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Ben Stokes - hero of WC 2019

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2 minutes ago, zen said:

Man of the tournament in my book!

I wonder who is 1st on the ICC points system. I thought it was Shakib? I am not sure if Stokes is MoT but he was by far the best middle order batsman in the WC. His bowling was mostly invisible though.

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Had doubts about him, but match winner, world.cup.winner!!

 

We.keep comparing Pandya to him, I know Pandya doesn't bat as high, but Pandya got.nothing.on Stokes. You want to be considered half.decent then emulate some of the guts Stokes shows.in England colours 

 

Hopefully this WC 2019.puts to rest any special expectations from Pandya. 

 

Btw, even Hardik Pandya's.poistion in the team.is up.for debate 

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2 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

What a champion performance. People should stop comparing Pandya with Stokes.

Stokes has been nurtured well by Eng, which Ind did not do with Pandya. However, I reckon that Stokes still has a much more complete game than Pandu with the bat; in ODIs, they are comparable with the ball.

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7 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Stokes has been nurtured well by Eng, which Ind did not do with Pandya. However, I reckon that Stokes still has a much more complete game than Pandu with the bat; in ODIs, they are comparable with the ball.

Pandya's time will come too .... He is constantly improving, one of the reasons why I want him to play in more formats :dance: 

 

Edited by zen

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1 minute ago, zen said:

Pandya's time will come too .... He is constantly improving, one of the reasons why I want him to play in more formats :dance: 

 

He has not improved that much from what I have seen. for instance, I think Stokes would have pulled Ind over the line in company of Dhongi and Jaddu, which Pandu did not do. Of course, there is some age diff and Pandu has less experience in domestics. let's see how the next few yrs go.

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12 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

What a champion performance. People should stop comparing Pandya with Stokes.

There is no comparison as they are not direct competitors. Both bat at different positions and both have different roles.

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Just now, Vijy said:

He has not improved that much from what I have seen. for instance, I think Stokes would have pulled Ind over the line in company of Dhongi and Jaddu, which Pandu did not do. Of course, there is some age diff and Pandu has less experience in domestics. let's see how the next few yrs go.

Stokes in form, plays well under pressure, and many will pick him over any Indian player currently 

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14 minutes ago, chewy said:

Had doubts about him, but match winner, world.cup.winner!!

 

We.keep comparing Pandya to him, I know Pandya doesn't bat as high, but Pandya got.nothing.on Stokes. You want to be considered half.decent then emulate some of the guts Stokes shows.in England colours 

 

Hopefully this WC 2019.puts to rest any special expectations from Pandya. 

 

Btw, even Hardik Pandya's.poistion in the team.is up.for debate 

I think this is second WC for Stokes and both are in different stages of their careers.

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4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

He has not improved that much from what I have seen. for instance, I think Stokes would have pulled Ind over the line in company of Dhongi and Jaddu, which Pandu did not do. Of course, there is some age diff and Pandu has less experience in domestics. let's see how the next few yrs go.

Stokes could have done that because Stokes has experience of Batting in such situations. Pandya is essentially there to play some quickfire cameos. Though at 24/4, I don't think even Stokes could have done that.

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Just now, rkt.india said:

Stokes could have done that because Stokes has experience of Batting in such situations. Pandya is essentially there to play some quickfire cameos. Though at 24/4, I don't think even Stokes could have done that.

I am not saying he could have solo-ed it. Would have still required the likes of Greybeard to hold an end up and someone like Jaddu to deliver the finishing blows. What I meant to say is that he could have played better than Pandu and thereby enabled us to win that SF. Anyway, it's a moot point since we can only make do with what we have.

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22 minutes ago, Pollack said:

@sandeep. :rotfl:

 Stokes twice the all-rounder than Pandya. :hatsoff:

Add  Neesham too. He thinks like he is the only true patriot and sports fan. Uses words like trundlers etc for guys like Henry and thinks Bhuvi is this amazing bowler when even Henry is twice the bowler that Boobi Kumar is

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10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

There is no comparison as they are not direct competitors. Both bat at different positions and both have different roles.

