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Number

Time Pakistan starts thinking practically about Kashmir

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53 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Pakistan and Practicality in the same sentence? 

Lool

Its not that they are not practical.  They are.  They are simply not able to determine their own fate.  If 'peace' is made between India and Pakistan, then how will the Pakistan military mafia justify looting their awaam?  Peace is not an option for the mafia.  That is why they need to keep the awaam brainwashed, by claiming that Indians are Nazis and racist.   If there is even a chance of some peace deal between India and Pakistan, you can bet there will be multiple terrorist attacks all over India, and even Pakistan.  The PakMil mafia has killed its own people innumerable times, to maintain its control over that 'country.  

 

@Number You probably had good intentions when creating this thread -but I will bet a $1000 that no Pakistani will ever have the courage to accept this simple fact.  They cannot - its too powerful an urge to blindly circle the wagons and support the flag and uniform - even if the thug wearing the uniform is slowly sucking the country dry.   Logic can never triumph over the tribal instinct of hating the 'other'.  Its just the human condition.  

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11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Its not that they are not practical.  They are.  They are simply not able to determine their own fate.  If 'peace' is made between India and Pakistan, then how will the Pakistan military mafia justify looting their awaam?  Peace is not an option for the mafia.  That is why they need to keep the awaam brainwashed, by claiming that Indians are Nazis and racist.   If there is even a chance of some peace deal between India and Pakistan, you can bet there will be multiple terrorist attacks all over India, and even Pakistan.  The PakMil mafia has killed its own people innumerable times, to maintain its control over that 'country.  

 

@Number You probably had good intentions when creating this thread -but I will bet a $1000 that no Pakistani will ever have the courage to accept this simple fact.  They cannot - its too powerful an urge to blindly circle the wagons and support the flag and uniform - even if the thug wearing the uniform is slowly sucking the country dry.   Logic can never triumph over the tribal instinct of hating the 'other'.  Its just the human condition.  

It's just our bad luck that we have to deal with an immoral pak army, but maybe a higher power has faith in us that we can overcome this obstacle.

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1 hour ago, Number said:

Ladakh has Buddhists and Shias who will rather die than joining them.

 

Jammu division has 10 districts. It is 70% (Hindu+Sikh) and 30% Muslims. And those 30% Muslims are majority non-Kashmiri muslims who are fiercely loyal to India with so many of them into Army and JnK police.

 

That leaves 10 districts of Valley division. 

Out of which Budgam is again Shia majority district so it hardly sees any uprising or militancy.

 

Then there are 4 districts of North Kashmir - Baramulla, Kupwara, Ganderbal and Bandipora.

This part is adjacent to LoC and major infiltration from Pak happens in this region. Also Kashmiri militants crossed into Pak from this region for training.

Late 90s and early 2000s when this area was infested with Pakistani or Pakistan trained militants we used to suffer casualties on daily basis.

However after 2004 we started to get hold of this area. The militant network collpased. The fencing dragged the infiltration down to very low level hence the training camps too became irrelevant.

Last year Baramulla was  even declared as militancy free district.

While I still think it is not completely militancy free, the support for militants in North Kashmir is very low.

 

Srinagar is the capital and the youth here have progressed due to access to good education and very rarely I see anyone joining militancy from here.

 

That leaves 4 districts in South Kashmir Kulgam, Anantnag, Shopian and Pulwama. Most of the local militants are from this region

(But in terms of numbers they are not even 10% to what it was in North Kashmir in late 90s to early 2000s). But to badluck of Pakistan not even a single district is adjacent to LOC to build a network here.

 

It is a lost battle for Pakistan and they can't even take a centimetre off it by force.

 

While I understand they feel a moral obligation towards Kashmir but they tried in 48,65 and 99 but the local revolt was completely missing to their help. They send their "mujahids" but half of Kashmiris are informers or policemen who kill them.

 

Also If they think they can hold India back by dragging this issue then that theory has also been punctured in the last 15 years while their own economy has fallen into a pit.

 

They should use this opportunity to move on from this obsession which is completely foolish.

Just to add to your google knowledge , Shias are Muslim too. 

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27 minutes ago, First class said:

Just to add to your google knowledge , Shias are Muslim too. 

Shias also know how they are treated in Pakistan.  Most Shias are patriotic towards India.  Most of the muslims who support BJP are Shias.

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28 minutes ago, riya said:

Shias and Ahamedis feel more secure under Hindus than Sunnis...Fact.

