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Why Steven Smith is the best of the fab four !!!!

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Why Steven Smith is the best of the fab four

 

"I said during the summer that Virat Kohli is the best player I have ever seen but that is just another level… he is the best problem-solver in the game."

Those were the words of Justin Langer, Australia's coach, after Steven Smith's utterly monumental effort at Edgbaston. He scored 39% of Australia's bat runs (runs excluding extras) in the Test, was in the middle when Australia scored 74% of their total runs (571 out of 771), and became only the fourth batsman in history to score 140-plus runs in both innings. All this in the opening match of an away Ashes series, in hostile conditions, in his first Test in 16 months. Just another day (or five days) in the office.

 

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Inevitably, there were comparisons with Kohli - who got hundreds in each innings in Adelaide in 2014, and has been prolific over the last three-and-a-half years - but also with England's captain Joe Root, who has had a bit of a batting slump recently, and who only managed 57 and 28 in the two innings at Edgbaston. ESPNcricinfo presents a comparison among this generations fab four batsmen, along a few key parameters since the start of 2016.

 

 

 

Runs, and contribution to the team's total

 

The overall averages since the beginning of 2016 shows a clear gulf between the top three and Root. Smith, Kohli and Kane Williamson all top 60, while Root languishes at 44.95, below Cheteshwar Pujara, Henry Nicholls and Tom Latham. The fall for Root has been quite significant: before 2016, he averaged 54.68, which means he has dropped around 18% in the last three-and-a-half years.

 

1197170_900x900.png&w=570&format=jpg

 

 

Smith, though, is distancing himself even from this very elite group. Since the start of 2014, he averages a staggering 73.53 and has contributed 20.6% of Australia's total bat runs. In the last three-and-a-half years, his average has seen a very marginal drop - to 70.60 - but Australia's dependency on him increased even further: he has scored 21.25% of the team's bat runs. That is a whopping 35% more than the percentage contribution of Root to England's runs (15.76%). Kohli and Williamson are somewhere in between, but still considerably higher than Root's percentage.

 

 

 

In the Edgbaston Test, Australia scored 74% of their total runs while Smith was out there in the middle. He was involved in 11 partnerships over the course of his two hundreds (came in at two-down, and was last out in the first innings and fifth out in the second). That is an average of 5.5 partners per innings in the Test. For Root, the corresponding values in the Test were 38% and 2.

 

 

The values for: Smith - Partners per inns: 2.68, % team runs: 41.98; Williamson - 2.52, 32.60; Kohli - 2.37, 34.14; Root - 2.22, 29.19

 

Edgbaston was obviously an extraordinary Test for Smith, but the graph above plots those two values for all top-order batsmen in Tests since the start of 2016. A high value for both indicates two things:

 

  • Most of the team's runs are scored when the batsman is at the crease, which means he is a key member of the batting line-up

  • He tends to bat through several wickets falling at the other end, which suggests an ability to bat in difficult conditions/ when there is lack of support at the other end

 

As the graph indicates, Smith stands out on both counts. He bats, on average, with 2.68 partners, and Australia score about 42% of their runs when he is at the crease. For Williamson, the corresponding numbers are 2.52 and 32.60, for Kohli 2.37 and 34.14, and for Root 2.22 and 29.19. Thus, Smith's partners per innings is 21% better than Root's, and his team run percentage is about 44% higher. Kohli's partners per innings is slightly lower than Williamson's despite him having a marginally higher run percentage, which indicates more support from other batsmen, mainly Pujara.

 

 

 

Absorbing the pressure of early wickets

 

In both innings of the Edgbaston Test, Smith walked in to bat early: Australia lost their second wicket at 17 in the first innings, and at 27 in the second. On both occasions, he bested the conditions and the match situation - Australia were also facing a 90-run deficit in the second innings - with great skill and even temperament. In fact, in the 13 innings since January 2016 when Smith has come in to bat at No. 4 before the score has reached 50, he has scored 873 runs at an average of 72.75. He has three centuries in these 13 innings. Apart from the two at Edgbaston, the other one was also in an Ashes opener, at the Gabba in 2017, when he came in at 30 for 2 and remained unbeaten on 141. There was also that unbeaten 48 in Hobart against South Africa in 2016, when he came in at 2 for 2 and watched the entire team collapse for 85, with the next-highest score being 10.

