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maniac

Imagine the Pressure on Rohit and Virat

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Given how pathetic the middle order is when we couldn’t even get a competitive score against Afghanistan when these 2 got out early and almost lost the game.

 

It’s a Double edged sword. should they attack from the start? Heck even if they get out in over no.35 it’s curtains most times to estimated score.  

 

Cant imagine the pressure. Just one poor shot or a great delivery from the bowler and it’s curtains for India to get a par  score.

 

Rohit has scored 4 100s and a 50, Virat 5 50s, one bad game for both in the knockouts is bound to happen unless we are very very lucky.

Edited by maniac

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3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Given how pathetic the middle order is when we couldn’t even get a competitive score against Afghanistan when these 2 got out early and almost lost the game.

 

It’s a Double edged sword. should they attack from the start? Heck even if they get out in over no.35 it’s curtains most times to estimated score.  

 

Cant imagine the pressure. Just one poor shot or a great delivery from the bowler and it’s curtains for India to get a par  score.

 

Rohit has scored 4 100s and a 50, Virat 5 50s, one bad game for both in the knockouts is bound to happen unless we are very very lucky.

If one of them does not get a 100, India will not win. We have been reduced to the old days of relying on Tendulkar to bat us to a par score or win a game while chasing.

 

In fact it is better for the batsmen around them to take risks so that Hitman and Kohli can lock up one end.

 

I dont even think laying a platform is enough either from these two, one of them has to also bat in the 40-50 over range to help the middle order batting score.

 

If India lose 2/40 in the 10 overs and both those wickets are Hitman and Kohli, the game is all but over.

 

 

 

 

 

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Well if they want to be regarded as elite ATGs they have to step up, especially Kohli who many feel has left King Viv in the shadows :phehe:. Rohit too can enhance his legacy by going big, test of his mettle. Many other ATGs were in similar position. Lanka lost the openers cheaply both in the SF and F in 1996 and rest of MO wasn't that great (honest opinion), Aravinda (also terribly sick in Calcutta) stepped up big time didn't he? Yuvraj-Raina won us the QF from a dicey situation, 1992 Pak had a similar quandary with regards to batting and in the final were 20/2 in 10 with both in form openers back in the hut.  

 

A supporting cast of Rahul, Pant, Pandya, Dhoni, Karthik/Jadhav isn't that bad, just not all-conquering. Dhoni was a great and KLR/Pant/Pandya might finish as great players. Everything won't fall in place all the time, this is good enough to support Rohit/Kohli...and with our awesome bowling they needn't go big, can play more risk free cricket, within their limits. Both our heroes have now been in multiple WCs, combined 20+ years international experience, peak of their powers, easy batting conditions, strong team, no ATG opponent...if they can't step up I will judge them harshly. Pressure is there on everyone, all champions in every sport have had to deal with pressure and many of them weren't/aren't ATGs/flawless. 

Edited by Gollum

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So far they have done a great job. Rohit has piled on 4 centuries and Kohli, though he didn't score a century so far, had 5 fifties back to back. I hope they can pull off a couple more performances like in the match vs Australia. While it is true that they bat under pressure and thus circumspectly, they are still good enough to win the match with only partial fulfilment of their scoring potential. 

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5 hours ago, Master_better said:

Our middle order is very underated. I think Hardik, Pant, Dhoni, Rahul / Mayank can easily take us to par score in case Kohli and Rohit get out early. Even Bhuvi can bat sensibly when required. 

I wan some of what u smoking 

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@maniac I sincerely believe if Kohli can't get a 100 in the SF/F time to let him go in ODIs (but ob won't happen). This is his 3rd WC and he has been an abysmal failure, don't care about useless stats boosters and atm Kohli is just another softie like Amla. Will look like a million bucks in JAMODIs and go missing in big matches. Rohit at least had that tremendous 140 in 2015 QF, irrespective of what happens here he should be our ODI/T20 captain by month end and be given the responsibility (and full backing) till 2023. Even here I will judge Rohit more leniently because he has played a big role in our SF qualification (esp RSA, Pak, BD knocks) like Sachin did in 96, 03, 11. Kohli OTOH has been missing as usual, some useless 50s, barely 1/2 of them being half decent. What say @SK_IH?

Edited by Gollum

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2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@maniac I sincerely believe if Kohli can't get a 100 in the SF/F time to let him go in ODIs (but ob won't happen). This is his 3rd WC and he has been an abysmal failure, don't care about useless stats boosters and atm Kohli is just another softie like Amla. Will look a million bucks in JAMODIs and go missing in big matches. Rohit at least had that tremendous 140 in 2015 QF, irrespective of what happens here he should be our ODI/T20 captain by month end and be given the responsibility (and full backing) till 2023. Even here i will judge Rohit more leniently because he has played a big role in our SF qualification (esp RSA, Pak, BD knocks) like Sachin did in 96, 03, 11. Kohli OTOH has been missing as usual, some useless 50s, barely 1/2 of them being half decent. What say @SK_IH?

