How do we find a strong middle order batsman?

[retired_hurt]

We are selecting top run scorers from Ranji and list A matches, who are usually top order batsmen and rely on timing and lack the brute power, then these batsmen are made to play in the middle order in the indian team where they fail to adapt to the new challenges.

 

Its rinse and repeat with different players and our middle order is never settled. 

 

Shouldnt the strike rate and power hitting be a criteria while selecting players for middle and lower order? Have we got any such power hitters in our domestic set up?

[Vijy]

27 minutes ago, retired_hurt said:

We are selecting top run scorers from Ranji and list A matches, who are usually top order batsmen and rely on timing and lack the brute power, then these batsmen are made to play in the middle order in the indian team where they fail to adapt to the new challenges.

 

Its rinse and repeat with different players and our middle order is never settled. 

 

Shouldnt the strike rate and power hitting be a criteria while selecting players for middle and lower order? Have we got any such power hitters in our domestic set up?

power-hitters or fast scorers in middle order in domestic lack ability to play longer innings or buckle down in challenging conditions (like SF vs NZ) and vice-versa.

[Sandeep99]

By trying new guys.

[Cricket_Fan]

10 hours ago, retired_hurt said:

We are selecting top run scorers from Ranji and list A matches, who are usually top order batsmen and rely on timing and lack the brute power, then these batsmen are made to play in the middle order in the indian team where they fail to adapt to the new challenges.

 

Its rinse and repeat with different players and our middle order is never settled. 

 

Shouldnt the strike rate and power hitting be a criteria while selecting players for middle and lower order? Have we got any such power hitters in our domestic set up?

Power hitting alone wont work in ODI. West Indies is the best example. You need the ability to rotate the strike and have temperament to play long innings. Currently, our best bet is Shreyas Iyer.

[-Robin-]

Remove kohli as captain, shastri as coach and drop dhoni. Half of the problems will be solved of this team.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Give time to players....stop calling them failures after 5-10 games

Dont forget guys like rohit, yuvraj took 5-6 yrs ...... Players take time to evolve 

[jf1gp_1]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Give time to players....stop calling them failures after 5-10 games

Dont forget guys like rohit, yuvraj took 5-6 yrs ...... Players take time to evolve 

Exactly. 

Also every time we get a good start virat needs to push no 4 or 5 at 3. Those guys need game time to atleast show their talent or lack of it. SA of past used to do it so often. 

[cricketfan28]

have to make domestic pitches more bowling friendly not sure how we can do that.

[prasen82]

Kohli has to think about team than his endorsements.. then things will fall in place. Very few gentlemen like dravid in today's setup. Kohli and shastri have brought politics of the lowest order to the team.

[vayuu1]

Remove Kohli as Captain, he just don't have patience 

[cricketfan28]

we should also look at importing if needed.

[kirkutfan]

Maybe play all 3 openers- Dhawan, Rohit, Rahul for the first 3 slots; Kohli comes in at 4. 

[Vijy]

12 hours ago, cricketfan28 said:

we should also look at importing if needed.

yes, get the likes of stokes to play for Ind. he already moved from NZ to Eng, so he should not object too much to another move especially if the price is right.

[Moochad]

Best case in ODIs is to move Kohli to 4 and rest 1 of Rohit/Dhawan in more matches this would let our 2nd opener and number 3 batsman get more practice and lets us find a middle order batsmen faster. 

[diehardpacer]

For no 4,pick a player who can hit 4s easily by picking gaps with less risks.Strike rotation is necessary but boundaries are more important.Better technique against both spinners & pacers is needed so they don't get stuck in crease.

Gill should be tried at 4.Or,Kohli should move himself to 4. 

I don't buy the logic of giving players long ropes of 30-40 games blindly. Both Rayudu & Jadhav were given way too many chances.

If you are giving that many chances,atleast give it to the right player.

From no 5,it should be all rounders/WK.If we don't get any suitable players,Jadeja should be tried there.