 

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Outside of these 13 instances, there were also seven other times when he came in at No. 3 before the total touched 50 (Actually, Australia didn't even have 25 runs before they needed him). And in these seven innings, Smith scored 458 runs at 65.43, including three hundreds - 119 in Colombo, 109 in Pune, and 111 in Dharamsala. Each time, Australia lost the Test. There were also two other instances when he came in at No. 5 before the total reached 50. In all, there have been 22 times that Smith has come in to bat before the total reached 50 in these last three-and-a-half years and he averages 68.45. That is way higher than Kohli, Williamson and Root in similar situations.

 

 

 

Kohli, in fact, averages the least in this group. As a No. 4, he has begun 22 of his innings before India could get to their fifty, averaging 43.9 with three hundreds - one each in Centurion, Visakhapatnam and Perth - but also four ducks and four other single-digit scores. His overall average of 39.42 in these situations includes a couple of instances of him batting at No. 3 and No. 5, and coming in before India reached 50.

 

Williamson's average touches 50 when he comes in before the team reaches 50, and in 26 innings when he has come in before 25, his average is nearly as good - 49.54. Root averages 42.46 in the 25 innings at No. 4 when he has come in before 50, and 38.94 in 18 innings when he has come in at No. 3 before 25. He did score 254 from No. 3 against Pakistan at Old Trafford when he came in at 25 for 1, though.

 

 

 

Control factor

 

In fairly challenging conditions at Edgbaston, Smith achieved a control factor of 84.9 compared to Root's 79.4. However, over these last three-and-a-half years, among batsmen who have faced 2000-plus balls in Tests and scored at a strike-rate of over 50, neither of them is on top. That honour goes to Williamson, who seldom looks ungainly even when he gets out for a low score. His control percentage is 90.2, followed by Smith's 88.72. Kohli is fifth and Root eighth, with not too much separating them. (The strike rate cut-off is taken to compare the control percentages of batsmen who are reasonably aggressive as well.)

 

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Stats against the top bowlers

 

And finally, a look at how these batsmen have fared against the top bowlers since 2016. The table below lists the top batsmen against bowlers who have taken at least 30 wickets at an average of less than 32 during this period. Thirty-seven bowlers make the cut, and among the 20 batsmen who have scored 1000-plus runs against them, Smith leads the way, again, though his average drops from 70.6 against all bowlers, to 54.87 against this set. Similarly, Kohli's average drops from 65.8 to 46.21, while the drop for Williamson is around 10 runs. The surprise is Root, whose average actually goes up marginally, compared to his overall average during this period.

 

Averages against the top bowlers*

In Tests since Jan 2016

 
Batsman Runs Dismissals Ave
Steven Smith 1,756 32 54.87
Cheteshwar Pujara 1,488 28 53.14
Kane Williamson 1,069 21 50.90
Joe Root 2,413 51 47.31
David Warner 1,319 28 47.10
Virat Kohli 1,525 33 46.21
*Bowlers with 30-plus wickets at ave below 32

 

While Smith leads the averages overall, the break-up of numbers when splitting up this group by pace and spin is quite remarkable. Against the fast bowlers in this group, Smith's average soars to Bradmanesque heights - 93.16, which is twice as many as Kohli and Root; Williamson averages less than 40 against them. Smith's average against the spinners in this group drops considerably - 31.90, and 23.14 against left-arm orthodox spinners. Rangana Herath dismissed him five times for 79 runs, though all of those were in spin friendly conditions in Sri Lanka.

Smith, Root, Kohli, Williamson, v the top pacers and spinners* in Tests since Jan 2016

 

  v Fast bowlers  v Spinners
Batsman Runs Dismissals Ave Runs Dismissals Ave
Steven Smith 1118 12 93.16 638 20 31.90
Joe Root 1498 32 46.81 915 19 48.15
Virat Kohli 1202 26 46.23 323 7 46.14
Kane Williamson 553 14 39.50 516 7 73.71

 

* Bowlers with 30+ wickets at an average below 32 since Jan 1, 2016
If conditions at Lord's provide some assistance to spin, England will hope that their newly inducted left-armer Jack Leach will invoke the spirit of Herath, and do what Stuart Broad and Co failed to at Edgbaston. In almost all the other parameters save the one against spin, Smith is well ahead of his peers. Over the last few years, he has taken Test batting to new heights, and these numbers only further illustrate how and why he is the fabbest of the four.

