Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Khota

After 2 Day Cool Off I Blame Shastri For This Loss

Recommended Posts

Instaed of putting a rash post I decided to wait. The loss of this game is on Shastri and Shastri alone.

Reasons:

(1) India lost to NZ in warm ups

(2) Could not play Boult then

(3) No correction was done for the team to counter Bolt

(4) Rinse and Repeat - Same result

(5) Showed no respect to NZ

(6) Started to look aead to England game

(7) No coaching /No Leadership

(8) Coaching 101 - Respect your opponents

(9)Leech

(10) Not fit to be a coach

(11) Do you think even Zimbabwe would higher him as a coach?

 

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Khota said:

Instaed of putting a rash post I decided to wait. The loss of this game is on Shastri and Shastri alone.

Reasons:

(1) India lost to NZ in warm ups

(2) Could not play Boult then

(3) No correction was done for the team to counter Bolt

(4) Rinse and Repeat - Same result

(5) Showed no respect to NZ

(6) Started to look aead to England game

(7) No coaching /No Leadership

(8) Coaching 101 - Respect your opponents

(9)Leech

(10) Not fit to be a coach

(11) Do you think even Zimbabwe would higher him as a coach?

 

India didn't just lose the warm up, it was a sound thrashing. This is why when people were happy about us facing NZ instead of England, I didn't share that enthusiasm. We lost to England too, but at-least didn't get humiliated like against NZ. Yes, the final margin of defeat against NZ doesn't seem much but it is only due to Jadeja's once in a lifetime innings which came when the game had already gone away from us. What did batting coach Sanjay Bangar and bewda do as the match got moved to the next day? They had all the time in the world to strategize and practice batting. But obviously they didn't do anything purposeful otherwise we wouldn't have been 3 down for next to nothing. Shastri is only good for bragging and bluster, not much else. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, nevada said:

India didn't just lose the warm up, it was a sound thrashing. This is why when people were happy about us facing NZ instead of England, I didn't share that enthusiasm. We lost to England too, but at-least didn't get humiliated like against NZ. Yes, the final margin of defeat against NZ doesn't seem much but it is only due to Jadeja's once in a lifetime innings which came when the game had already gone away from us. What did batting coach Sanjay Bangar and bewda do as the match got moved to the next day? They had all the time in the world to strategize and practice batting. But obviously they didn't do anything purposeful otherwise we wouldn't have been 3 down for next to nothing. Shastri is only good for bragging and bluster, not much else. 

It is always on coaching to correct mistakes. None of that happened.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, The Realist said:

Bangar the batting coach is useless. Same old age problems against swing not been addressed. Allegedly the players don't rate him & seek out others for batting advice. 

It is not really his fault but that of BCCI for selecting him. It is not surprising if the players didn't trust him much. To me, he does not seem tactically/technically sound enough (unlike some coaches were very good at it despite being so-so cricketers) nor was he a sufficiently good cricketer at the int'l level to have direct batting experience to draw upon - he has just one 50 in Tests and one in ODIs that is "memorable" to me.

Share this post


Link to post

Yaar ab Bangar pe please bill mat fado...

 

I think the biggest reason for our loss is King Kohli,

I don't remember any other captain who was as powerful as he is, in the sense that he is captaining when BCCI is very weak and he runs the show but still 

1) Backed wrong coach

2) Backed Rayudu, Kedar, Dhoni n co

3) Didn't groom anyone in middle order after champion trophy loss

4) He looks more interested in PR bazi than batting

5)

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, Rookie123 said:

Yaar ab Bangar pe please bill mat fado...

 

I think the biggest reason for our loss is King Kohli,

I don't remember any other captain who was as powerful as he is, in the sense that he is captaining when BCCI is very weak and he runs the show but still 

1) Backed wrong coach

2) Backed Rayudu, Kedar, Dhoni n co

3) Didn't groom anyone in middle order after champion trophy loss

4) He looks more interested in PR bazi than batting

5)

Did not groom middle order was also a big problem.

