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India need a England like overhaul to save odi cricket

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1 minute ago, Laaloo said:

Rohit

dhawan

kohli

gill

agarwal

pant

pandya

Agarwal is a natural opener. Won't do justice to him if he's in the middle order.

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Lage haath Bhuvi must also retire along with Thala, DK. KL should be booted for long time. Chahal must be dragged on his arse back to domestics and if he smiles after a getting tonked for a boundary, should be permanently banned

 

Shaw must be polished to replace Dhawan/ Rohit in future and give longer rope to youngsters such as Pant, Iyer, Agarwal.

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To groom youngsters, Dhawan rohit kohli need not play forthcoming bilaterals,this has hurt us in the longer run in our build up to this wc

Bairstow,butler,stokes have been around for 8-9 years ,it takes time,we should be patient with Pant,Gill,Shaw, Abhishek Sharma,Mayank,Kishan etc

Same applies to new bowlers,for God's sake now please go past bhuvi,guy is a nothing bowler

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34 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

Rohit is FTB and Dhawan is inconsistent. Both are getting old. They should retire within the next 1 year. Ideally the future team should be:

 

Shaw

Agarwal

Kohli

Gill

(Abhishek Sharma)

Pant

Pandya

Kuldeep

( another young spinner)

Mavi/Nagarkoti/Saini (one of them as 3rd back up pacer)

Bumrah

Rohit i think not going anywhere,i have a strange feeling,Kohli may loose his captaincy if Rohit looks at it his as his own,Rohit has huge power or support behind him,being MI captain and having won 4 ipl trophies further strengthens his claim so he is not going anytime soon atlest as long as he makes one or two hundreds per year

Dhawan is a goner,they will be forced(i hope) to make changes, Bowling too needs a rewamp,cant burn out Bumrah in meaningless bilaterals,no.4,5,6 are still vacant,Bhuvi is probably out, Chahal and Kuldeep may find a competitor in Rahul Chahar,Sundar etc

Edited by Suhaan

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Need this ASAP. Make Rohit the LOI captain. MI has groomed  youngsters with aggressive mindset like Pandya bros and Bumrah. Even had the guts to drop a veteran like Yuvraj for Kishan. Backed guys like Makarande.

 

Remember gave Rayudu a shot too and help him make a mark  when he was still relatively young.

 

We need a total overhaul. This is how you chase a 220 type score. Not take it to the last ball and hit a 6

Edited by maniac

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Indian cricket management and players don't have that culture or appetite to change, it's very very very risk averse

Its only thanks to Lalit Modi's vision IPL happened, BCCI morons were busy trying to kill T20

 

When has India ever revolutionised the game

WI did it, Aus in 2000s did it, SL through 1996 WC and now England

 

Heck how many int Indian batsmen are capable playing reverse hits and switch hits for sixes, Still India yet to produce 150 kph bowler

 

To revolutionise you need backing from grassroots to Indian national team management 

 

Even after 2011-2012 white washes in England and Australia, things have hardly changed, batsmen still struggle against swing, bounce and pace on lively pitches. 

 

Mediocre is all we can settle for with Indian cricket relative the resources and player pool at disposal 

 

It was just sickening to watch DK, Pant, Pandya as our middle order in a WC SF, none average 40 plus, none of them have an ODI century

 

 

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Just now, Pollack said:

A total overhaul would require even Rohit to be booted out. :giggle:

Bairstow is not more aggressive than Rohit. He starts of the same way. May be marginally quicker but gets 100s not mega 100s like Rohit so kind of evens out 

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2 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said:

At least England had the players who could bring in the change. India don't have the likes of Roy, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, and Morgan who can do that..

Shubman Gill and P Shaw are good. KL Rahul stays after removing ghost of dhoni from his body. 

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5 minutes ago, chewy said:

Indian cricket management and players don't have that culture or appetite to change, it's very very very risk averse

Its only thanks to Lalit Modi's vision IPL happened, BCCI morons were busy trying to kill T20

 

When has India ever revolutionised the game

WI did it, Aus in 2000s did it, SL through 1996 WC and now England

 

Heck how many int Indian batsmen are capable playing reverse hits and switch hits for sixes, Still India yet to produce 150 kph bowler

 

To revolutionise you need backing from grassroots to Indian national team management 

 

Even after 2011-2012 white washes in England and Australia, things have hardly changed, batsmen still struggle against swing, bounce and pace on lively pitches. 

 

Mediocre is all we can settle for with Indian cricket relative the resources and player pool at disposal 

 

It was just sickening to watch DK, Pant, Pandya as our middle order in a WC SF, none average 40 plus, none of them have an ODI century

 

 

Agree with a lot of this. Plus you have got a smug self-satisfied core of the team (Dhoni, Kohli, Rohit) that have all won multiple ICC tournaments in the past who know that as long as they do the bare minimum (reach semis) no questions will be asked. The sense of desperation that we had back in the 2007 WT20 and 2011WC is long gone.