 

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27370886/stats-analysis-why-steven-smith-best-fab-four

 

Edited by Stan AF

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7 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Kohli has fallen back in T20s. 

last yr he didnt bat at his position.....let see over a period of time to say 

7 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

He is only Bilateral king in ODIs. 

that shudnt take away the crown from him

Some ppl are better in certain situation and some in other ....gambhir was in KO but that doesnt make him the best batsman . 

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43 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

last yr he didnt bat at his position.....let see over a period of time to say 

that shudnt take away the crown from him

Some ppl are better in certain situation and some in other ....gambhir was in KO but that doesnt make him the best batsman . 

Actually i don't care about meaningless runs in bilaterals. I would take a clutch KO player over stat booster. Best batsman and all this nonsense is only for stat lovers who don't see the big picture.

 

For example, Messi and Ronald are considered legends of football but haven't really delivered when needed the most i.e. world cup. They are stat boosters too.

 

 

Edited by WC2011INDIA

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Smith is the best bet to last on any wicket, he has ability to handle any type of bowling.Kohli is a sitting duck against left armers.

comparing Odis with tests. What logic is this?

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6 minutes ago, Insidious said:

Don't think Kohli struggles against left armer in all formats.

My point was about who is the best bet to score runs on any wicket in any format.It is Smith.It does not mean he is the greatest.

Edited by putrevus

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Smith is the best bet to last on any wicket, he has ability to handle any type of bowling.Kohli is a sitting duck against left armers.

kohli isnt a sitting duck against Left armer.....its just in pressure games where he tries to do more and looses his head position. He has no technical weakness against left armers like lets a rohit sharma has or sehwag or mohmmad yosuof had one point of time. Same kohli has played damn good knocks against Amir, Boult, Johnson, starc 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

kohli isnt a sitting duck against Left armer.....its just in pressure games where he tries to do more and looses his head position. He has no technical weakness against left armers like lets a rohit sharma has or sehwag or mohmmad yosuof had one point of time. Same kohli has played damn good knocks against Amir, Boult, Johnson, starc 

 

so you admit that he is a choker.

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15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

My point was about who is the best bet to score runs on any wicket in any format.It is Smith.It does not mean he is the greatest.

If you are a purist and any format means tests and odi world cup knock outs only to you, then you are spot on.

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16 minutes ago, Insidious said:

If you are a purist and any format means tests and odi world cup knock outs only to you, then you are spot on.

Smith has uncanny ability to survive on any wicket. He is not a great T20 or an odi player but in tough match situations he has proved he could atleast survive.In odis sometimes surviving is half the battle won as ball stops doing anything after 10 overs.

 

Kohli in crunch odi matches has not even survived initial spells.Kohli is weakest against left armer seamers.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Smith has uncanny ability to survive on any wicket. He is not a great T20 or an odi player but in tough match situations he has proved he could atleast survive.In odis sometimes surviving is half the battle won as ball stops doing anything after 10 overs.

 

Kohli in crunch odi matches has not even survived initial spells.Kohli is weakest against left armer seamers.

Kohli failed in crunch odi matches because most of the time we have to chase very high total in those matches. In WC semi final, although the total was not that high,  but Kohli had to face Boult and Henry ,probably the best bowlers in the world in those seaming conditions. I don't think Smith could have succeeded against that bowling attack in those conditions.

 

 

 

Edited by Insidious

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2 hours ago, Insidious said:

Kohli failed in crunch odi matches because most of the time we have to chase very high total in those matches. In WC semi final, although the total was not that high,  but Kohli had to face Boult and Henry ,probably the best bowlers in the world in those seaming conditions. I don't think Smith could have succeeded against that bowling attack in those conditions.

 

 

 

Smith succeeded in lot tougher conditions which Kohli unfortunately never did in crunch matches.Chasing high total requires you to stay at the crease which Kohli failed.So he can't do anything on flat pitches nor can he do anything on wickets which offer something to bowlers.What he can do is score meaningless runs in meaningless odis.

 

I am not asking Kohli to win matches, all I am asking from him was give his team a chance but he failed in all three occasions.NZ semis was the unpardonable one.

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He is already a ATG, but if Smith can keep a 60 or higher average after 5-6 years, we can safely announce the GOAT of test cricket, including Bradman.

