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Norman

Steve Waugh hits the nail on it's head.

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15 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Glad to find atleast few people on this forum who acknowledge we are a country of idiots hero worshippers since I am struggling to find any in real life. :phehe: All I am hearing about is how Dhoni could have won the match if not for the unfortunate run-out.

The exact thing is happening to me in my college. All are Dhoni worshippers, praising h etc.

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24 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Glad to find atleast few people on this forum who acknowledge we are a country of idiots hero worshippers since I am struggling to find any in real life. :phehe: All I am hearing about is how Dhoni could have won the match if not for the unfortunate run-out.

it was not unfortunate at all.  it was the panic that Dhoni had created for himself from 30 ball 53 to 12 ball 31.  He knew he had to play every ball and even then with his current abilities, it was not sure he could do that.  look at the ball he got run out, it was like ball hitting his bat rather than him hitting the ball.  Jaddu was batting at 130 SR when he was batting at 28 of 52 at 55 SR.

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36 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Glad to find atleast few people on this forum who acknowledge we are a country of idiots hero worshippers since I am struggling to find any in real life. :phehe: All I am hearing about is how Dhoni could have won the match if not for the unfortunate run-out.

 

21 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

The exact thing is happening to me in my college. All are Dhoni worshippers, praising h etc.

 

 

I am surprised at the difference in opinions about Dhoni on ICF and in other areas of life.

 

Even all the sensible Dhoni fans on ICF acknowledge that he needs to retire now and is well past his best.

 

Whereas the casual cricket followers seem to have a very different opinion.  (  Although I have met a few people who make fun of his low strike rates and too many dot balls  )

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30 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

I am surprised at the difference in opinions about Dhoni on ICF and in other areas of life.

 

Even all the sensible Dhoni fans on ICF acknowledge that he needs to retire now and is well past his best.

 

Whereas the casual cricket followers seem to have a very different opinion.  (  Although I have met a few people who make fun of his low strike rates and too many dot balls  )

Dhoni’s reputation from his inform days has planted a seed that he can never do anything wrong. 

 

Their memories are short, the only refresher they get is from the commentators who never forget to remind us how great a player/finisher he is, naturally they tend to pin the blame elsewhere - dhoni tried but was unlucky, umpiring flaw, pitch was slow...

Edited by IndianRenegade

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Why don't we have any like minded ex-cricketers in our country?

 

Why blame the casual Indian fans when we have plethora of of our ex-cricketers who are equally dumb and do hero worship?

 

I blame our ex-cricketers more than casuals , they should speak up, they should be first to know what **** is being cooked up while selecting squad

Edited by shami_123

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12 minutes ago, shami_123 said:

Why don't we have any like minded ex-cricketers in our country?

 

Why blame the casual Indian fans when we have plethora of of our ex-cricketers who are equally dumb and do hero worship?

 

I blame our ex-cricketers more than casuals , they should speak up, they should be first to know what **** is being cooked up while selecting squad

Agreed.

 

just my opinion on why they aren’t doing it is, because anyone whose opinion has any weight were hero’s themselves who didn’t recognize their sell by date, hung around too long & either had to slowly sidelined or forced out. They empathize with what’s happening with the current heros.

 

 

The current hero’s are firmly in control at BCCI, why loose on the gravy train by trying to be too honest?

 

 

Edited by IndianRenegade

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3 minutes ago, Kiraisjustice said:

Why do you always have to bring your irrelevant players into discussion, the problem with pak is that you guys have no talent , hafeez is your best player, we on the other hand have better players than dhoni.. You guys already acheived more than your aukaat by reaching 5th, we on the other hand underachieved by not winning the cup

 

Damn ! :lol:

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8 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

Agreed.

 

just my opinion on why they aren’t doing it is, because anyone whose opinion has any weight were hero’s themselves who didn’t recognize their sell by date, hung around too long & either had to slowly sidelined or forced out. They empathize with what’s happening with the current heros.