Virat 50s were crucial against Aus, Pak and WI. Stop under rating him, yes he has not scored 100s but he has been pivotal. Virat's record is such anything less than 100 seems a failure. 

However I still back him to play a huge role in semis

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2 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Virat 50s were crucial against Aus, Pak and WI. Stop under rating him, yes he has not scored 100s but he has been pivotal. Virat's record is such anything less than 100 seems a failure. 

However I still back him to play a huge role in semis

Out of those 3 only vital 50 was against Aus. Against Pak the clown ran away despite being not out, that spoils the innings for me. WI was a slaughter. I rate his 50 against Afg as a good one, we would have lost that otherwise. 

 

He has to do an Aravinda now, no excuse. If he fails that's the end of the road for him when it comes to being rated as among the best. 

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Kohli runs are almost chance less. If he was dropped as many times as Rohit, he would probably have got big 100s. I do not think any other batsman has received as many chances as Rohit has. 

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3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Out of those 3 only vital 50 was against Aus. Against Pak the clown ran away despite being not out, that spoils the innings for me. WI was a slaughter. I rate his 50 against Afg as a good one, we would have lost that otherwise. 

 

He has to do an Aravinda now, no excuse. If he fails that's the end of the road for him when it comes to being rated as among the best. 

 I agree on the fact his ODI status needs embellishment of a World Cup classic, otherwise it's a bland record.  I have faith he will

Edited by SK_IH

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Out of those 3 only vital 50 was against Aus. Against Pak the clown ran away despite being not out, that spoils the innings for me. WI was a slaughter. I rate his 50 against Afg as a good one, we would have lost that otherwise. 

 

He has to do an Aravinda now, no excuse. If he fails that's the end of the road for him when it comes to being rated as among the best. 

He has already done everything to be rated as great. He has a Century against our arch rivals in 2015 WC. He has always protected the team from collapse in this WC between overs 15-35. He failed against Bangladesh and we lost all wickets.

Whenever there is list of great odi batsmen arvinda de Silva rarely gets mentioned in top 5 or top 10 though his performance was great in knockouts.

Kohli is already GOAT 

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18 hours ago, Gollum said:

Well if they want to be regarded as elite ATGs they have to step up, especially Kohli who many feel has left King Viv in the shadows :phehe:. Rohit too can enhance his legacy by going big, test of his mettle. Many other ATGs were in similar position. Lanka lost the openers cheaply both in the SF and F in 1996 and rest of MO wasn't that great (honest opinion), Aravinda (also terribly sick in Calcutta) stepped up big time didn't he? Yuvraj-Raina won us the QF from a dicey situation, 1992 Pak had a similar quandary with regards to batting and in the final were 20/2 in 10 with both in form openers back in the hut.  

 

A supporting cast of Rahul, Pant, Pandya, Dhoni, Karthik/Jadhav isn't that bad, just not all-conquering. Dhoni was a great and KLR/Pant/Pandya might finish as great players. Everything won't fall in place all the time, this is good enough to support Rohit/Kohli...and with our awesome bowling they needn't go big, can play more risk free cricket, within their limits. Both our heroes have now been in multiple WCs, combined 20+ years international experience, peak of their powers, easy batting conditions, strong team, no ATG opponent...if they can't step up I will judge them harshly. Pressure is there on everyone, all champions in every sport have had to deal with pressure and many of them weren't/aren't ATGs/flawless. 

captain choker will do what he does best in WC KOs, namely, choke (and choke hard). I expect the same of KLR who has been nervous and jittery. my hopes hang almost entirely on rohit, with a quickfire knock from pant or pandya being a bonus.

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1 hour ago, Vijy said:

kohli has a history of going missing in WCs and bashing teams in ODI bilaterals. he is the rich man's amla and ABDV.

ABDV has a great WC record, moreover rain/fate robbed him in the 2015 SF cos he was in the mood to cement his legacy. Atm Kohli is like Amla. 

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3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

ABDV has a great WC record, moreover rain/fate robbed him in the 2015 SF cos he was in the mood to cement his legacy. Atm Kohli is like Amla. 

well, I agree that he has a great WC record but the likes of that blitzkrieg 100 against windies don't count for a lot in my book. what I remember most about ABDV apart from the 2015 SF is how he choked and ran like a headless chicken against that 2011 QF vs NZ. He is clearly one of the very greatest ODI cricketers to grace the game (and one of the most talented ever too), but he has some blemishes on his record. He is definitely far better than mental midget Amla (another highly talented bat) and currently better than VK.