 

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Yes they hate Sunnis and don't trust Pakistanis. The Shia board is also pressurizing the BMAC to accept for a grand Mosque in Lucknow in exchange for Ram Mandir. 

Thats quiet funny cause I myself am Shia. Never herd this before till today. :rotfl:

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I think we should put emphasis on our internal matters. 

 

We already have GB which is one of the most beautiful region in sub continent and should look to invest more in our resources. 

 

Need to think strategically now  

Edited by Autonomous

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Forget about Kashmir.

 

99.99999 % Pakistani's are also denial about their religious lineage and true identity - which is that THEY ARE CONVERTS. Their forefathers ( who may have been  Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists..) surrendered to the sword of Islam, enforced by the likes of Babur and Aurangazeb. 

 

This bunch in denial would also deny how and why Sikh Guru Tegh Bahadur was beheaded on Aurangazeb's order for failing to convert.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Tegh_Bahadur

 

They are taught to hero worship barbaric warlords from Central Asia and Afghanistan who invaded and looted small kingdoms of India. 

 

They delibrately turn a blind eye to the fact that they are worshiping warlords who tormented and force converted their ancestors.

 

This is because of the FAKE history taught in their FAKE country.

 

Everything is explained under the garb of  " hum musalmano ne Hindustan par hukumat ke thi 600 saal " - whereas their forefathers were converted slaves of the Central Asian warlords. 

 

Using this moronic garb of religion ( Hum musalmao ne.....) Christian dominated countries like Argentina and Brazil can take credit for British and France colonizing the world and say ( Hum Christiano ne puri duniya pe hukumat ki hai..) .

 

But Brazil and Argentina don't -- because they are not fake countries and have things to be proud of, unlike a terror state that can't make a car of its own 72 years after independence. 

 

All i will say is that..fake countries don't last forever. 72 years is NOT a long time in the history of a nation. Within 25 years - one amputation happened in 1971, a solid background has already been set for the next amputation of the fake nation living in shameless denial about its reality.

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5 hours ago, First class said:

Just to add to your google knowledge , Shias are Muslim too. 

 

5 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Shias are muslims. 

Thanks but I know. Now tell this to your army so that they stop bedmating Sipah E Sahba terrorists who have killed thousands of Shias.

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1 hour ago, Number said:

 

Thanks but I know. Now tell this to your army so that they stop bedmating Sipah E Sahba terrorists who have killed thousands of Shias.

I can’t talk to the army however I can correct you on using the right terminology. 

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7 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Shias are muslims. 

Who hate sunnis mostly and stay away from terrorism in 99% cases, as they are mostly Sunni outfits. The entire reason Awadh is not a state is because Shias would rather be a small minority in a Hindu dominated state than a large minority in a Sunni dominated state. 

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shush,people. Let Pak continue its narrative. Once we demographically ‘Xinjiang’ Kashmir while keep growing the distance between us and them economically, then it will be turn for Baltistan and Gilgit: both of which we can exploit if Pakistan kept up its whole Kashmir narrative. They are now facing the war scenario called ‘Vietnam scenario’, except not at war but in geopolitics. Delicious time for us.

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2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

You are Pakistani Shia. That’s why you don’t know how Indian Shias behave. Look closely. Most Shia dominated districts in India cast its votes for the bjp. 

Well I don’t know much about India so not surprised. This is defiantly interesting information I never knew about.

 

27 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 i will treat you fairly now.

I was wondering when the abuse would stop from your end. Do you know how many nights I thought of you?

 

Lol Just kidding. 

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2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Who hate sunnis mostly and stay away from terrorism in 99% cases, as they are mostly Sunni outfits. The entire reason Awadh is not a state is because Shias would rather be a small minority in a Hindu dominated state than a large minority in a Sunni dominated state. 

I know about this hate towards Sunnies and Shia. And trust me this can become apparent when my house hold gets into a discussion of belief. Because my dad is a Shia and mother a Sunni. I never knew in India this was the reason why Shia’s prefer to be around Hindus.

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42 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

I know about this hate towards Sunnies and Shia. And trust me this can become apparent when my house hold gets into a discussion of belief. Because my dad is a Shia and mother a Sunni. I never knew in India this was the reason why Shia’s prefer to be around Hindus.