 

 

The current hero’s are firmly in control at BCCI, why loose on the gravy train by trying to be too honest?

 

 

It is a vicious cycle... From Gavaskar to Kapil to Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman to Sachin, Sehwag to Yuvraj, Dhoni and will proceed to Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan and then the youngsters who look up to them. They just don't know when to let it go!

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6 minutes ago, Kiraisjustice said:

Why do you always have to bring your irrelevant players into discussion, the problem with pak is that you guys have no talent , hafeez is your best player, we on the other hand have better players than dhoni.. You guys already acheived more than your aukaat by reaching 5th, we on the other hand underachieved by not winning the cup

I brought in my cricketer in this discussion cause this is not just an Indian team issue its a Asian team issue. So I felt this time around it fit. 

 

We have no talent? Ok just reword it to “I don’t know any talent” cause clearly you don’t. Hafeez is 38, his replacement won’t be hard to find. In fact we already have it in Fakhar and Imam. He was a opener batting at 4. He himself does not like that position. I am pretty sure we have a player who can score more than his pretty 30s, who does not get out to part time bowlers. 

 

We did overachieve yes. I felt we could have achieved more with the form we had. 

 

As for you underachieving and not winning the cup. I guess I need to shed some light to you about reality. Your team never deserved to win this World Cup with only Rohit and Kohli getting you out of situations. I’ll go on to say your team dominated the group stages cause they were never exposed with the middle order besides against England. I knew your team would lose. It was predictable. Just never knew it would happen against New Zealand.

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9 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Your team never deserved to win this World Cup

 

Yes. A team which ends up top of the table after playing every other team does not deserve to win the world cup just because the middle order is not as good as the top order. 

 

Great logic ! Shabash ! :clap:

 

By the way , your only world cup win was as undeserving as it gets for all the reasons you know and here you are lecturing about who deserves and who not. 

 

Keep going.  You're doing good. 

Edited by Norman

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12 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

Yes. A team which ends up top of the table after playing every other team does not deserve to win the world cup just because the middle order is not as good as the top order. 

 

Great logic ! Shabash ! :clap:

 

Your only world cup win was as undeserving as it gets and here you are lecturing about who deserves and who not. 

 

Keep going.  You're doing good. 

So a past his expiry date middle order wicketkeeper batmen, with young fresh talent who lack experience in the middle order is a great team to win the World Cup? You knew damn well your only hope was with Rohit and Kohli. In this day an age teams are easily exposed by other teams watching clips. There is no way your team was gonna win this thing with only two batsmen. 

 

Lol I like how you bring up 1992 World Cup. A lot has changed buddy. Just face the facts and move on. Your team was not good enough.

Edited by Shaz1

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

I

Whereas the casual cricket followers seem to have a very different opinion

Casual cricket followers don't see stats or otherwise or follow cricket regularly...They only remembers  91 runs he scored  against SL in 2011.

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22 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

So a past his expiry date middle order wicketkeeper batmen, with young fresh talent who lack experience in the middle order is a great team to win the World Cup? You knew damn well your only hope was with Rohit and Kohli. In this day an age teams are easily exposed by other teams watching clips. There is no way your team was gonna win this thing with only two batsmen. 

 

Lol I like how you bring up 1992 World Cup. A lot has changed buddy. Just face the facts and move on. Your team was not good enough.

 And even with that "past his expiry date wicket keeper"  and even while having "only two batsmen"  , we topped the table winning more games than any other team. And that too after allegedly "throwing away" the game against England. :flute:

 

If that doesn't shout out deserving winners (if we'd have won) , then I don't know what would. :dontknow: 

 

At the same time , I can't really blame you for this bias against India but atleast don't make it seem apparent. 