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17 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Virat 50s were crucial against Aus, Pak and WI. Stop under rating him, yes he has not scored 100s but he has been pivotal. Virat's record is such anything less than 100 seems a failure. 

However I still back him to play a huge role in semis

Kohli has done well this World Cup so far.

 

He has to convert one of his 50+ into a big century that forms the backbone of the entire innings in the semi and/or final.

 

If he fails to do this, then his performance this World Cup would be considered average.

 

No point of getting good starts if he cant convert them to big 100s.

 

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The only time India would lose is if bowlers have a off day, Kohli and Rohit get out for a low score. Guys like Rahul, Pant, and Pandeya need to find some solid form if India is to potentially win this World Cup.

 

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If Kohli doesn't click India is pretty much out.  Thankfully he stepped up 5 times. 408 in 7 innings at avge of 58 and SR of 96 is a dream world cup for the most.  As long as Kohli is at the crease chase is on. You can't say the same about Smith, Amla etc.  For the record he has more runs in 1 world cup final than Tendulkar in 2 world cup finals.

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On 7/5/2019 at 11:01 AM, maniac said:

Given how pathetic the middle order is when we couldn’t even get a competitive score against Afghanistan when these 2 got out early and almost lost the game.

 

It’s a Double edged sword. should they attack from the start? Heck even if they get out in over no.35 it’s curtains most times to estimated score.  

 

Cant imagine the pressure. Just one poor shot or a great delivery from the bowler and it’s curtains for India to get a par  score.

 

Rohit has scored 4 100s and a 50, Virat 5 50s, one bad game for both in the knockouts is bound to happen unless we are very very lucky.

The way I see it they have to bat 75+ overs out of the 100 overs in (SF/F)

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6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If Kohli doesn't click India is pretty much out.  Thankfully he stepped up 5 times. 408 in 7 innings at avge of 58 and SR of 96 is a dream world cup for the most.  As long as Kohli is at the crease chase is on. You can't say the same about Smith, Amla etc.  For the record he has more runs in 1 world cup final than Tendulkar in 2 world cup finals.

What about semis and quarterfinals

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Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Final > semi/quarter we can stretch it all the way back to the beginning.  In this type of league every match is important as there is no QF here.  

Semi is as important as final

You don't need to score in semi to reach final, I guess

To kohli or rohit ko semi se rest karwa de

taaki wo final me cute 30 run bana sakey

 

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26 minutes ago, sergio04 said:

Semi is as important as final

You don't need to score in semi to reach final, I guess

To kohli or rohit ko semi se rest karwa de

taaki wo final me cute 30 run bana sakey

 

You need to score in all the matches.  Not just semi. How do you get to semi? Imagine Kohli and Rohit decided to score only in semi and final. Who is going to take them to semi/final? Pinning their legacy on one match is ridiculous. Bad luck can happen even in the semis. Richards flunked in 2 out of 3 finals. That doesn't diminish his legacy. These are batting paradises. It is going to be battathon. Whoever makes less mistake will score runs. I will value wickets in 2019 semis over runs. Tendulkar semi exploits were against Kenya, Srilanka (which we lost), Pakistan (not exactly his best 50 in his career)

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QF,  semis and finals are of equal importance 

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

You need to score in all the matches.  Not just semi. How do you get to semi? Imagine Kohli and Rohit decided to score only in semi and final. Who is going to take them to semi/final? Pinning their legacy on one match is ridiculous. Bad luck can happen even in the semis. Richards flunked in 2 out of 3 finals. That doesn't diminish his legacy. These are batting paradises. It is going to be battathon. Whoever makes less mistake will score runs. I will value wickets in 2019 semis over runs. Tendulkar semi exploits were against Kenya, Srilanka (which we lost), Pakistan (not exactly his best 50 in his career)

If we take all tournaments viv has only 1 century compared to Sachin who has 6.

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On 7/5/2019 at 1:40 AM, SRT100 said:

If one of them does not get a 100, India will not win. We have been reduced to the old days of relying on Tendulkar to bat us to a par score or win a game while chasing.

 

In fact it is better for the batsmen around them to take risks so that Hitman and Kohli can lock up one end.

 

I dont even think laying a platform is enough either from these two, one of them has to also bat in the 40-50 over range to help the middle order batting score.

 

If India lose 2/40 in the 10 overs and both those wickets are Hitman and Kohli, the game is all but over.

 

 

 

 

 

The crucial thing is to get the playing 11 correct. I am still not sure Pant is the right guy at No 4. If playing Karthik or Jadhav thats the position they need to come at. Also dow e go with a extra Batsman in Jadeja keeping the Boult threat in mind ?

