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SecondSlip

Who will be your 4, 5, 6 & 7 moving forward?

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18 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I for one don't think Abhishek or Rana should be in the team in the short run. With that said, Vihari (and I am a fan of him for Tests) does not have the type of ODI game required in this era. He would have been perfect in 90s and early 00s era as a middle-order consolidator who could bowl to some extent. These days what matters more than avg is SR although a minimum cutoff for the former is still reqd (avg of around 40). If you look at Eng team, apart from Root and Bairstow, none avg > 45 but all score at a good SR. What we should be looking for are domestic players with an avg of > 40 and a SR ideally of > 85-90. I have a feeling Vihari will prove to be too much of a tuk-tuker in ODIs. Would rather see Iyer or Gill ahead of Vihari. Iyer may look ugly but he has found ways to score runs. Another possibility is to move an opener to middle order such as Mayank, Shaw, Gaekwad, etc. all of whom have very good avgs or SRs (or both).

I was talking of vihari at 5.Vihari actually of late has developed a better power game.

At 4 will be gill or iyer.You can maybe play iyer at 5 and gill at 4 with pant and pandya to follow.But problem is vihari is a handy offspinner,and you need one of top 5 to bowl spin in next world cup as 6th bowler.

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6 minutes ago, Tendulkar1996 said:

I was talking of vihari at 5.Vihari actually of late has developed a better power game.

At 4 will be gill or iyer.You can maybe play iyer at 5 and gill at 4 with pant and pandya to follow.But problem is vihari is a handy offspinner,and you need one of top 5 to bowl spin in next world cup as 6th bowler.

best solution IMO is to have pant opening. he is not a middle-order batsman and he also lacks the tactical nous required of a lower-middle-order batsman as of now (may develop it later). thus, he will be like gilly - open in ODIs and slide to middle order in tests. By having pant open, this leaves 4 and 5 open as before. this can be occupied by 2 of the following 3: Mayank, Iyer, Gill

 

at 6, I would have pandya. at 7, I would play a player who can score fast from the get go and bowl 5-6 overs per match. this will give the 6 bowling options - Nos. 6-11.

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15 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Absolutely Vihari is a defensive batsman more likely.  Let him play tests as of now. Currently Abhishek Sharma & Nitish Rana r the only left handed guys who can bowl part time left arm spin & bat at higher strike rate.  Rana is only 24 I think so he must be given a go in T20s first. 

Rana is too much block-block-bang. his strike rotation is not very strong which is why his List A SR is quite low. I would rather see Iyer, Mayank and Gill ahead of him in the middle order. it's true he offers a bowling option but the best solution in my mind is to play all-rounders & bowlers from 6 to 11 (6 options in all) and have pant open.

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5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Rana is too much block-block-bang. his strike rotation is not very strong which is why his List A SR is quite low. I would rather see Iyer, Mayank and Gill ahead of him in the middle order. it's true he offers a bowling option but the best solution in my mind is to play all-rounders & bowlers from 6 to 11 (6 options in all) and have pant open.

I think his lower S/R in domestics shows it is not easy for stroke makers to bat in Kotla.  He should at least play in T20 cricket at first.  He has played some great impactful knocks in IPl & will be certain upgrade over guys like Jadhav Shankar. Pant can be great choice as opener in T20 format.  Two back to back T20 WC's r coming up so we need dynamic players to stand a chance.  

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12 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Rana is too much block-block-bang. his strike rotation is not very strong which is why his List A SR is quite low. I would rather see Iyer, Mayank and Gill ahead of him in the middle order. it's true he offers a bowling option but the best solution in my mind is to play all-rounders & bowlers from 6 to 11 (6 options in all) and have pant open.

Nitish Rana can rotate strike. His issue is against genuine pace bowlers and short balls. Looks very ungainly.

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Funny thing is the name of abhishek sharma being raised.This is a 18yr old boy with 13 List A games behind him.
Massive batting average of 16 and even more hilarious bowling average of 75.If it was reverse you would have a point.But of course he 'looked good' in ipl.Pakistani logic.
 
Another is nitish rana with 38 avergae from 40 odd matches at 82 SR.
 
Meanwhile no one talks of
Vihari - 48 average from 70 matches at 83 SR.
 
Even pant has bad list A record, but that doesn't mean he should be discarded problem is not with vihari, the thing is when you pick team, focus should be to pick a team that can represent you for good 12-15 yrs

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Nitish Rana can rotate strike. His issue is against genuine pace bowlers and short balls. Looks very ungainly.
Which is a big problem IMHO, that is Exactly the problem with vihari and Aggarwal.

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1 hour ago, vayuu1 said:

Which is a big problem IMHO, that is Exactly the problem with vihari and Aggarwal.

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk
 

Vihari doesn't have ODI game.Glad to be proven wrong but don't see it happening.

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4 to 7...

