chase a gigantic total. It gives the guys at the top a little more freedom to go all guns blazing. Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted May 18 We discussed the first 3 games vs. SA, Aus, and NZ .... The last two games would be against BD and SL, who could become dangerous as they may have nothing to lose at that point Quote Share this post Link to post
Norman 1,971 Report post Posted May 18 Just now, zen said: We discussed the first 3 games vs. SA, Aus, and NZ .... The last two games would be against BD and SL, who could become dangerous as they may have nothing to lose at that point That and also the sudden rise in the quality of the opponent cometh the SF. Our men will become soft by playing easy teams right before the high intensity SF. Happened in 2015, when we went from Bangladesh to Australia and we all know how that ended. Again in ct17 SF, we played Bangladeshs and beat them without even flexing a muscle and became soft and what happened the next game , we all know. Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted May 25 On 5/14/2019 at 9:55 PM, zen said: #7. Here Jadeja or Jadhav or Shankar can be slotted per form and team balance requirements Kuldeep or Bhuvi per conditions and form The 11 from the OP. If Bhuvi is played, I guess it would be Jadeja or Jadhav at #7. If Kuldeep is played, Shankar may get the opportunity Quote Share this post Link to post
Audiophile 2,400 Report post Posted May 26 (edited) Only way to go the extra mile is if Bewda’s sharabi tond makes that “ecshtra meel.” Edited May 27 by Audiophile 1 nitinbwj reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted May 26 In the last warm-up game, I expect the team to play the 12 that will play in the first game. There would not be much point in denying the time to spend in the middle to those who are expected to play in order to sort out 1 position Quote Share this post Link to post
ShebbySB 667 Report post Posted May 27 For the first game this is my XI: Rohit Dhawan Kohli Rahul Dhoni Shankar Hardik Jadeja Chahal/Kuldeep Shami Bumrah Quote Share this post Link to post
Norman 1,971 Report post Posted May 27 19 minutes ago, ShebbySB said: For the first game this is my XI: Rohit Dhawan Kohli Rahul Dhoni Shankar Hardik Jadeja Chahal/Kuldeep Shami Bumrah I'd play both Kuldeep and Chahal just because it's against South Africa who looked all at sea against them last year. We shouldn't really worry about the batting depth as well as Southampton is an absolute belter of a wicket and our top 4 (if Rahul plays) will really get going. Quote Share this post Link to post
WC2011INDIA 1,717 Report post Posted May 27 When is India's first game ? Quote Share this post Link to post
ShebbySB 667 Report post Posted May 27 24 minutes ago, Norman said: I'd play both Kuldeep and Chahal just because it's against South Africa who looked all at sea against them last year. We shouldn't really worry about the batting depth as well as Southampton is an absolute belter of a wicket and our top 4 (if Rahul plays) will really get going. After the first warm up match I don't feel confident about our batting and playing Shami, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Chahal would mean the tails starts at 8. Quote Share this post Link to post
Ankit_sharma03 16,552 Report post Posted May 27 Simple stick to ur Plan-A, if ur core group fails to perform no matter what combination we ll try we ll fail. Ppl are panicking after one warm up game and then they blame kohli for being impatient 2 philcric and AuxiliA reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Turning_track 2,088 Report post Posted May 27 30 minutes ago, WC2011INDIA said: When is India's first game ? It is versus South Africa at the Rose Bowl, Southampton on 5th June. Quote Share this post Link to post
WC2011INDIA 1,717 Report post Posted May 27 1 hour ago, Turning_track said: It is versus South Africa at the Rose Bowl, Southampton on 5th June. On that day I hope the greenbros win it just cuz it will be fitting with the theme of World Environment Day. Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted May 31 Good to see Kuldeep gain some confidence in the warm ups Quote Share this post Link to post
coffee_rules 5,914 Report post Posted May 31 Looks like sound preparation for the WC. Quote Share this post Link to post
JourneyMan 183 Report post Posted May 31 I would send Pandya and MSD to open. These days innings are won in the first powerplay. 3 philcric, sandeep and vvvslaxman reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
sandeep 10,066 Report post Posted May 31 15 minutes ago, JourneyMan said: I would send Pandya and MSD to open. These days innings are won in the first powerplay. You must be a yuuuuge Pintu Parcha fan. 2 vvvslaxman and JourneyMan reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Laaloo 16,525 Report post Posted May 31 43 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Looks like sound preparation for the WC. Wait why is the chuski trundler chahar in England? Quote Share this post Link to post
coffee_rules 5,914 Report post Posted May 31 5 minutes ago, Laaloo said: Wait why is the chuski trundler chahar in England? India is practicing batting against pace bowling from Saini, Chahar and Khaleel https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/khaleel-saini-chahar-avesh-to-be-india-s-net-bowlers-in-world-cup-119041501193_1.html 1 Laaloo reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
Temujin Khaghan 2,749 Report post Posted May 31 Bolded - compulsive picks until we are damn sure that we have qualified for the semis. Rohit Dhawan Kohli KLR MSD Pandya Shankar/Kedar/DK - it's a shame that DK is our specialist finisher when we got pant in the wings... Jadeja Chahal/Kuldeep/bhuvi - will play bhuvi for Asian opponents and start with chahal for SENAW teams Shami Bumrah I wish we had another pacer who could produce Yorkers at will like bhuvi... Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted June 9 vs NZ at Nottingham If the pitch is like WI vs Pak, Shami in for Kuldeep If the pitch is like Eng vs Pak, Shami in for Jadhav, whose batting form I am unsure about. Jadeja in for Kuldeep if required to strengthen both batting and fielding (though he can come in as a sub) Quote Share this post Link to post
Vijy 2,158 Report post Posted June 9 3 minutes ago, zen said: vs NZ at Nottingham If the pitch is like WI vs Pak, Shami in for Kuldeep If the pitch is like Eng vs Pak, Shami in for Jadhav, whose batting form I am unsure about. Jadeja in for Kuldeep if required to strengthen both batting and fielding (though he can come in as a sub) If Shami comes in for Jadhav, our batting will stop at 6. Bhuvi at 7 will be a joke. I'd rather see Shami come in for Kuldeep, regardless of the pitch. kuldeep is looking off-colour. 1 GoldenSun reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted June 9 2 8 minutes ago, Vijy said: If Shami comes in for Jadhav, our batting will stop at 6. Bhuvi at 7 will be a joke. I'd rather see Shami come in for Kuldeep, regardless of the pitch. kuldeep is looking off-colour. On paper though as if Jadhav is not in good form, it would still stop at 6 but we lose out on bowling resources, our strength Quote Share this post Link to post
Vijy 2,158 Report post Posted June 9 2 minutes ago, zen said: On paper though as if Jadhav is not in good form, it would still stop at 6 but we lose out on bowling resources, our strength But we don't know what form he is in yet. I expect Ind will have at least one top order collapse, which is when the likes of Rahul, Dhoni, and Jadhav will become important with Pandya playing the finisher role. Quote Share this post Link to post
zen 8,814 Report post Posted June 9 1 Just now, Vijy said: But we don't know what form he is in yet. I expect Ind will have at least one top order collapse, which is when the likes of Rahul, Dhoni, and Jadhav will become important with Pandya playing the finisher role. That is something the team management will have to see. I am unsure about his form so have strengthened the bowling Quote Share this post Link to post
jusarrived 2,579 Report post Posted June 9 I would like to see KL and Jadhav swap places if we are going to continue with these steady starts . Pandya and KL in last 10 can make a big difference. Jadhav plays spinners well , will take 30-40 runs from him . Quote Share this post Link to post