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9 minutes ago, Norman said:

 And even with that "past his expiry date wicket keeper"  and even while having "only two batsmen"  , we topped the table winning more games than any other team. And that too after allegedly "throwing away" the game against England. :flute:

 

If that doesn't shout out deserving winners (if we'd have won) , then I don't know what would. :dontknow: 

 

At the same time , I can't really blame you for this bias against India but atleast don't make it seem apparent. 

Not really your middle order was not exposed much in the group stages besides against England. Rohit had to hit centuries and Kohli had to score his 50s to keep you in. With great bowling performance from Bumrah and Shami. You guys nearly lost to Afganistan. Dhawan’s injury did not help your case either. For majority of the tournament your team too was overachieving. In the knockout stages its more difficult to hide your weakness. That is where teams change there tempo. They come harder for the win. Rohit was bound to get a game where he fails to score, alongside Kohli. In hindsight your team lost when those two got out cheaply. In the last match it proved that. Your team cannot chase a 240 total without Kohli and Rohit. And you come here to say just cause you topped the group stages you deserved to win? Thats very laughable to me.

 

This is not being biased its a observation that you even know but just cause its coming from your neighbor your taking it as bias. 

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I will always respect the aussies for making the tough decisions. They dropped Steve Waugh who captained the 1999 wc and was a legend, before the 2003 cup. Can’t believe BCCI would do the same thing. Kohli has no guts either.

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2 hours ago, express bowling said:

I am surprised at the difference in opinions about Dhoni on ICF and in other areas of life.

Even all the sensible Dhoni fans on ICF acknowledge that he needs to retire now and is well past his best.

Whereas the casual cricket followers seem to have a very different opinion.  (  Although I have met a few people who make fun of his low strike rates and too many dot balls  )

No one wants to have a rational discussion. you have two extreme opinions. 

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17 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Not really your middle order was not exposed much in the group stages besides against England. Rohit had to hit centuries and Kohli had to score his 50s to keep you in. With great bowling performance from Bumrah and Shami. You guys nearly lost to Afganistan. Dhawan’s injury did not help your case either. For majority of the tournament your team too was overachieving. In the knockout stages its more difficult to hide your weakness. That is where teams change there tempo. They come harder for the win. Rohit was bound to get a game where he fails to score, alongside Kohli. In hindsight your team lost when those two got out cheaply. In the last match it proved that. Your team cannot chase a 240 total without Kohli and Rohit. And you come here to say just cause you topped the group stages you deserved to win? Thats very laughable to me.

 

This is not being biased its a observation that you even know but just cause its coming from your neighbor your taking it as bias. 

 

All those ifs, buts , hindsights , bound to etc matter rat **** in practical world. Come out of your bias (I know you won't) and accept it. India were the best team of the tournament until the Semi and if we had won , it's because we fully deserve it.

 

Anyways, your logic is flawed to the core. It's like saying Australia did not deserve to win the 2007 world cup just because they were over dependent on  Hayden and Gilchrist (who btw scored most of the Aussie runs that WC). If this sounded stupid , then you too are right now. 

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1 minute ago, ThePhenomenal1 said:

I will always respect the aussies for making the tough decisions. They dropped Steve Waugh who captained the 1999 wc and was a legend, before the 2003 cup. Can’t believe BCCI would do the same thing. Kohli has no guts either.

Semi final you needed a Rahane kind of batsman. During league matches we had 4-5 low scoring games and it was more than evident we needed a solid no 4. Look at how most will jump as soon as you mention rahane in ODIs team. With pant and pandya in XI we could definitely afford a rahane in place of DK.

 

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2 hours ago, IndianRenegade said:

Agreed.

 

just my opinion on why they aren’t doing it is, because anyone whose opinion has any weight were hero’s themselves who didn’t recognize their sell by date, hung around too long & either had to slowly sidelined or forced out. They empathize with what’s happening with the current heros.

 

 

The current hero’s are firmly in control at BCCI, why loose on the gravy train by trying to be too honest?

 

 

Not only do they empathize, they perhaps realize that they have no credibility in this matter and would rather not step in it. 