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3 hours ago, chewy said:

Indian cricket management and players don't have that culture or appetite to change, it's very very very risk averse

Its only thanks to Lalit Modi's vision IPL happened, BCCI morons were busy trying to kill T20

 

When has India ever revolutionised the game

WI did it, Aus in 2000s did it, SL through 1996 WC and now England

 

Heck how many int Indian batsmen are capable playing reverse hits and switch hits for sixes, Still India yet to produce 150 kph bowler

 

To revolutionise you need backing from grassroots to Indian national team management 

 

Even after 2011-2012 white washes in England and Australia, things have hardly changed, batsmen still struggle against swing, bounce and pace on lively pitches. 

 

Mediocre is all we can settle for with Indian cricket relative the resources and player pool at disposal 

 

It was just sickening to watch DK, Pant, Pandya as our middle order in a WC SF, none average 40 plus, none of them have an ODI century

 

 

F me that is an eye-opener. Comparing it to the pedigree middle order of 2011 makes it even more depressing.  

 

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On 7/10/2019 at 8:39 PM, Bhaiyya said:

Chahal must be dragged on his arse back to domestics and if he smiles after a getting tonked for a boundary, should be permanently banned

I'd love to see this mental midget carry on after Kohli is sacked as the captain :laugh:

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I think we are missing the forest for the trees. England embraced the strategy of aggressive, positive batting under all conditions and then constructed a team around that context. India, on the other hand, chose the strategy of cautious, defensive batting till the first 10-20 overs and then constructed a team around that context. The genesis of India's approach lies in the past heartbreaks of WC 2003, WC 2015, CT 2017 where the top-order collapse always shut the door on their chances. This "shutting-the-shop for the initial period" strategy was a rational attempt to address the persistent trauma of the top-order collapse... but as they say, you can't run away from your demons :)

 

Here's a very good article that contrasts India's strategy against England's strategy: http://cricviz.com/2019/07/cricviz-analysis-the-failure-of-indias-strategy/

 

From the article:

Quote

A conservative approach ensures only one thing – it ensures you won’t score many runs. What it does not ensure is that you will get through the early stages unscathed every time. As today showed.

 

Edited by Praveen Amre
Addition

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6 hours ago, chewy said:

Indian cricket management and players don't have that culture or appetite to change, it's very very very risk averse

Its only thanks to Lalit Modi's vision IPL happened, BCCI morons were busy trying to kill T20

 

When has India ever revolutionised the game

WI did it, Aus in 2000s did it, SL through 1996 WC and now England

 

Heck how many int Indian batsmen are capable playing reverse hits and switch hits for sixes, Still India yet to produce 150 kph bowler

 

To revolutionise you need backing from grassroots to Indian national team management 

 

Even after 2011-2012 white washes in England and Australia, things have hardly changed, batsmen still struggle against swing, bounce and pace on lively pitches. 

 

Mediocre is all we can settle for with Indian cricket relative the resources and player pool at disposal 

 

It was just sickening to watch DK, Pant, Pandya as our middle order in a WC SF, none average 40 plus, none of them have an ODI century

 

 

Beautifully summarized. 

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3 hours ago, shychipmunk said:

My team for WC 2023

 

Mayank Agarwal
Prithvi Shaw
KL Rahul
Shreyas Iyer (C) 
Shubham Gill
Hardik Pandya
Rishabh Pant (WK) 
Kuldeep Yadav
Navdeep Saini
K Nagarkoti
Jasprit Bumrah

 

12th man : Shreyas Gopal

Looks more like 2027 WC team. Rohit and Kohli not going anywhere till 2023 and Rahul may not be in the team for 2023 WC.

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The big issue would be , if new comers adopt aggressive approach but fail , will the TM ,Selectors & public will give a long rope to these young batsmen? Will Selectors give them assurance that they will play at least 15 matches ? Answer is BIG NO. India is afraid of loosing even one bi- lateral series. Couple of failures& the youngster will be dropped. Everyone wants his place and hence caution. There is a reason why Dhawan &Rohit play slowly initially in every match. There is a reason why MSD never takes risk but will remain not out. Only 2 guys currently play freely. But even couple of failures,everyone is after them including most of the ICFERS Too. Remember Bairstow,Roy,Butter did not become monsters overnight. It took almost 4-5 years,Just check how poor they were Vs Spin earlier. Are we going  to give same opportunity to our youngsters? I cannot even think about that.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vijay50 said:

Looks more like 2027 WC team. Rohit and Kohli not going anywhere till 2023 and Rahul may not be in the team for 2023 WC.

Agree,  but I feel,  Rahul will flourish if Virat is not there,  he intimidates Rahul not allowing him to perform.  For that matter most players play better under Rohit instead of Virat! 