 

Iyer, Hardik, Pant, Jadeja

 

Pandey at 4, Krunal at 7 being backup options

 

Gives us 6 bowling options, and Hardik high enough to be able to bat a long innings, really impacts our scoring rate. He is good enough to do it, give him responsibility now and see how he fares. Jadeja deserves a long run after his knock, see if he is good enough to come in at 7

Edited by Sooda

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3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think his lower S/R in domestics shows it is not easy for stroke makers to bat in Kotla.  He should at least play in T20 cricket at first.  He has played some great impactful knocks in IPl & will be certain upgrade over guys like Jadhav Shankar. Pant can be great choice as opener in T20 format.  Two back to back T20 WC's r coming up so we need dynamic players to stand a chance.  

Both Rana and Surya Kumar Yadav should be in T20I squad from now on

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Just now, vayuu1 said:

One guy we forget about is rituraj gaikwad that guy has a very good list A record a very good strike rate can took it big 

too many openers around. current opening pair of dhawan-rohit with backups in KLR, mayank and shaw. only possibility is for gaekwad to bat in middle order but he has zero experience there. in list A and ODIs, opening is the easiest. in comparison, batting at 4-6 is much harder.

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9 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Both Rana and Surya Kumar Yadav should be in T20I squad from now on

For T20Is it is a no brainer.  But this selection Committee is joke..  They have only wasted IPL talents so far

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based on Vijay Hazare and looking only group a and group b

 

4. Iyer

5. Pant

6. Rana

7. Pandu 

 

for india a

1. Kaushal 

2. Bist

3. Indrajit 

4. Chopra

5. Yaspal singh

 

no ipl wonder boys like surya yadav. Need to find replacement for Pandu 

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On 7/14/2019 at 3:23 AM, Vijy said:

too many openers around. current opening pair of dhawan-rohit with backups in KLR, mayank and shaw. only possibility is for gaekwad to bat in middle order but he has zero experience there. in list A and ODIs, opening is the easiest. in comparison, batting at 4-6 is much harder.

top scored in second WI a team match

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46 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Before putting name you need to know what you expect from 4 and 5. We need guys with solid defence who can rotate strike and maintain run a ball. Batsman who can walking at 3/2 or 145/2

Also who can change gears when required because most often on flat pitches they will only get to bat when you need quick runs as our top 3 have been so good on flatter tracks that 4-5 hardly get to bat.  Other option is promoting #6 and #7 up when you need quick runs otherwise sending usual 4-5 and when you need the stability.  our too good top 3 have also hindered the progress of our 4 and 5.

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One question no one answered - who is the 6th bowler in our top 6?

Without answering that we can't  answer thread's question.

Other option is jadeja at 7 and pandya 6,but thats risky battingwise.

Edited by Tendulkar1996

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4 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Before putting name you need to know what you expect from 4 and 5. We need guys with solid defence who can rotate strike and maintain run a ball. Batsman who can walking at 3/2 or 145/2

For no. 4 mostly a player who can win u games from 10/2 ........many of these old experts think u need rahane, rayudu kind of player in tht situation which is BS......U need someone Like yuvraj, ABDV, Lara kind who can if needed to see off bit of overs and then still has the ability to take team to 300......for rahul is the only guy i feel as of now . Gill as of with his aggresive game is not at that level but as he ll play he ll get better. Also who is a good player of Spin n Pace both. 

 

For no.5 someone like Hussey or dhoni who can play in any situation

 

At 145/2 anyways we can always use pant n pandya but we need a player who can win u from 3/2 

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20 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Screw 6 bowlers. If you 6 proper batsmen, 4 proper bowlers and 1 all-rounder, everyone knows their role and what is expected of them. 

Too much pressure on pandya,if he gets injured you are *ed midgame.

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India need to be a bit more strategic.

 

(a) The T20 WC is in Australia. We dont play enough T20s in the international arena. Its next year in October/November so no IPL innings for a while.

 

(b) The WC in 2023 is in India. Ie while pitches will be controlled by ICC there will not be overcast conditions to aid swing that much. So you need a 6th bowler who is a reasonable spinner who can bowl 4-5 overs of spin in the middle overs.

 

So we ideally need somebody who fits these parameters. Can maintain an RR of 7-8 in the middle orders on average in Australia and is at home in Indian conditions.

 

I personally think we dont really need to search for long in Indian conditions. If likes of Shaw can basically cement opening position likes of Rahul can move to 4. As we have Pandya the fifth bowler. 

 

Rohit

Dhawan for T20 WC (somebody like Shaw can also be tried)

Kohli

Rahul (for now) in T20/ODI

Pant WC

A batsman who can hit out and consolidate

Pandya

Spinner 1

Spinner 2

Bumrah

Seamer 2

 

For me Rohit, Kohli, Pandya Bumrah and Pant are fixed. Rest all interchangeable on form or conditions.