 

And unlike our maharathis, you know that he is going to retire as soon as he feels he is fading away, judging by the Aussie greats who have set an example before him.

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smith was always better in tests. 

kohli can be considered bilateral king in lois,which his honestly all he ll be remembered for but smith has already won his team a wc which kohli will never do ,atleast as a captain.

so in all honesty,this article is not wrong at all.

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Kohli also won world cup and CT.He was brilliant in T20 world cups if not for Dhoni's stupidity India  should have won atleast one of those two tournaments.He has flopped in big stages in odis and also has not done well in fourth innings in tests.

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even with out all these data, Smith is the best test batsman of the FAB 4 in every body's book. It is in ODIs that he is not up to the mark.

An avg: of 41.41 when  50 is the yardstick of greatness is 'far off'. His  country wise record is even more mediocre. In the 9 countries where he has played at the least a minimum share of matches vs non-minnows, he avg:s <35.42 in 6 of them of which 4 are below 30.Imagine  the  'magnitude of shortage'  from a '50 avg:' point of view

Compare this with Kohli who avg:es 59.71  over all & a minimum of 47.31 in every country...To add to this Kohli is a chase master with 25 of his 41 100s coming in chases.

 

Agree , Kohli has been not up to the mark in world cup Knock outs where Smith has been brilliant. But still, Kohli with a very important knock in 2011 final combined with 3 KO inns in the 'slightly lesser important' Champions trophy is not that far behind in this regard too.  

To add to these Smith is a no body in T20s where as Kohli  avg:s almost 50 with several clutch knocks(far lesser weightage for T20s though).

 

So all in all LIMITED OVERS , Smith is convincingly behind to Kohli  by a margin  than what Kohli lags behind Smith  in tests as of now.

 

So Kohli still leads as of now , for me.

Edited by rtmohanlal

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3 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

even with out all these data, Smith is the best test batsman of the FAB 4 in every body's book. It is in ODIs that he is not up to the mark.

An avg: of 41.41 when  50 is the yardstick of greatness is 'far off'. His  country wise record is even more mediocre. In the 9 countries where he has played at the least a minimum share of matches vs non-minnows, he avg:s <35.42 in 6 of them of which 4 are below 30.

Compare this with Kohli who avg:es 59.71  over all & a minimum of 47.31 in every country...To add to this Kohli is a chase master with 25 of his 41 100s coming in chases.

 

Agree , Kohli has been not up to the mark in world cup Knock outs where Smith has been brilliant. But still, Kohli with a very important knock in 2011 final combined with 3 KO inns in the 'slightly lesser important' Champions trophy is not that far behind in this regard too.  

To add to these Smith is a no body in T20s where as Kohli  avg:s almost 50 with several clutch knocks(far lesser weightage for T20s though).

 

So all in all LIMITED OVERS , Smith is convincingly behind to Kohli  by a margin  than what Kohli lags behind Smith  in tests as of now.

 

So Kohli still leads as of now , for me.

good analysis.

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6 hours ago, putrevus said:

Smith succeeded in lot tougher conditions which Kohli unfortunately never did in crunch matches.Chasing high total requires you to stay at the crease which Kohli failed.So he can't do anything on flat pitches nor can he do anything on wickets which offer something to bowlers.What he can do is score meaningless runs in meaningless odis.

 

I am not asking Kohli to win matches, all I am asking from him was give his team a chance but he failed in all three occasions.NZ semis was the unpardonable one.

Tell me when 'Smith succeeded in a lot tougher conditions' ?  In the semi final, we faced the toughest conditions, with pitch retaining moisture due to over night rain. And NZ has the best swing bowlers in the world, perfect for those conditions. Even English batting line up didn't have any answer to that NZ bowling line up and they were just lucky to win the world cup . I don't think Smith faced any tougher situation than that in ODIs.

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stewie is the best test bat of fab 4 and also the most clutch ODI player. and kane is the most technically proficient of the whole lot. after these two, I'd much rather take che over the past 1-2 yrs than rat and root in tests.

Edited by Vijy

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35 minutes ago, adi B said:

Still sachin would edge him, sachin scored 10k @57 iirc in that era 

Test cricket is no different in any era. Any great player from bradman era averaged around 50 - 55 which is still the same case. Odi's avg has increased with time but not with test. It's not that sachin has batted only on green top or rank turners for most part of his career. 