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3 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

All those ifs, buts , hindsights , bound to etc matter rat **** in practical world. Come out of your bias (I know you won't) and accept it. India were the best team of the tournament until the Semi and if we had won , it's because we fully deserve it.

 

Anyways, your logic is flawed to the core. It's like saying Australia did not deserve to win the 2007 world cup just because they were over dependent on  Hayden and Gilchrist (who btw scored most of the Aussie runs that WC). If this sounded stupid , then you too are right now. 

Lol I find it funny how you make fun of my ifs and buts when you yourself use a if when you said “if we had won”. Of course you would deserve it if you had won. But not every team was gonna let you win by allowing your only two batsmen to score runs. There was bound to be a game where your top order flops. Which happen during the New Zealand game. Nothing “ifs” or “buts” about that. 

 

Oh yes my logic is flawed cause I said a well known fact about your team. And yes I was gonna laugh at you when you compared your current team to this Australian team:

 

3AFBB108-A671-4830-AD5A-8D33608A282D.thumb.jpeg.b5045b52a6d10fc32cbf98c7b647ebb4.jpeg

 

Clearly no one other than Gilchrist and Hayden can bat in that team. :giggle:

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18 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

No one wants to have a rational discussion. you have two extreme opinions. 

 

Lots of sensible posters on ICF agreed (  say around 3 months before the World Cup )  that although they thought that Dhoni is done and dusted in international cricket, the time to groom a new keeper batsman was gone and he should play the WC.  That seems like a rational viewpoint to me.

 

Playing him in the WC is one thing  ... but effusively praising him, even when he is playing super slowly, is something that is grossly OTT.

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31 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Semi final you needed a Rahane kind of batsman. During league matches we had 4-5 low scoring games and it was more than evident we needed a solid no 4. Look at how most will jump as soon as you mention rahane in ODIs team. With pant and pandya in XI we could definitely afford a rahane in place of DK.

 

I was always in favour of manish pandey ever since he won india the game in australia in 2016. The guy is a gutsy player, was wrongly played in t20s and not given a fair run. He would have been good in a small run chase. Rahane is quality but prone to failure when the pressure is on.

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5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Lots of sensible posters on ICF agreed (  say around 3 months before the World Cup )  that although they thought that Dhoni is done and dusted in international cricket, the time to groom a new keeper batsman was gone and he should play the WC.  That seems like a rational viewpoint to me.

 

Playing him in the WC is one thing  ... but effusively praising him, even when he is playing super slowly, is something that is grossly OTT.

Very well put. That Dhoni was more or less done was evident in CT itself. Ideally grooming should have started back then but we didn't leave much of a choice when we persisted with him. Dhoni today had to be viewed as an exceptional no 8 batsman, guy no 5,6 or 7 can rely on not getting out but won't win you match. 

 

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4 minutes ago, ThePhenomenal1 said:

I was always in favour of manish pandey ever since he won india the game in australia in 2016. The guy is a gutsy player, was wrongly played in t20s and not given a fair run. He would have been good in a small run chase. Rahane is quality but prone to failure when the pressure is on.

Actually Sunny for a long time has been questioning Pandeys exclusion and how unfair selectors have been. 

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2 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Actually Sunny for a long time has been questioning Pandeys exclusion and how unfair selectors have been. 

Absolutely. He finished the 5th odi in australia in 2016 when we were losing 4-0 and the previous game we failed to close from an easy position. It was clear he had guts and determination, decent technique but fight. Top fielder as well. But then wrongly added to t20s and miscast.

 

our selectors are terrible and had pandey been backed for even 2 years im sure he would have got results. 

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29 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Lol I find it funny how you make fun of my ifs and buts when you yourself use a if when you said “if we had won”. Of course you would deserve it if you had won. But not every team was gonna let you win by allowing your only two batsmen to score runs. There was bound to be a game where your top order flops. Which happen during the New Zealand game. Nothing “ifs” or “buts” about that. 