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You see Morgan reverse sweeping, buttler destroying attacks. That’s exciting to watch. You see stokes scooping the ball. The only one who does that in our team is dK and he hardly lasts long enough to make an impact. There is no excitement in our ODI or T20 team.

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Let's face it, India topped the group, dominated the league stage. Will leave the tournament with the best win/loss percentage as well.  Rain came out of nowhere, India lost the knockout in conditions which are India's nemesis but that still doesn't excuse the poor team selection, tactics, and execution especially by the batsmen.  India still has the #1 and #2 ODI bats in Kohli and Rohit.  and India still hovers around the #1 ODI team. There are not going to be any wholesale changes. A couple of players will come and go in the middle order.

 

Even England was quite cautious in the first 9 overs against that match against India and then went ballistics in 10-23 overs.  In the end, England's most hidden and potent weapon, the rain, came like a ghost and snatched the cup away from India. Pretty much the conditions and timing favored NZ.  When the top 3 collectively failed, India still had a chance but let's say lack of  inexperience and game awareness came in the way. Still doesn't excuse the way India 'choked' knowing very well what was to be expected in those conditions. In the end, lack of tactics, and execution cost India

Edited by vice

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Come to think of it, topping the ODI spot year after year is kinda useless if you don't bring home the WC.  All those four years should be seen as preparation for the WC.

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http://cricviz.com/2019/07/cricviz-analysis-the-failure-of-indias-strategy/

The must not lose wickets in the start strategy does not guarantee you won't lose wickets but it does guarantee you will end up with less runs.It's important to force bowlers to make errors in their lines & lengths by attacking them early.

Aus,Eng & NZ had atleast 3-4 decent seamers in every match.If we had 4 pacers excluding Pandya,the chances of getting wickets would have been higher given the cloudy conditions.We didn't even pick extra pacers in the squad.

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4 hours ago, vijay50 said:

Sehwag is the ultimate beast. I miss him.

I’ve mentioned earlier... I see Sehwag batting in Jason Roy... Minimum feet movement, excessive bottom hand... the patta shots on leg side...

I miss him too...

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5 hours ago, asterix said:

Batting Coach Sanjay Bangar could be sacked by BCCI. Reading News Ticker on NDTV...

    Aur ek Bali ka bakra mila . Why only assistant coach ? Why not head coach & Kaptaan .

    SF loss was more about bad  team selection and even more bad batting position allocated and bad execution . 

    Only 1 issue they had to execute well , that was survive 10 overs once they saw the movement . 

     I do not think Bangar was the culprit for these. 

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1 minute ago, prudent_kreeda said:

    Aur ek Bali ka bakra mila . Why only assistant coach ? Why not head coach & Kaptaan .

    SF loss was more about bad  team selection and even more bad batting position allocated and bad execution . 

    Only 1 issue they had to execute well , that was survive 10 overs once they saw the movement . 

     I do not think Bangar was the culprit for these. 

It’s quite common practice to sacrifice the lower rank scapegoats to protect the influential ones...

 

I'm sure there will be more questions asked and some heads will roll at the top...

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Miss Yuvraj and gambhir.... big match players.... biggest match winners ever for Indian ODI team.. Kohli performances are moot if he does not perform in key moments... I would strip Kohli out of captaincy... no way you want someone who chokes in most semifinals and finals... bekaaar player...

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drop Rahul,Kartik,Kedar,Dhoni . Bring in Mayank,Shaw,Gill & Pant,Anmolpreet Singh & some promising left hander.

 

Promote Jadeja up the order.Has been saying this for a while now. He can be the  no:6 for India in ODIs .

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On 7/11/2019 at 1:12 PM, chewy said:

Indian cricket management and players don't have that culture or appetite to change, it's very very very risk averse

Its only thanks to Lalit Modi's vision IPL happened, BCCI morons were busy trying to kill T20

 

When has India ever revolutionised the game

WI did it, Aus in 2000s did it, SL through 1996 WC and now England

 

Heck how many int Indian batsmen are capable playing reverse hits and switch hits for sixes, Still India yet to produce 150 kph bowler

 

To revolutionise you need backing from grassroots to Indian national team management 

 

Even after 2011-2012 white washes in England and Australia, things have hardly changed, batsmen still struggle against swing, bounce and pace on lively pitches. 

 

Mediocre is all we can settle for with Indian cricket relative the resources and player pool at disposal 

 

It was just sickening to watch DK, Pant, Pandya as our middle order in a WC SF, none average 40 plus, none of them have an ODI century

 

 

As you said, we always were an run-of-the-middle team, and we will remain this way. There were only 10 teams in this WC and we finished at 4 (or 3 maybe if there was a losers final). being 4 out of 10 is the very definition of mediocrity.

 

The word comes to English via Middle French from the Latin word mediocris, meaning "of medium size, moderate, middling, commonplace"

 

Therefore, let us embrace and celebrate this mediocrity because we will not get anything much better in the near-future.

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