[prudent_kreeda]

If you look at the best middle order(4,5,6)  , we see 3 types of players who have done very well :- 

 

1. batsmen with very good defense (never easily gets out) , good /excellent runner and rotates the strike well and a gap finder  rather than Big Power hitter :-   Likes of Bevan, Dravid, Miyandad , Sanga , Mahela

2. batsmen with good defense , good/excellent runner and rotates the strike well and has power game to change gears  :-   Likes of  MSD, Inzy(running is exception) , Richie Richardson , Stokes , Yuvi, 

3. Power hitters - Botham, Kapil, Buttler , Razzak, 

 

What it shows , middle order ( 4 & 5) can accommodate first 2 types of players . They need not be big Power hitters . 

Now selectors should identify who among the probables fit the above 2 category . 

Players as of now may not have all these qualities but if they show signs of majority of  these skills we need to back such players for 4 & 5. 

AT 4 have category 1 type of players :-  Gill, KL, Ruturaj Gaikwad , Mayank , Iyer (lacks consistency) - can be contenders

AT 5  have category  2 type players :-  Pant, Samson, Hardik -  can be contenders 

 

Selectors should opt for a guy with good technique and good defence at 4 . Find out the best 2 for no.4 , rest of those tried at 4  can now be considered at No.5 . KL & Iyer can easily make No. 5 if they do not come at top 2 at no.4 if they improve their consistency as they have the game to change gears with big shots .

From the pool at No.5 , find the top 2 best fits for No.5  and guys who do not come within top 2 at no.5 can be contenders at no.6 . Pant & Hardik can easily  make it No. 6  if they do not make the top 2 best fits at No.5 .

No.7 should be a spinning All rounder /Power hitter for India - Jadeja , Abhishek , Sundar could be contenders.

 

To check properly  best fits for 4, 5, & 6 will take atleast 2-3 years even if we start now. 

Selectors need to

1. identify the best pool for 4, 5 & 6 - atleast 2 players to start with for each of these position. Make it clear the to the players for which position hey are primarily looking them for . That will help players to think about the way they should aspire to bat. 

2.  Give them at least  10 games on trot at a particular position. 

3. Push no. 4  to number 3 & 5 to No.4  if match situation allows that  else they will never bat in most of the matches . 

4. If someone does not do well that well at 4 , test him at 5  if he has the game to change gears with big shots . 

5. If not the best fit at 5 , test them at no.6 .

 Your pool should be about 7 to 10 max for these 3 positions and not trying 15-18 guys randomly. 

 

My first picks for No. 4 would be - Mayank, Gill , Ruturaj .

No. 5 -  KL, Samson, Hardik ( want him to play long and become a permanent top 6 batter) so that we will have an all rounder in top 6 .

No. 6 - Pant 

 

 

[Pollack]

2 hours ago, diehardpacer said:

For no 4,pick a player who can hit 4s easily by picking gaps with less risks.Strike rotation is necessary but boundaries are more important.Better technique against both spinners & pacers is needed so they don't get stuck in crease.

Gill should be tried at 4.Or,Kohli should move himself to 4. 

I don't buy the logic of giving players long ropes of 30-40 games blindly. Both Rayudu & Jadhav were given way too many chances.

If you are giving that many chances,atleast give it to the right player.

From no 5,it should be all rounders/WK.If we don't get any suitable players,Jadeja should be tried there.

Jadeja has one innings wonder in World Cup triggered by Manjrekar's jibe. He will be back to his usual best. Time to move on.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

30 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Jadeja has one innings wonder in World Cup triggered by Manjrekar's jibe. He will be back to his usual best. Time to move on.

Just goes to show how fickle Indian fans can be. A few months ago he was considered useless with the bat with literally no one defending him and after that one innings people think he's good enough to be tried at No. 5. 

[diehardpacer]

1 hour ago, Pollack said:

Jadeja has one innings wonder in World Cup triggered by Manjrekar's jibe. He will be back to his usual best. Time to move on.

I said if we find no one else,then try Jadeja at 5th spot. Since most of our young top order batsman like Gill,Iyer,Shaw,Mayank don't bowl ,it's bad to have another batsman at no 5 who can't bowl at all.Given both T20 & ODI WC will be in India,the likes of Jadeja will be in scheme of things.The other all rounders right now are Pandya Bros ,who are more suited at 6/7.

Edited August 3, 2019 by diehardpacer

[the don]

Manish Pandey is rushed into his strokes against the faster men.
Bad signs.