 

Law of averages say Rohit is up for failure in semis. KL isn't great against moving ball yet so quality bowler like Boult will immensely trouble him. Time for Virat to stand up and deliver that big 100 now.

Edited by DGBOSS

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On 7/6/2019 at 2:10 AM, rkt.india said:

How? Kohli has 408 runs in 7 games, Babar 467 in 8. Kohli has 5 50 plus scores, Babar 4.  Babar has an SR of 87, Kohli has 96.

Its the impact of one's game on the teams performance. A Batsman of Kohli's caliber you expect at least 3 100s . Its time it comes in the semis.

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On 7/6/2019 at 1:41 AM, vvvslaxman said:

Final > semi/quarter we can stretch it all the way back to the beginning.  In this type of league every match is important as there is no QF here.  

Disagree. Semis are always the toughest game to win in any sport. Tougher than the final

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In a way, this is a situation created by the top order. On good batting surfaces, they bat long to deny MO relevant match practice. On good bowling wkts, they crumble to expose the MO .... Also, we have not even tried to give a decent run to right players either in the MO or in the top order in the build-up to the world cup 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zen

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Rohit has done great in worldcup and i feel Kohli will step up when it matters the most. Rohit too should look to start positive instead of feeling pressure and who knows he might score another ton. 

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33 minutes ago, zen said:

In a way, this is a situation created by the top order. On good batting surfaces, they bat long to deny MO relevant match practice. On good bowling wkts, they crumble to expose the MO .... Also, we have not even tried to give a decent run to right players either in the MO or in the top order in the build-up to the world cup 

 

 

 

 

This is a new one :hysterical: so you mean to see they need to get out early on purpose in some matches or flip the batting order time to time.

 

 

Edited by maniac

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8 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Rohit has done great in worldcup and i feel Kohli will step up when it matters the most. Rohit too should look to start positive instead of feeling pressure and who knows he might score another ton. 

Actually he has been the aggressor . I think he has taken over Shikhar’s role and Rahul in the Rohit role. Except the England game where both him and Kohli were struggling for the most part that’s been the plan

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On 7/5/2019 at 1:48 AM, Master_better said:

Our middle order is very underated. I think Hardik, Pant, Dhoni, Rahul / Mayank can easily take us to par score in case Kohli and Rohit get out early. Even Bhuvi can bat sensibly when required. 

Please add sarcasm alert 

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12 minutes ago, maniac said:

This is a new one :hysterical: so you mean to see they need to get out early on purpose in some matches or flip the batting order time to time.

 

 

“Rotate”. For e.g., there is no point if Rohit Sharma scores 5 100s in round robin games where Ind is good enough to make it to the next stage anyways even if it opened with someone else, and then fail when it really counts. Needs to deliver in key games or what is the use of those 100s if Ind gets knocked out! As a Rohit fan, I am sure you would agree that he needs to put his “form” to good use in knockouts   :winky:

 

Edited by zen

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7 minutes ago, zen said:

“Rotate”. For e.g., there is no point if Rohit Sharma scores 5 100s in round robin games where Ind is good enough to make it to the next stage anyways even if it opened with someone else, and then fail when it really counts. Needs to deliver in key games or what is the use of those 100s if Ind gets knocked out! As a Rohit fan, I am sure you would agree that he needs to put his “form” to good use in knockouts   :winky:

 

I believe in not breaking a great rhythm. Period.

 

India only confirmed a semis spot in the last game vs Bangladesh where Rohit was the man of the match.

 

The game vs Srilanka was equally crucial to see who got the relatively weaker opponent in semis where Rohit yet again performed. Sure Finals and semi finals sound glamorous and all but the road to get there is equally if not more  important.

 

Many times you see a batsman score a magnificent 100 but after a drinks break he loses concentration.

 

I personally don’t believe in resting someone just for the sake of it unless they are injured or they specifically ask for rest as they feel a burnout.

Edited by maniac

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6 minutes ago, zen said:

“Rotate”. For e.g., there is no point if Rohit Sharma scores 5 100s in round robin games where Ind is good enough to make it to the next stage anyways even if it opened with someone else, and then fail when it really counts. Needs to deliver in key games or what is the use of those 100s if Ind gets knocked out! As a Rohit fan, I am sure you would agree that he needs to put his “form” to good use in knockouts   :winky:

 

Lol didn't you say rohit has been poor in last worldcup's league matches vs top teams and his ton in quarter final doesn't matter as it came against minnows. Now when he scored runs against so many opposition that it will be hard for you filter which and which not so you will say that these runs don't matter too? Also we saw what happened when he failed in couple of matches and what middle order can do.

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