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6 hours ago, Nikola said:

Test cricket is no different in any era. Any great player from bradman era averaged around 50 - 55 which is still the same case. Odi's avg has increased with time but not with test. It's not that sachin has batted only on green top or rank turners for most part of his career. 

mean batting avgd definitely increased after early 2000s onward. in the 1990s, only 2-3 players avg over 50 whereas that number went up by a factor of 3-4. there was a stats analysis that one can dig up.

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On 8/12/2019 at 4:40 AM, Trichromatic said:

Kohli has fallen back in T20s. 

 

He is only Bilateral king in ODIs. 

He scored 5 fifties in the world cup. He just fails against left arm pacer in ICC knock outs lol An unique kind of failure.

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10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

He scored 5 fifties in the world cup. He just fails against left arm pacer in ICC knock outs lol An unique kind of failure.

He wasn't among top 10 in WC. 

 

He was averaging 80-90 in last few years before WC. That reduced to 55 in WC. While everyone raised their game, Kohli found ways to become irrelevant. 

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I still think SMith will face a low. His funky technique will hurt him during some part of his career.  After 34 tests Mike Hussey was averaging 64. Infact in the first 20 tests Mike Hussey was averaging around 85. Jonathan Trott was averaging around 66 after 20 tests. Smith has managed to stretch that beyond the normal peak.  I still think there will be some low in his career.

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2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I still think SMith will face a low. His funky technique will hurt him during some part of his career.  After 34 tests Mike Hussey was averaging 64. Infact in the first 20 tests Mike Hussey was averaging around 85. Jonathan Trott was averaging around 66 after 20 tests. Smith has managed to stretch that beyond the normal peak.  I still think there will be some low in his career.

big difference between someone who plays 20 tests and someone who plays 65 tests like smith. I think you should have instead referenced dravid and punter. both of them had avgs of close to 60 after playing many many tests, but yet ended with avgs of low 50s.

 

personally, I think smith's avg will decline with age, but only slightly. I still see him as retiring with an avg of 57-58 at the minimum and potentially even over 60.

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2 hours ago, Nikola said:

So basically Smith has to prove himself in odi bilaterlas and Kohli has to prove himself in icc odi knockouts.

I don't think smith will score very heavily in ODI bilaterals - he may bump his avg to high 40s, but even more seems a bit unrealistic. as for kohli, next WC is probably his last realistic chance.

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I agree that Smith is better in Tests thus far in their careers compared to Kohli, but I don't think enough criticism comes from his home record. No one misses a chance to say that Indian players are FTBs or even some bowlers are green top bullies like Anderson and Philander, but no one points out how Smith's absurdly high average is built mostly on the back of his performances in Australia's flat drop in pitches

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

 

His away numbers don't paint the same picture of him. If Sehwag was averaging near 80 in India but his average droped near 20 points outside, we wouldnt hear the end of how he is an FTB and overrated batting on flat Indian pitches... 

 

In ODIs an T20s its not even close however. Thats Even though Rat is a choker in WC semifinals, Smith is nowhere near a top tier ODI bat and the less said about T20 the better.

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10 minutes ago, Moochad said:

I agree that Smith is better in Tests thus far in their careers compared to Kohli, but I don't think enough criticism comes from his home record. No one misses a chance to say that Indian players are FTBs or even some bowlers are green top bullies like Anderson and Philander, but no one points out how Smith's absurdly high average is built mostly on the back of his performances in Australia's flat drop in pitches 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

 

His away numbers don't paint the same picture of him. If Sehwag was averaging near 80 in India but his average droped near 20 points outside, we wouldnt hear the end of how he is an FTB and overrated batting on flat Indian pitches... 

 

In ODIs an T20s its not even close however. Thats Even though Rat is a choker in WC semifinals, Smith is nowhere near a top tier ODI bat and the less said about T20 the better.

although smith's away record is not as strong as his home record, it's still darn impressive. I cannot recall any country where he can be said to have failed. he completely outclassed rat on ind pitches, where rat (in theory) should have made much more. and smith's ODI avg of 40-odd is worth more because of his WC KO record. however, in T20s, I agree there is no comparison between him and even kane and root (and rat is much ahead of this duo of course).