Share this post


Link to post

No fan of Bewda here. But cricket is, by and large, more dominated by the captain than by the coach (there are some exceptions of course). First, I blame selectors as well as Kohli/Bewda (because they probably have some input) for atrocious and muddled selection. Second, I blame Kohli for even failing to make the use of the 15 he was provided. So, overall - combining 1 and 2 - I'd say that Ratman is the No. 1 culprit.

Share this post


Link to post

Blame starts with Captain..........Coach cant do much after a point. No coach tells to get out or a player wants but its the execution. Coaching at international level is more about mental and side and few technical tweaking. U can change much of technique at this level. And fixing these problem take hell of time not 2-3 days. Kohli is to be blamed for insecure environment develop among youngsters and having a inconsistent selection policy. At one side we say shastri is a yes man on other putting all blame on him. We lost even under kumble in CT ......The problem was same Kohli the Captain.

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Blame starts with Captain..........Coach cant do much after a point. No coach tells to get out or a player wants but its the execution. Coaching at international level is more about mental and side and few technical tweaking. U can change much of technique at this level. And fixing these problem take hell of time not 2-3 days. Kohli is to be blamed for insecure environment develop among youngsters and having a inconsistent selection policy. At one side we say shastri is a yes man on other putting all blame on him. We lost even under kumble in CT ......The problem was same Kohli the Captain.

All valid points.

 

Kohli shares the blame too but as a coach he should have fixed the problem or atleast focussed on preparing the team to just play out Boult.

 

Kohli is a arrogant prick. He should be stripped of captaincy in atleast two fomats.

 

This was India's WC to lose and they did.

Share this post


Link to post
47 minutes ago, Khota said:

All valid points.

 

Kohli shares the blame too but as a coach he should have fixed the problem or atleast focussed on preparing the team to just play out Boult.

Fixed what problem????

 

Problem of our players against seam n swing. Rohit has been vunerable to that for 10 yrs.....count the number coaches he played under and none cant improve. Coz such thing cant be improved after a point at this level. Thats why he has been such a fail in test cricket. Blame every coach then

 

Problem of Rahul- he has been struggling with his technique for 2 yrs now....he even went back to dravid. But these thing take a lot of time to change. Blame dravid to 

 

Problem of kohli is mental- he has such a great volume of runs overseas in test the reason he fails in knocouts is more mental.

 

To be honest coach cant be blamed for this, he or anyone cant help much. How many coaches will we blame. In international cricket coaching is overrated after a point. He is more of a man manager . Ppl need to understand such problem takes months and months to improve. Kohli n Rohit had same issue when they failed in CT 2017 Final coach when kumble was the coach. 

 

Quote

Kohli is a arrogant prick. He should be stripped of captaincy in atleast two fomats.

More the arrogance he just doesnt have the quality to captain in LOI 

Quote

This was India's WC to lose and they did.

It was a Wc for top 4 teams to win and any team can win on given day . None had a major diff among them. They all had their share of strength n weakness....none was at level of Aus or WI of past so it was never our Wc

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Fixed what problem????

 

Problem of our players against seam n swing. Rohit has been vunerable to that for 10 yrs.....count the number coaches he played under and none cant improve. Coz such thing cant be improved after a point at this level. Thats why he has been such a fail in test cricket. Blame every coach then

 

Problem of Rahul- he has been struggling with his technique for 2 yrs now....he even went back to dravid. But these thing take a lot of time to change. Blame dravid to 

 

Problem of kohli is mental- he has such a great volume of runs overseas in test the reason he fails in knocouts is more mental.

 

To be honest coach cant be blamed for this, he or anyone cant help much. How many coaches will we blame. In international cricket coaching is overrated after a point. He is more of a man manager . Ppl need to understand such problem takes months and months to improve. Kohli n Rohit had same issue when they failed in CT 2017 Final coach when kumble was the coach. 