 

Oh yes my logic is flawed cause I said a well known fact about your team. And yes I was gonna laugh at you when you compared your current team to this Australian team:

 

3AFBB108-A671-4830-AD5A-8D33608A282D.thumb.jpeg.b5045b52a6d10fc32cbf98c7b647ebb4.jpeg

 

Clearly no one other than Gilchrist and Hayden can bat in that team. :giggle:

So when are you bringing akmal brothers back in playing XI

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Just now, jf1gp_1 said:

So when are you bringing akmal brothers back in playing XI

Probably never. Although both are trying hard to get in the team by posting there gym videos. Than again these are Pakistani selectors anything could happen.

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28 minutes ago, ThePhenomenal1 said:

I was always in favour of manish pandey ever since he won india the game in australia in 2016. The guy is a gutsy player, was wrongly played in t20s and not given a fair run. He would have been good in a small run chase. Rahane is quality but prone to failure when the pressure is on.

+1. How many players from the current squad have scored a century in Australia? Even **** Karthik was able to make into the WC squad but not Pandey. 

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2 hours ago, Stuge said:

Casual cricket followers don't see stats or otherwise or follow cricket regularly...They only remembers  91 runs he scored  against SL in 2011.

Not always a bad thing.

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1 hour ago, Shaz1 said:

Lol I find it funny how you make fun of my ifs and buts when you yourself use a if when you said “if we had won”. Of course you would deserve it if you had won. But not every team was gonna let you win by allowing your only two batsmen to score runs. There was bound to be a game where your top order flops. Which happen during the New Zealand game. Nothing “ifs” or “buts” about that. 

 

Oh yes my logic is flawed cause I said a well known fact about your team. And yes I was gonna laugh at you when you compared your current team to this Australian team:

 

3AFBB108-A671-4830-AD5A-8D33608A282D.thumb.jpeg.b5045b52a6d10fc32cbf98c7b647ebb4.jpeg

 

Clearly no one other than Gilchrist and Hayden can bat in that team. :giggle:

 

Okay either you're deliberately ignoring my point or it went over your head. 

 

Just tell me ... If India didn't deserve winning this WC , who did ? 

 

England ? A team which lost to bottom half teams like Pak, SL and thrashed by Aus ? No bowler barring Archer is any good. 

 

Australia ? Who lost to an uninterested South Africa  and lost to India as well. 

 

New Zealand ? Your own countrymen were crying  when they made the SF saying they don't deserve to be here.  :giggle:

 

If any team deserved it more than anyone else after the league stage , it's India. That's why everyone (indians) are saying we've underachieved and are gutted about the TM. Remove your green tinted glasses for once. 

Edited by Norman

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6 hours ago, Pollack said:

Glad to find atleast few people on this forum who acknowledge we are a country of idiots hero worshippers since I am struggling to find any in real life. :phehe: All I am hearing about is how Dhoni could have won the match if not for the unfortunate run-out.

U won't believe everyone in my office feels Dhoni would have won the match if not for the run out... The delusions I tell u :blink:

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1 hour ago, Lannister said:

+1. How many players from the current squad have scored a century in Australia? Even **** Karthik was able to make into the WC squad but not Pandey. 

Only Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli have made 100s in Australia in ODIs. Pant has a test 100 as well. So they needed a middle order player who has played a clutch innings and taken india home. Pandey was that guy, he deserved a chance to fail and instead we got DK, it's shocking.

 

Had pandey been at 4 at least he could rotate the strike and keep it ticking, not sure about his chances against swing but he's a gritty player he might have found a way and helped india recover. How could india just discard pandey after that 100 against a wc winning aussie side, that's like the biggest sign that you have a reliable middle order batsman.

 

 

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Steve Waugh comes across as a good Analyst. During the India Nzl game he was commentating with Harsha and Ganguly. He wanted to do badly talk about the game going on but Harsha and Ganguly kept bringing him back to the 1999 WC, SA semifinal and obviously the 2001 Kolkata test when Ganguly was captain :facepalm:

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16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

The over-glorification of Aussies continues. 