 

Manish Pandey has a good record in Aus. Might be wise to try him at 5/6 for the T20 WC. 

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On 7/14/2019 at 1:53 PM, Vijy said:

too many openers around. current opening pair of dhawan-rohit with backups in KLR, mayank and shaw. only possibility is for gaekwad to bat in middle order but he has zero experience there. in list A and ODIs, opening is the easiest. in comparison, batting at 4-6 is much harder.

This guy plays spin very well If opener spot not vacant, should be tried @4 or 5

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India needs 4 players who have the ability to overcome collapses and take them to dominating position. Pandya should ideally be a no.8 batsman and Pant a no.7 batsman. Sadly they played at no.4 and no.5. The reason is our team is largely one-dimensional. Bowlers can't bat (except Pandya) Batsmen can't bowl. If you look at Ashwin he saved us quiet a few test matches with bat. Imagine Chahal playing in place of Ashwin in those tests with same wicket taking skills. We might have even lost those tests against Windies. This is something we cannot address as it is upto individual to develop their skills in other areas. This is why guys like Parag, Nitish Rana should be in the mix as both can bowl a bit.

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5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

For no. 4 mostly a player who can win u games from 10/2 ........many of these old experts think u need rahane, rayudu kind of player in tht situation which is BS......U need someone Like yuvraj, ABDV, Lara kind who can if needed to see off bit of overs and then still has the ability to take team to 300......for rahul is the only guy i feel as of now . Gill as of with his aggresive game is not at that level but as he ll play he ll get better. Also who is a good player of Spin n Pace both. 

 

For no.5 someone like Hussey or dhoni who can play in any situation

 

At 145/2 anyways we can always use pant n pandya but we need a player who can win u from 3/2 

Need Kohli to move down to 4. Need some experience in the middle. Irrespective of whoever plays at 4 will lacks requisite experience.

Edited by rkt.india

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On 7/13/2019 at 5:06 AM, SecondSlip said:

My Middle Order: 

 

Shubman Gill at #4 

Shreyas Iyer at #5 

Rishabh Pant (WK) at #6 

Hardik Pandya at #7 

 

What will be your middle order fellow ICFers? 

Very good. But I think we should try grooming Pant as an ODI opener especially with Dhawan not playing the next world cup most likely. I'd like to see Manish Pandey in the middle order given a run. 

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4 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

Manish Pandey has a good record in Aus. Might be wise to try him at 5/6 for the T20 WC. 

Manish Pandey is very slow for t20. He has done better in 50 overs. If we ever bring back Pandey, then it must be fore 50 overs and not for t20. That is a wrong format for him, unless he goes crazy in IPL and score tons of runs, otherwise he is better suited for 50 overs than t20. 

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Need Kohli to move down to 4. Need some experience in the middle. Irrespective of whoever plays at 4 will lacks requisite experience.

Kohli became kohli batting at 3......need someone like rahul or pant who has the extra gear that kohli doesnt 

Kohli wont be as effective at 4 as he is at 3.........neither he enjoys it . I highly doubt No one can be as good as kohli at 3.....

4 yrs is their to give the experience ......2-3 players have to decided upon and given a very long run. They wont get better if they are not allowed to fail 

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58 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Indian batting line up is a bit like RCB line up. No surprise both are led by Kohli. Just get rid of Kohli as captain and install Rohit as captain Watch how India will suddenly become  a middle order strong line up. I

Coz new players are not given specific roles and are not backed. Players shud be backed when they fail as well.....how else will tehy grow . RCB n Indian team under kohli has 2 similar problem- patience with youngsters, team build only around few players . 

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5 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Screw 6 bowlers. If you 6 proper batsmen, 4 proper bowlers and 1 all-rounder, everyone knows their role and what is expected of them. 

not really.....u cant go with this theory when none of ur batsman can roll his arm over. If an injury happens like bhuvi got injured in the game against Pak.....we are screwed. Luckily pandya came back in the game vs NZ or else it cud have been a bigger chase

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27 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Coz new players are not given specific roles and are not backed. Players shud be backed when they fail as well.....how else will tehy grow . RCB n Indian team under kohli has 2 similar problem- patience with youngsters, team build only around few players . 

yes. He tossed out Shivam Dubey after a couple of failures for RCB.

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2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Need Kohli to move down to 4. Need some experience in the middle. Irrespective of whoever plays at 4 will lacks requisite experience.

  Who'll bell  the cat ?  

  Banda to No.3 chodega nahi. 

Edited by prudent_kreeda

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7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Need Kohli to move down to 4. Need some experience in the middle. Irrespective of whoever plays at 4 will lacks requisite experience.

Kohli is also tuk-tuking more. A number 3 needs to exert dominance/control when necessary. may not be a bad idea for him to move a slot below in ODIs.

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