 

More the arrogance he just doesnt have the quality to captain in LOI 

It was a Wc for top 4 teams to win and any team can win on given day . None had a major diff among them. They all had their share of strength n weakness....none was at level of Aus or WI of past so it was never our Wc

They could have minimized the risk against Boult. No shots, no boundaries etc. Lineuo could have Jadhav in there another true batsman.

 

Coach has a great role to play if is capable of coaching. Read about Belichick and see how these coaches start their day at 5 am in the morning and go to bed at midnight planning and plotting going thru details etc. Coaching has everythngto do with it.

 

I personally felt India was the best team in this WC and should have won it all. They just had a mismatch against Boult and could not overcome it. A very fixable problem.

Share this post


Link to post

Why is there no condemnation here of Tendulkar, Gangully and Laxman when  they picked Shastri when better candidates were available ?

If you look at the whole set up of Indian cricket, whether selection , coaching. Committees , just because you could play test cricket it doesn't automatically mean you are qualified to do anything else . 

 

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Why is there no condemnation here of Tendulkar, Gangully and Laxman when  they picked Shastri when better candidates were available ?

If you look at the whole set up of Indian cricket, whether selection , coaching. Committees , just because you could play test cricket it doesn't automatically mean you are qualified to do anything else . 

 

There is and a vocal one too. Go thru the threads and you will see remarks directed against these characters. They are responsible for putting this leech incharge and they share the blame.

 

I dislike Dhonis presence but he was not the root cause of the loss.

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, Khota said:

They could have minimized the risk against Boult. No shots, no boundaries etc. Lineuo could have Jadhav in there another true batsman.

Isnt that what is suppose to happen in test cricket yet rahul has been struggling for that in an year and rohit ever since

Remind me when jadhav has done well in such situation. Everyone was a true batsman who wud have he come in for. 

 

Easy to say and everyone sitting out looks good but lets not forget when they were in same situation they failed as well. Jadhav also failed in struggling situation. We have already played very cautiously ....its was just great bowling and nervous batting 

24 minutes ago, Khota said:

 

Coach has a great role to play if is capable of coaching. Read about Belichick and see how these coaches start their day at 5 am in the morning and go to bed at midnight planning and plotting going thru details etc. Coaching has everythngto do with it.

Yea as is coach in opp camp dont plan n plot at the only one wins. Both teams come up with plan.....but good planning does ensure good execution. No coach tells to get out.....neither a player wants to just a split of second misjudgment is all it takes. 

24 minutes ago, Khota said:

 

I personally felt India was the best team in this WC and should have won it all. They just had a mismatch against Boult and could not overcome it. A very fixable problem.

How did u feel that ??

When u thought we are not even playing the right team ???

Yea fixable problem doesnt mean boult is less of a bowler.....he will have his days. We play Mohd amir well on 8 out 10 days but he ll have his 2 days and those 1 one of those was CT final. Boult is a Wc class bowler and he will have his day and we have to give credit to opposition at times. Fixable doesnt mean ull score every day . These were Ideal conditions for boult...and conditions play huge role unlike other sports 

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Why is there no condemnation here of Tendulkar, Gangully and Laxman when  they picked Shastri when better candidates were available ?

Ganguly for sure didnt wanted to pick him..........he doesnt like shastri at all. It was kohli's n tendulkar choice

Laxman always wants moody 

 

If ganguly got his choice of coach.....why shudnt kohli 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Ganguly for sure didnt wanted to pick him..........he doesnt like shastri at all. It was kohli's n tendulkar choice

Laxman always wants moody 

 

If ganguly got his choice of coach.....why shudnt kohli 

 

if your theory is correct then a committee of three each had a  different choice of coach , each coach would have been voted down 2-1 I assume , so they go back to BCCI and say we can't agree , who tell them agree .

Shastri is picked , so one of Ganguly or Laxman changed their mind and voted for Shastri . 

I am not aware that Kohli was part of this committee to choose coach but you can correct me if wrong . 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

if your theory is correct then a committee of three each had a  different choice of coach , each coach would have been voted down 2-1 I assume , so they go back to BCCI and say we can't agree , who tell them agree .

