straighttalk Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 I have seen a lot of blame put on the middle order but are they really the ones to be blamed? Hear me out before you bring in the statistics. First the players selected were not the best. And fault lies not with the players but with the captain coach and selectors. The way Rayudu Jadhav Dk vijay sharma were treated is not the right way to treat players. Same goes with removing the wrist spinners. However the bigger blame lies with the top order. Most pitches in odis are flat. The top order starts slowly and builds a platform and this happens game after game. The middle order players hardly gets game time. Their job is to hit few balls and get max runs. People go gaga over centuries that kohli or sharma scores. But on such flat pitches given opportunity rayudu or someone more talented can also deliver. But they are not given such an opportunity. This was not the case in earlier teams where the top order took risk to maximise the score giving middle order players ample game time. with this team though the top order hogs game time and score centuries in the group games and meaningless bilaterals. However at the first instance of knockout pressure or swing, they capitulate without any fight. Then the expectation is on the middle order without much game time to bail us out. Thats not possible. It is as simple as that.No team can chase when top theee players score 1 runs each. This same **** happened against pakistan on a benign pitch. I would blame middle order if they failed in delivering on a flat pitch when given an opportunity. case in point is the sri lanka game. What was the need of virat to come at no 3. Why not give an opportunity to dk to get some game time when the match was done and dusted. I have seen this trend in meaningless series where even when the series is decided, the top order does not give game time to the middle order personel. You just cant score easy runs and hog maximum game time and then screw up so badly in knockouts. RAZPOR 1 Link to comment
nevada Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, straighttalk said: I have seen a lot of blame put on the middle order but are they really the ones to be blamed? Hear me out before you bring in the statistics. First the players selected were not the best. And fault lies not with the players but with the captain coach and selectors. The way Rayudu Jadhav Dk vijay sharma were treated is not the right way to treat players. Same goes with removing the wrist spinners. However the bigger blame lies with the top order. Most pitches in odis are flat. The top order starts slowly and builds a platform and this happens game after game. The middle order players hardly gets game time. Their job is to hit few balls and get max runs. People go gaga over centuries that kohli or sharma scores. But on such flat pitches given opportunity rayudu or someone more talented can also deliver. But they are not given such an opportunity. This was not the case in earlier teams where the top order took risk to maximise the score giving middle order players ample game time. with this team though the top order hogs game time and score centuries in the group games and meaningless bilaterals. However at the first instance of knockout pressure or swing, they capitulate without any fight. Then the expectation is on the middle order without much game time to bail us out. Thats not possible. It is as simple as that.No team can chase when top theee players score 1 runs each. This same **** happened against pakistan on a benign pitch. I would blame middle order if they failed in delivering on a flat pitch when given an opportunity. case in point is the sri lanka game. What was the need of virat to come at no 3. Why not give an opportunity to dk to get some game time when the match was done and dusted. I have seen this trend in meaningless series where even when the series is decided, the top order does not give game time to the middle order personel. You just cant score easy runs and hog maximum game time and then screw up so badly in knockouts. Yes, against SL I wish they had sent in Pant for opening and sent DK or even Hardik up the order. In bilaterals even when the series is won, on the pretext of wanting to clean sweep the series and being ruthless, Kohli has completely stopped giving opportunities to newer players to gain experience in different match situations. Link to comment
R!TTER Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 55 minutes ago, nevada said: Kohli has completely stopped giving opportunities to newer players to gain experience in different match situations. Yeah imagine SRT not skipping on useless bilateral after 2007 WC, there would be no (fake) legend of Kohli then! For this I actually give credit to MS, at least he allowed some players to develop under him. This current faker is so out of his depth & totally useless leader that it's ridiculous Suhaan 1 Link to comment
nevada Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, R!TTER said: Yeah imagine SRT not skipping on useless bilateral after 2007 WC, there would be no (fake) legend of Kohli then! For this I actually give credit to MS, at least he allowed some players to develop under him. This current faker is so out of his depth & totally useless leader that it's ridiculous Dhoni backed Rohit Sharma despite his years of failure and turned him into a legend promoting him as opener. Kohli hasn't done anything remotely similar. The loser will play full strength team and bat at #3 even when leading 4-0 in a 5 match series against Zimbabwe. Ruthless my foot, more like gutless and heartless. RAZPOR 1 Link to comment
Tendulkar1996 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Loss of dhawan was crippling though.Thats what happens when you put all your eggs in 1 basket. RAZPOR and nikred 1 1 Link to comment
zen Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Slight movement on the pitch and the openers become a liability. Need better most conditions openers Suhaan 1 Link to comment
IndianRenegade Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) This thread makes an interesting point. With regards to Indian batting, Ganguly undoubtedly laid the foundation of what became the modern Indian team - Sehwag, yuvi, MSD. Then under Dhoni - raina, ghambir, virat, rohit, dhawan flourished. All them are superstars. I can’t think of one young Indian batting star who has made it big after kohli became captain!! There in lies our problem, and kohli’s failure compared to the other great captains. Edited July 11, 2019 by IndianRenegade Link to comment
WC2011INDIA Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, straighttalk said: I have seen a lot of blame put on the middle order but are they really the ones to be blamed? Hear me out before you bring in the statistics. First the players selected were not the best. And fault lies not with the players but with the captain coach and selectors. The way Rayudu Jadhav Dk vijay sharma were treated is not the right way to treat players. Same goes with removing the wrist spinners. However the bigger blame lies with the top order. Most pitches in odis are flat. The top order starts slowly and builds a platform and this happens game after game. The middle order players hardly gets game time. Their job is to hit few balls and get max runs. People go gaga over centuries that kohli or sharma scores. But on such flat pitches given opportunity rayudu or someone more talented can also deliver. But they are not given such an opportunity. This was not the case in earlier teams where the top order took risk to maximise the score giving middle order players ample game time. with this team though the top order hogs game time and score centuries in the group games and meaningless bilaterals. However at the first instance of knockout pressure or swing, they capitulate without any fight. Then the expectation is on the middle order without much game time to bail us out. Thats not possible. It is as simple as that.No team can chase when top theee players score 1 runs each. This same **** happened against pakistan on a benign pitch. I would blame middle order if they failed in delivering on a flat pitch when given an opportunity. case in point is the sri lanka game. What was the need of virat to come at no 3. Why not give an opportunity to dk to get some game time when the match was done and dusted. I have seen this trend in meaningless series where even when the series is decided, the top order does not give game time to the middle order personel. You just cant score easy runs and hog maximum game time and then screw up so badly in knockouts. This. That's why i don't rate these openers. They are selfish cricketers scoring meaningless 100s. Link to comment
Suhaan Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, WC2011INDIA said: Kohli comes across as the jealous type...typical delhiite..backstabbing bitch. Kohli seems quite insecure Link to comment
Suhaan Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 32 minutes ago, zen said: Slight movement on the pitch and the openers become a liability. Need better most conditions openers Problem is most matches are played on flat beds ,most of the times we will end up with same kind of openers Link to comment
Anoop K Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 ICF has some of the most useless fellows. Same ICF was predicted that KL Rahul wasn't being given chances and he was 2nd coming if Bradman. Kohli was jealous of him.... Blah blah. After he was given chances he flopped badly. The truth is even as a captain Kohli doesn't take all decisions alone. Dhoni and Rohit do give their input. If New players are to be given chances oldies like dhoni should be kicked out. Both Kohli and dhoni are responsible for the debacle. Dhoni should have left the scene after 2017 CT. diehardpacer 1 Link to comment
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