That’s because Pandya is neither a batsman or a bowler. So what about Woakes? Would you pick Pandya over him?

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

That’s because Pandya is neither a batsman or a bowler. So what about Woakes? Would you pick Pandya over him?

Pandya is nowhere stokes atm but so are 90 percent of Indian cricketers right now so why single him out ?

If we consider all 3 formats ,even rohit sharma ,dhawan (our odi greats) will fall short of stokes !

 

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3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Add  Neesham too. He thinks like he is the only true patriot and sports fan. Uses words like trundlers etc for guys like Henry and thinks Bhuvi is this amazing bowler when even Henry is twice the bowler that Boobi Kumar is

I support Pandya too. He is the best close to all-rounder we got. Stokes is more talented than Pandya. For a start, Stokes is a proper batsman. Pandya has some potential but still mostly a slogger. Though he is improving a lot.

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I support Pandya too. He is the best close to all-rounder we got. Stokes is more talented than Pandya. For a start, Stokes is a proper batsman. Pandya has some potential but still mostly a slogger. Though he is improving a lot.
Stokes has his weakness against spin but he is good tough english batting all-rounder.

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1 minute ago, Pollack said:

I support Pandya too. He is the best close to all-rounder we got. Stokes is more talented than Pandya. For a start, Stokes is a proper batsman. Pandya has some potential but still mostly a slogger. Though he is improving a lot.

Ben Stokes has already been a man of the tournament in IPL,hit a 200 in SA etc 2 years back. We are still talking about Pandya’s potential 3-4 years since his debut and playing in all formats 

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1 minute ago, CG said:
3 minutes ago, Pollack said:
I support Pandya too. He is the best close to all-rounder we got. Stokes is more talented than Pandya. For a start, Stokes is a proper batsman. Pandya has some potential but still mostly a slogger. Though he is improving a lot.

Stokes has his weakness against spin but he is good tough english batting all-rounder.

Has a  test 100 in subcontinent vs Ash-Jaddu 

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1 minute ago, CG said:
2 minutes ago, maniac said:
Has a  test 100 in subcontinent vs Ash-Jaddu 

Lol in that series everybody scored tons.

Cmon man you want to downplay it? Still what so many SENA batsman failed to do it in the past on great pitches 

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Just now, Moochad said:

MoM for England, but don't understate Butler's role here. Stokes was able to play through to the end because Butler had a run a ball 50 from the other end. Both were key for England today!

Thala was getting praised for holding one end up for Jaddu, why can’t Stokes get praise for doing the job way better 

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10 minutes ago, maniac said:

Thala was getting praised for holding one end up for Jaddu, why can’t Stokes get praise for doing the job way better 

I didn't say Stokes doesn't deserve praise, I called him MoM in my post, but it is underselling what happened in the match if we say he single handedly took England to victory. 

 

Butler looked like he was batting on a different pitch than everyone else in the game. He had a run a ball strike rate and scored 59 when England were 4 down for less than 100. Stokes deserves credit for finishing the game, but Butler's inning was as irreplaceable as anyone's today.   

 

No one else scored at over 86 strike rate

Edited by Moochad

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26 minutes ago, Moochad said:

I didn't say Stokes doesn't deserve praise, I called him MoM in my post, but it is underselling what happened in the match if we say he single handedly took England to victory. 

 

Butler looked like he was batting on a different pitch than everyone else in the game. He had a run a ball strike rate and scored 59 when England were 4 down for less than 100. Stokes deserves credit for finishing the game, but Butler's inning was as irreplaceable as anyone's today.   

 

No one else scored at over 86 strike rate

buttler is an otherworldy talent like abdv, but is less susceptible to choking.

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definitely ...  Stokes played some of the best impact inns of this world cup of which  the highlight was the knock in the final. THough the likes of Rohit ,Warner were the top scorers numerically , the impact of his knocks makes  Stokes one of the front runners for the 'best batsman title'  of this world cup. But his bowling was a bit off.