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46 minutes ago, Moochad said:

I agree that Smith is better in Tests thus far in their careers compared to Kohli, but I don't think enough criticism comes from his home record. No one misses a chance to say that Indian players are FTBs or even some bowlers are green top bullies like Anderson and Philander, but no one points out how Smith's absurdly high average is built mostly on the back of his performances in Australia's flat drop in pitches

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

Lol what about all double hundreds and easy runs kohli scored in 2016-17 test series. How many test matches smith plays with srilanka?

 

Quote

His away numbers don't paint the same picture of him. If Sehwag was averaging near 80 in India but his average droped near 20 points outside, we wouldnt hear the end of how he is an FTB and overrated batting on flat Indian pitches... 

This is kohli's stats in tests. Avg of 64 at home vs 46 away.

PMRtvK1.jpg

 

Edited by Nikola

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24 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Kohli is a damn good choker,never fails to choke in crunch moments and sink billion hopes 

with 'such amount of hopes'  comes huge pressure too .That also need to be taken into account  and provided considerations when determining clutch  knocks

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3 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

with 'such amount of hopes'  comes huge pressure too .That also need to be taken into account  and provided considerations when determining clutch  knocks

Nice excuse,people expect from him as they see he can do it, simple

Nobody stops him from doing it

Many greats who have played clutch knocks too were under too much of pressure ,coming from India doesn't means he bears an excuse

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9 hours ago, Nikola said:

Lol what about all double hundreds and easy runs kohli scored in 2016-17 test series. How many test matches smith plays with srilanka?

Lol where did I say Kohli is better?  Literally read my post, I already said Smith has been the better Test player.

Quote

I agree that Smith is better in Tests thus far in their careers compared to Kohli,

Criticizing Smith doesn't mean saying Kohli is better.

 

BTW if Smith played more matches in SL he would look more like a FTB, He has only a 41 average in SL... 

in Australia 2010-2018 29 50 10 3090 239 77.25 5306 58.23 13 10 2 339 12 view innings
in Bangladesh 2017-2017 2 4 0 119 58 29.75 218 54.58 0 1 0 15 0 view innings
in England 2010-2019 13 25 1 1239 215 51.62 2042 60.67 5 4 0 144 12 view innings
in India 2013-2017 6 12 1 660 178* 60.00 1416 46.61 3 1 0 66 3 view innings
in New Zealand 2016-2016 2 3 1 262 138 131.00 399 65.66 1 2 0 31 2 view innings
in South Africa 2014-2018 6 11 1 411 100 41.10 771 53.30 1 2 1 54 5 view innings
in Sri Lanka 2016-2016 3 6 0 247 119 41.16 478 51.67 1 1 0 19 1 view innings
in U.A.E. 2014-2014 2 4 0 174 97 43.50 429 40.55 0 2 1 18 0 view innings
in West Indies 2015-2015 2 4 2 283 199 141.50 538 52.60 1 1 0 28 3

 

And his batting avg vs Spin is much lower than vs pace. This is expected as he grew up playing fast bowling. 

pace bowler 2010-2019 56 13 18 17 0 8 0 0 0 0 53.25 2 view dismissals
spin bowler 2010-2018 44 9 14 7 4 10 0 0 0 0 45.04 2 view dismissals
mixture/unknown 2013-2016 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 35.33 0 view dismissals

 

9 hours ago, Vijy said:

although smith's away record is not as strong as his home record, it's still darn impressive. I cannot recall any country where he can be said to have failed. he completely outclassed rat on ind pitches, where rat (in theory) should have made much more.

I agree there, his record is Sachinesque in Tests right now where he doesn't have a poor record in any major country. Smith can only be said to have failed in Bangladesh, not much of a knock on him b/c Bang isn't a serious Test side yet imo.  

 

Smith's challenge will be to maintain that record through the decline phase of his career. He's right on the cusp of having a mediocre record in SL, SA, and the UAE. One bad series played in those countries can bring his avg in all three below 40.

 

Likewise, he has an over 100 avg in Windies and NZ from having played one series in each country. It will be very difficult to not regress to the mean in either place the next time he plays the series there imo. 

 

My only doubt with him is that he will age more like Sehwag than Sangakarra. Sehwag and Smith are similar to me b/c they have more unorthodox techniques and rely more on hand-eye coordination. When Sehwag's reflexes declined, his performance dropped. Sangakarra was more a classical batsmen, and his decline was more graceful. I am wondering if Smith will go down more like Sehwag.  