Shastri is picked , so one of Ganguly or Laxman changed their mind and voted for Shastri . 

I am not aware that Kohli was part of this committee to choose coach but you can correct me if wrong . 

In Indian cricket its the captain thats always most powerful

When Chappell was choose it was ganguly insistance whereas their was a committee . I think they wud hve said ok its didnt work with our choice kumble lets gve kohli what he wants and when he doesnt get result he wont have anyone to blame

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

In Indian cricket its the captain thats always most powerful

When Chappell was choose it was ganguly insistance whereas their was a committee . I think they wud hve said ok its didnt work with our choice kumble lets gve kohli what he wants and when he doesnt get result he wont have anyone to blame

I know Indian cricket 

So what you are saying is that the three man committee with a job description of pick new coach was really a sham because it was just what the captain wanted that mattered ? 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

I know Indian cricket 

So what you are saying is that the three man committee with a job description of pick new coach was really a sham because it was just what the captain wanted that mattered ? 

Well they did pick their choice 1st time didnt go well with captain so second time kohli won 

Wasnt the sham clear when those choose dravid as batting coach n Zak as bowling and that was changed in no time

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Well they did pick their choice 1st time didnt go well with captain so second time kohli won 

Wasnt the sham clear when those choose dravid as batting coach n Zak as bowling and that was changed in no time

So the answer is a clear job description for everyone from BCCI downward and accountability or captain gets what he wants and lots of jobs for the boys and don't rock the boat and upset the gravy train . Everybody have a hissy fit every 2 years for a couple days then back to the status quo ..rinse and repeat .

 

Share this post


Link to post
40 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

I know Indian cricket 

So what you are saying is that the three man committee with a job description of pick new coach was really a sham because it was just what the captain wanted that mattered ? 

It is a sham and a fraud on the public. Egomaniac Kohli has a say and that is  a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
34 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

I am the biggest shastri hater but i dont blame him for this loss,our openers failed 1 game and unfortunately it was in the semis.

That is a small part of the story. It was on coach to get the middle order going and he did not. You are a Cowboys fan and you know a thing or two about coaching.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Isnt that what is suppose to happen in test cricket yet rahul has been struggling for that in an year and rohit ever since

Remind me when jadhav has done well in such situation. Everyone was a true batsman who wud have he come in for. 

 

Easy to say and everyone sitting out looks good but lets not forget when they were in same situation they failed as well. Jadhav also failed in struggling situation. We have already played very cautiously ....its was just great bowling and nervous batting 

Yea as is coach in opp camp dont plan n plot at the only one wins. Both teams come up with plan.....but good planning does ensure good execution. No coach tells to get out.....neither a player wants to just a split of second misjudgment is all it takes. 

How did u feel that ??

When u thought we are not even playing the right team ???

Yea fixable problem doesnt mean boult is less of a bowler.....he will have his days. We play Mohd amir well on 8 out 10 days but he ll have his 2 days and those 1 one of those was CT final. Boult is a Wc class bowler and he will have his day and we have to give credit to opposition at times. Fixable doesnt mean ull score every day . These were Ideal conditions for boult...and conditions play huge role unlike other sports 

And how does anyone know that Jadhav would not have excelled. The point is that this team missed two genuine batsman in the middle order.

 

Ofcourse everone is planning and executing but Shastri did not, That is on him.

 

Boult is a great bowler and other teams have negated him. NZ was not 10 ft tall and it was a easily beatable team.

 

I always felt Shankar was a wasted spot but the team was good enough to win it all.

Share this post


Link to post
And how does anyone know that Jadhav would not have excelled. The point is that this team missed two genuine batsman in the middle order.
 
Ofcourse everone is planning and executing but Shastri did not, That is on him.
 
Boult is a great bowler and other teams have negated him. NZ was not 10 ft tall and it was a easily beatable team.
 
I always felt Shankar was a wasted spot but the team was good enough to win it all.
Yup they made jadav scapegoat to save Dhoni for England game.Jadav batted pretty well vs Afg

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Khota said:

And how does anyone know that Jadhav would not have excelled. The point is that this team missed two genuine batsman in the middle order.