 

Same Steve Waugh ran an absolutely shameless PR campaign when he was dropped for the 2003 World Cup.  

 

 

 

I don't think anyone's glorifying them here. And yes...even if they do glorify , there's not much wrong with it given their achievements. 

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38 minutes ago, sandeep said:

The over-glorification of Aussies continues. 

 

Same Steve Waugh ran an absolutely shameless PR campaign when he was dropped for the 2003 World Cup.  

 

 

What over-glorification? Aussies are 5 times World Cup champions. Dominated an entire decade with "no unfortunate" or "not meant to be " attitude. If anything they are under glorified since Australia in this decade has been melted down a lot. Still managed to grab one World Cup. :phehe:

Edited by Pollack

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3 hours ago, Norman said:

 

Okay either you're deliberately ignoring my point or it went over your head. 

 

Just tell me ... If India didn't deserve winning this WC , who did ? 

 

England ? A team which lost to bottom half teams like Pak, SL and thrashed by Aus ? No bowler barring Archer is any good. 

 

Australia ? Who lost to an uninterested South Africa  and lost to India as well. 

 

New Zealand ? Your own countrymen were crying  when they made the SF saying they don't deserve to be here.  :giggle:

 

If any team deserved it more than anyone else after the league stage , it's India. That's why everyone (indians) are saying we've underachieved and are gutted about the TM. Remove your green tinted glasses for once. 

I am not ignoring your points at all. I am saying it like it is. Your loss was predictable. It was going to happen. If not in the Semi’s than in the finals. This is England’s home, they were not gonna simply walk over to the finals and let you win. Not with your current team at least. Deserving to win and having the ability to win are two different things. This indian team never had the ability to win the World Cup. Due to there weak middle order. Due to them relying on two batsmen and few bowlers. The wins of your team hid the flaws of it. Flaws most here knew about. Topping the group stages means little to the actual knockout stages. In those these weaknesses are easily exposed. Your put in situations you do not wanna be in. How does India deserve to win when they are not able to score 240 without Rohit and Kohli? 

 

You guys never underachieved you guys overachieved in the group stages. Cause of your top order firing to hide your weakness. No team deserves to win when there weakness is this terrible. 

 

Ok since you love to use my green card let me tell you the truth about my team. Your team was better than my team. Yes you herd it here. 

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35 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Ok since you love to use my green card let me tell you the truth about my team. Your team was better than my team. Yes you herd it here. 

Not really an achievement to be better than "your team" and I don't want you to tell me that. Because everyone knows it. 

 

And you failed to answer my question. Let me ask you again. 

 

If you think India did not deserve winning this world cup , then who deserved it ? 

 

There has to be someone right ? Or are you just going to say

 

"No-one deserves to win this world cup. Every team has weaknesses. No team is flawless and invincible.  Just strip off this edition of the world cup and play it only when a team looks indomitable so that they really deserve winning this. " 

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Just now, Norman said:

Not really an achievement to be better than "your team" and I don't want you to tell me that. Because everyone knows it. 

 

And you failed to answer my question. Let me ask you again. 

 

If you think India did not deserve winning this world cup , then who deserved it ? 

 

There has to be someone right ? Or are you just going to say

 

"No-one deserves to win this world cup. Every team has weaknesses. No team is flawless and invincible.  Just strip off this edition of the world cup and play it only when a team looks indomitable so that they really deserve winning this. " 

England deserves to win it cause they got the best team in these conditions. If you look at them 4 years back they changed as the team the most. They got a solid batting line up consisting of dangerous hitters. Even if there top order is down they can bat very fast. There bowling line up is not bad either. To me this team is the most balanced. 

 

I had to tell you that cause you kept saying I was biased due to me supporting the green team. Which was your way of deflating the main problem with your team.

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