 

As for Stokes-Pandya , I think we need to be patient with Pandya.  He is far lesser experienced when compared  to Stokes and that showed.More over , the  interference of that ugly parasite  edulji  deprived him of valuable experience  by making him  miss  8 matches in AUS+NZL combined.That would have made him   a lot  more equipped to handle these ENG conditions .In hindsight of that mere 18 runs loss in semi , who knows India wouldn't have won the trophy  had Pandya not missed 'those 8 matches on the trot'??

 

Any way , the talent is there.He would definitely  improve with experience.

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In terms of impact player. Stokes is a match winner.

 

Long back, I said, Stokes is far far ahead from rest of pack of allrounder. I will say Shakib is now as good as Stokes. May be touch better in odis. Some projected names of Cummins/Pattison/Pandya/Windies hacks.

 

But Overall, Stokes has zero competition.

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15 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Stokes could have done that because Stokes has experience of Batting in such situations. Pandya is essentially there to play some quickfire cameos. Though at 24/4, I don't think even Stokes could have done that.

yes , if you exclude the obvious skill mismatch . Pandya may do better in future , but hes never going to be as good a bat as stokes .

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18 hours ago, Vijy said:

buttler is an otherworldy talent like abdv, but is less susceptible to choking.

Yes hes very talented, but I wouldn't compare him to ABDV. At least in IPL teams have gotten him early by bringing on a spinner. I think Kiwis missed a trick by not bowling spin to him early. 

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On 7/14/2019 at 12:47 PM, chewy said:

Had doubts about him, but match winner, world.cup.winner!!

 

We.keep comparing Pandya to him, I know Pandya doesn't bat as high, but Pandya got.nothing.on Stokes. You want to be considered half.decent then emulate some of the guts Stokes shows.in England colours 

 

Hopefully this WC 2019.puts to rest any special expectations from Pandya. 

 

Btw, even Hardik Pandya's.poistion in the team.is up.for debate 

Pandya is not fit enough to lick Stokes auss! He has a long way to go. Woh “kar” payega Kya?

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19 hours ago, jusarrived said:

yes , if you exclude the obvious skill mismatch . Pandya may do better in future , but hes never going to be as good a bat as stokes .

Neither bat, nor bowler

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On 7/15/2019 at 12:48 AM, maniac said:

Ben Stokes has already been a man of the tournament in IPL,hit a 200 in SA etc 2 years back. We are still talking about Pandya’s potential 3-4 years since his debut and playing in all formats 

At similar stage of their careers

Pandya 54 ODIs, 38 innings, 957 runs@30, SR of 116, 54 wickets@41

Stokes, after 38 inings of batting, 886 runs@25, SR of 94, 53 wickets@38

 

In Tests

Pandya 11 Tests, 532 runs@31, 17 wkts@31

Stokes(after 11 tests), 683 runs@34, 29 wkts@43

 

I can't really see any difference in those numbers. 

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59 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Stokes is just fine as a bowler , he may be better than Pandya atm but the gap is not as big as their batting . 

lets not go by stats as they are misleading, For example MSD played at comparable S/R and very good RR but still India lost many games because of his batting. I follow both English team and Indian team.

 

Stokes scores all around the ground and his shots are based on timing. Pandya currently relies on throwing the bat at every delivery. hence as a fan,  You can rely on Stokes to win the game for you as he is as good as any proper batsman. Pandya is hack +. He hasnt got same survival and strike rotation technique as Stokes. (Put timing and stroke play and defense and strike rotation criteria to Judge upon  and you will see why Pant isnt doing well, Hackism works and Shahid Afridi gets a fastest cenury, but he was never relied upon apart from couple of peak years)

 

For bowling, Stokes is proper bowler too. he can swing, reverse swing, accurate line and gets wickets when batsman dont want to get out. So he is as good as second bowler in Indian team. If he was part of Indian team , I wouldn't be surprised if he opened bowling with Bhumrah. On contrary, Pandya gets wickets like Ali bhai gets the wickets. i.e. Batsmen are relaxed and are attacking him to get few runs and in process throw their wicket.

Edited by mishra

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