Has he till now in his career?? No

Has he ever in this situtaion ??? No 

So high chances he wont have neither does he have a great technique for such situation . Yea they cud have played him for karthik who cant bat , bowl or field but still wont have changed anything

 

Ur saying we lacked genuine batsman .........6 out 7 were genuine batsman and the one who scored was not 

Quote

 

Ofcourse everone is planning and executing but Shastri did not, That is on him.

how do u knw ?

Quote

 

Boult is a great bowler and other teams have negated him. NZ was not 10 ft tall and it was a easily beatable team.

Not every day he will have his day 

Quote

 

I always felt Shankar was a wasted spot but the team was good enough to win it all.

shankar didnt even play in semi final ......so what are u complaining about

And shaknar twice played good knock in similar situation n earned his place.

Acc to karthik wud have done well.....did he ??? no na 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Has he till now in his career?? No

Has he ever in this situtaion ??? No 

So high chances he wont have neither does he have a great technique for such situation . Yea they cud have played him for karthik who cant bat , bowl or field but still wont have changed anything

 

Ur saying we lacked genuine batsman .........6 out 7 were genuine batsman and the one who scored was not 

how do u knw ?

Not every day he will have his day 

shankar didnt even play in semi final ......so what are u complaining about

And shaknar twice played good knock in similar situation n earned his place.

Acc to karthik wud have done well.....did he ??? no na 

 

Jadhav has done fine within the framework he got chances in.

 

karthik I have supported and still support comes in my team as a wkt/kpr batsman.

 

Shankar did what I expected him to do. Nothing.

 

As far as not doing fine there were plenty who did not so dont blame Kartik.

 

It was on this manhoos Shastri to groom middle order batsman and he did not. That was the game right there. Few more runs and would have been lifting the WC today.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Khota said:

Jadhav has done fine within the framework he got chances in.

remind me when has he done well in such situation when ball is jagging around 

Just now, Khota said:

 

karthik I have supported and still support comes in my team as a wkt/kpr batsman.

 

Shankar did what I expected him to do. Nothing.

and karthik did what he has been doing for 14 yrs.......wasting his talent

Just now, Khota said:

As far as not doing fine there were plenty who did not so dont blame Kartik.

well other did something at some team

Pant n pandya did better and pandya bowls to 

Kohli, rohit , rahul has made runs whole Wc

Dhoni for his bad innings atleast made more runs then karthik 

Just now, Khota said:

It was on this manhoos Shastri to groom middle order batsman and he did not. That was the game right there. Few more runs and would have been lifting the WC today.

how can he groom if captain doesnt have patience to stick to a player and keeps selecting wrong player. Kumble was their one year....shastri hasnt been coach ever since our number 4 has been their what did kumble do 

 

Blaming coach is irrelevant.......its on kohli to start with big time

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

remind me when has he done well in such situation when ball is jagging around 

and karthik did what he has been doing for 14 yrs.......wasting his talent

well other did something at some team

Pant n pandya did better and pandya bowls to 

Kohli, rohit , rahul has made runs whole Wc

Dhoni for his bad innings atleast made more runs then karthik 

how can he groom if captain doesnt have patience to stick to a player and keeps selecting wrong player. Kumble was their one year....shastri hasnt been coach ever since our number 4 has been their what did kumble do 

 

Blaming coach is irrelevant.......its on kohli to start with big time

You will never get it. It is all on the coach. If he could not tame Kohli he should not have taken the job.

Edited by Khota

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Khota said:

You will never get it. It is all on the coach. If he could not tame Kohli he should not have taken the job.

He got the job coz he was a yes man to kohli 

Anyways coach's job is to support captain not tame him. Cricket always have been a captains game

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

He got the job coz he was a yes man to kohli 

Anyways coach's job is to support captain not tame him. Cricket always have been a captains game

And that is not a qualification or the job description.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
×
×
  • Create New...