The reason is simple. It’s sunnis who are stirring the pot in India, Shias are minding their own business. So Shias feel that by siding with Hindus, they get to mind their business, Hindus mostly mind their own business and are mostly reactionary to Sunni extremism. So by siding with Hindus, they contain the pot stirring and don’t end up as collateral damage, because it blows up as Hindu vs Muslim not Hindu vs Sunni. Same reason they oppose Sunni politics: they feel by supporting sunnis they will only embolden stirring the pot more by Sunnis, so more blowback to Shias and sunnis May get the balls in India to massacre Shias again......

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11 hours ago, riya said:

Shias and Ahamedis feel more secure under Hindus than Sunnis...Fact.

We are not Pakistan. There isn't an organized extermination campaign against Qadianis in India.  Also, in India Dawoodi Bohras and Ismaili Khojas fall under the broader Shia category though the beliefs/practices are vastly different.

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

The reason is simple. It’s sunnis who are stirring the pot in India, Shias are minding their own business. So Shias feel that by siding with Hindus, they get to mind their business, Hindus mostly mind their own business and are mostly reactionary to Sunni extremism. So by siding with Hindus, they contain the pot stirring and don’t end up as collateral damage, because it blows up as Hindu vs Muslim not Hindu vs Sunni. Same reason they oppose Sunni politics: they feel by supporting sunnis they will only embolden stirring the pot more by Sunnis, so more blowback to Shias and sunnis May get the balls in India to massacre Shias again......

Sure there are occasional Shia Sunni flare ups, mainly around Lucknow. But most of those are not just a result of theological differences. The Shias in Awadh were the ruling class. The administrators, the generals, the noblemen,the nawabs, the landowners and the like. The Sunnis were the tillers, the common soldiers and people in the market. The loss of relative standing (and land) to a group that was hitherto an underling coupled with religious difference is the cause of a lot of the friction.

 

Not denying that there are extremist nut cases in India too who consider Shias to be non Muslims and worthy of only extermination. But these are very few and are generally laughed at by their Sunni co-coreligionists.

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One line. Pakistan can not assimilate  PoK Kashmir as the PM of so called their occupied Kashmir will end up in same situation as our Abdullah and Mufti. They haven’t got balls to sell this idea because, occupied Kashmir can take up arms against Pakistani rule. They hasn’t got BJP type leaders.

 

So, it’s going to be tough for them

Edited by mishra

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The Kashmir issue will only be solved with the complete destruction/dissolution of Pakistan. It will be foolish of us to think that Pakistan will accept this and move on. The country where the government is non existent, a country whose entire basis is hating India and Hindus, a country where Military acts as a parallel government and Prime minister is meagre a puppet of Military will not be quiet even if they miraculously manage to capture IOK. In this case i am in full support of BJPs move to scrap article 370 A, this has provoked Pakistan to such an extent that they are literally itching to get back at India, and their lies our opportunity, in this process we might lose civilian lives and incur damage, but this is just what we needed, its Do or Die and we did. Jai Hind!!

Edited by Sean Bradley

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15 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

The Kashmir issue will only be solved with the complete destruction/dissolution of Pakistan. It will be foolish of us to think that Pakistan will accept this and move on. The country where the government is non existent, a country whose entire basis is hating India and Hindus, a country where Military acts as a parallel government and Prime minister is meagre a puppet of Military will not be quiet even if they miraculously manage to capture IOK. In this case i am in full support of BJPs move to scrap article 370 A, this has provoked Pakistan to such an extent that they are literally itching to get back at India, and their lies our opportunity, in this process we might lose civilian lives and incur damage, but this is just what we needed, its Do or Die and we did. Jai Hind!!

Indian Kashmir is not IOK. That’s Pakistani misinformation and propaganda. 

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48 minutes ago, Sean Bradley said:

What is POK then?

India hasnt "occupied" anything. The very definition of India has Kashmir in it because it was legally, proceduraly and documentarily correct. You dont say India occupied Kerala, Indian occupied Uttar Pradesh and so on. These regions/states in itself are very definition and representation India in the eyes of Indians and rest of world.

 

In Case of PoK, there is no documentation/treaty. It is grab of land by force. If India was as powerful as say America or China, It would have bombed Pakistan to its core and UN wont have any moral right to question it.  Pakistan has militarily grabbed a piece of land which in times of piece belongs to us. It has absolutely np procedural or documntary right over it

 

I hope now you understand the difference. Mulo can put the same info in better way

Edited by mishra

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8 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Well I don’t know much about India so not surprised. This is defiantly interesting information I never knew about.