Quote

and smith's ODI avg of 40-odd is worth more because of his WC KO record. however, in T20s, I agree there is no comparison between him and even kane and root (and rat is much ahead of this duo of course).

Completely disagree here on ODIs. a 41 avg at an 86 SR is mediocre on any level in ODIs, especially modern day ODIs.   

Rat being a choker in the WC SFs  he has played doesn't make Smith a great ODI player, it just means that Rat hasn't been as good as people think he should've been. It means stop comparing Rat to Sachin or Ponting until he plays a WC innings like those two; it doesn't mean overrate Smith.  

 

Smith's KO record is basically like taking the smallest possible sample size and making that a lone criteria for declaring him a great player in a format. He hasn't done anything in ODIs to warrant reaching the conversation in the first place.

 

He has played basically 1 WC KO innings of note.That doesn't make him a great ODI player. 

WC SF 

Innings by innings list
Runs Mins BF 4s 6s SR Pos Dismissal Inns   Opposition Ground Start DateAscending  
105 121 93 11 2 112.90 3 caught 1   v India Sydney 26 Mar 2015 ODI # 3645
85 201 119 6 0 71.42 3 run out 1   v England Birmingham 11 Jul 2019 ODI # 4191

 

vs India

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8039/scorecard/656493/australia-vs-india-2nd-semi-final-icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15

 

Steve Smith's greatest fortune was that he scored a century vs us in a WC SF and some of our fans are having PTSD from that one innings. The same thing with Amir in the CT Final.  We had a rank mediocre attack(Mohit, Shami, Yadav, Ashwin, Jadeja), outside of Yadav who had a 4-for that match all else failed that match but even he was still was a spraygun at 8 RPO. 

 

Playing at home on a flat pitch + batting first + crap bowling attack = the basically the entire Aussie side had a field day.  

 

vs England

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8039/scorecard/1144529/england-vs-australia-2nd-semi-final-icc-cricket-world-cup-2019

I mean he scored 85 at a 71 SR on a pitch where the Poms chased the target in 33 overs. When Dhoni comes in after a few wickets have fallen and does his usual tuk tuk to get us to a mediocre total, we are all ready to drop him. Smith does the same thing in a WC SF vs their arch rivals and we hype him up.

 

That one innings show how limited a player he truly is in ODIs, despite playing 119 delieveries he wasn't even able to get in the stratosphere of a run-a-ball and his team puts up such a poor total that England comfortably chase it.  His counterpart Root showed a much greater array of shots. 

 

Its similar in the WC final

Career averages
  Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
unfiltered 2010-2019 118 104 12 3810 164 41.41 4414 86.31 8 23 5 322 33 Profile
filtered 2014-2016 4 4 1 152 56* 50.66 195 77.94 0 1 0 14 0  
Innings by innings list
Runs Mins BF 4s 6s SR Pos Dismissal Inns   Opposition Ground Start DateAscending  
10 20 15 2 0 66.66 3 caught 1   v South Africa Harare 6 Sep 2014 ODI # 3526
40 73 50 5 0 80.00 3 stumped 1   v England Perth 1 Feb 2015 ODI # 3597
56* 137 71 3 0 78.87 3 not out 2   v New Zealand Melbourne 29 Mar 2015 ODI # 3646
46 106 59 4 0 77.96 3 caught 1   v West Indies Bridgetown 26 Jun 2016 ODI # 3756

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8039/scorecard/656495/australia-vs-new-zealand-final-icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15

The Aussie bowlers knock over the Kiwis for 188 and the Aussies have a pressure free chase, where again, Smith scores a half century at a below 80 SR while his teammates Warner and Clarke both go at over 90+. His teammates do the heavy lifting and he gets a 'clutch' reputation for being the 3rd best batsman from his own side in that game. 

 

Basically only 1 of the 3 WC KO matches he even played at over an 80 SR or did anything which we can call a great performance. From that we are led to believe he deserves to be mentioned among good ODI players? Divorce Rat's failures from teh conversation and no one would rate Smith highly in ODIs imo. 

 

If we rate Smith as a 'great' ODI player based off of one great knock. Then Umesh Yadav is a great ODI bowler because his one WC SF performance he picked 4 wickets at an 18 avg. 

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