 

I was wondering when the abuse would stop from your end. Do you know how many nights I thought of you?

 

Lol Just kidding. 

We may not agree on a lot, but I gotta give you props for your sense of humor and thick skin.  Kudos Michigan boi.  

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19 hours ago, Number said:

They should use this opportunity to move on from this obsession which is completely foolish.

They can't and won't.

 

The two ideological adhesives that truly bind Pakistanis together are (i) Kashmir Jihad and (ii) Anti-Indianism. Islam alone doesn't work, with all the daily sectarian violence and denouncing of Ahmediyas and what not.

 

Giving up on Kashmir by any govt. will be seen as a sign of major weakness and possibly the end of their political career in Pakistan. So civilians and army are in this together. 

 

Expecting practicality and rationality from padosis is a pipe dream. 

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59 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

They can't and won't.

 

The two ideological adhesives that truly bind Pakistanis together are (i) Kashmir Jihad and (ii) Anti-Indianism. Islam alone doesn't work, with all the daily sectarian violence and denouncing of Ahmediyas and what not.

 

Giving up on Kashmir by any govt. will be seen as a sign of major weakness and possibly the end of their political career in Pakistan. So civilians and army are in this together. 

 

Expecting practicality and rationality from padosis is a pipe dream. 

Who is "they" here - I'm willing to bet a million dollars - if I had it :) - that if tomorrow the Pakistani government announces a peace deal with India - with LOC as border and a few bells and whistles - HUGE majority of Pakistanis would welcome the peace deal.  But this will not work for them - The PakMil mafia that is a Anaconda Python wrapped around the slowly decaying Pakistani nation - the moment there is genuine peace - or even just a pause in hostility between India and Pakistan, immediately the logical question will start coming up in Pakistan - where is 25% of our annual budget going?  Why are the jernails living in luxury, playing gold, building housing colonies, sending their kids to American colleges while bulk of the country is fighting economic deprivation?  

 

Once things are hostile, and the masses have an enemy to be concerned about - it is human nature to rally around the 'tribe' and assume a 'us vs them' mentality.  Its not the people who are motivated to continue the hostility cycle.  Its the PakMil Mafia and their civilian collaborators.  Of course every few years, the PakMil mafia has to sacrifice a civilian pawn.  The cycle is laughably predictable. It was the military that raised Nawaz Sharif to power, and now he's in jail.  Musharraf was literally the army's man, but now he's being scapegoated and allowed to live out his ears in comfortable exile.  Give it a few years and the PTI is bound to meet the same fate as PML(N).  The only difference being, Imran is too 'popular' to be given the Sharif/Bhutto/Zardari treatment - the public won't buy it so easy.  My prediction is that when the PTI goes down, the army will go with the narrative where Imran was the good-intentioned but clueless leader, and someone else will be the anointed villain of the drama - Jehangir tareen or somebody like him.   

 

And then you will get the stupid greenbros happily parroting the same propaganda - "all these politicians are corrupt, and the reason why Pakistan is in bad shape?  Let me tell you - In Pakistan, its only the army that is the one competent institution that works."   :)

Edited by sandeep

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9 hours ago, motomaverick said:

Apparently they are on a "downgrading" spree. What the fuk do these bhikharis even have that can be downgraded further?

Actually the whole downgrading is all colors added by Pak minister on tv. 

 

Reality is 

Later, a statement released by the Foreign Office spokesperson said that "India has been told to withdraw its High Commissioner to Pakistan."

 

Basically are requesting us to withdraw and making it sound like they have thrown him out. India responded please reconsider for which pakistan is yet to respond. 

 

Now before Pak posters accuse me of making this up below is the source from pakistan. 

https://www.dawn.com/news/1498609/pakistan-suspends-trade-ties-with-india-asks-indian-envoy-to-leave

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9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

67927332_102173954474347_574122950923596

 

 

Mengal Bagh Afridi (the Supreme Commander of Lasker-e-Taiyab):

"I ask Government of Pakistan to make the way free for me to go to India. I will start attack from Indian kashmir at FAJR (morning) Prayer time, and then offer my Zuhr (noon) prayer in the mosque in Mumbai. And if I fail, then change my name from Mengal Bagh Afridi to something else". 

 

@Number, here you have your practical thinking brother. 

Get ready to change ur name to lawda Lassen :hysterical:

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