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Real McCoy

China discussion thread

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There is too much attention given to Pakistan and not enough to China who poses a much more serious threat economically, geopolitically and militarily than padosis. Bashing Pakistan is like a winning a JAMODI series in cricket. Feels good but ultimately useless in the grander scheme of things. I know padosis bash India to feel good but since they are a failed state, they have no other option. Just because they used to be part of India doesn't mean they should get undivided attention. China OTOH, are doing way better than India at the moment and are winning this battle on all fronts. We have to look in China's direction and try to improve our standing vis-a-vis China and let go of the frog in the well attitude of bashing al bakis. Lets discuss on China

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We need Pakistan to show any credble resistance against China. I will say whole of SAARC will have to come to together to fight China else they will make each of those nations as their colony. There is nothing in common between SAARc nations and Chinese. We dont speak same, We don’t eat same, we dont believe same, we Don’t look same. They have no sympathy or apathy with people of SAARC. 

 

On top they Have allready got Pakistani Army and Top people by CPEC loans at 18% APR.

when CPEC was anounced I projected that Chinese would have got Pakistan irrespective of what Pakistani army, media and politicians say and there would have been kickbacks given to Media, Politicians and Armed forces who have knowingly unknowingly sold Pakistan.

IMO, China is enemy to all of SAARC, Not only that, it has finished off SAARC and its already halfway there  to turn them into its colonies.

 

There was a opinion yesterday on Dawn where writer argued that Its time Pakistanis start thinking about themselves and working for themselves then Kashmiris. They have allready done most they could for Pakistanis. Yes, IK was partially right when he said Pakistan is fighting racist ideology, what he missed was Pakistan is a pawn of Chinese racist ideology and sooner, Pakistanis get it better it is.

 

Bottomline: India is only SAARC nation which will survive, rest will drown if they don’t get it right. Myanmar Maldive SriLanka Nepal Bangladesh, Dragon is breathing fire and they all feel the heat.

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We should have good relations with Taiwan, Japan, Korea and rest of SE Asia. If they can use our rivalry with our neighbors, we can also use their rivalry with their neighbors. Our failure to do so right from the get go have set them ahead in the global scene. Also we fvcked up with SL and them going towards China. If we had good relations with SL, there wouldn't be a Chinese port constructed in SL. I don't have any hopes of SAARC getting together anytime soon. India and Pakistan mix like Ganguly and Greg Chappell. SAARC is just good for sporting events with India winning most medals.

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^ I am very clear on one thing. No amount of goodwill, good relationship is going to stop Chinese enteing in these nations. They have money, They have autocratic regime, They are not bound by global morality and ethics. They don’t treat them as same as rest of world, they are not reading history of world, they want to be seen as making History( China has entered Victorian age of British Supremacy), they don’t feel anything is wrong when bringing say Pakistani economy on its knees ( i wont go to other regions keeping discussion India centric), 

India can not fight, might of China in terms of UN, economy, diplomacy or Military. Lets just keep them at bay. China do not want to choose India as enemy. It thinks it is already ahead of Russia.

Chinese feel America is their league . They are playing ball with Trump. Either SAARC come together like EU or just keep heads down

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^ Infact, few month back, there was some discussion about responsible lending , its rules because the way OBOR is bringing down small nations in name of Infra development.

 

China policy pillars basic 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

 

Here Some history 

https://qz.com/1497584/how-chinas-debt-trap-diplomacy-came-under-siege-in-2018/amp/

 

Edited by mishra

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43 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ I am very clear on one thing. No amount of goodwill, good relationship is going to stop Chinese enteing in these nations. They have money, They have autocratic regime, They are not bound by global morality and ethics. They don’t treat them as same as rest of world, they are not reading history of world, they want to be seen as making History( China has entered Victorian age of British Supremacy), they don’t feel anything is wrong when bringing say Pakistani economy on its knees ( i wont go to other regions keeping discussion India centric), 

India can not fight, might of China in terms of UN, economy, diplomacy or Military. Lets just keep them at bay. China do not want to choose India as enemy. It thinks it is already ahead of Russia.

Chinese feel America is their league . They are playing ball with Trump. Either SAARC come together like EU or just keep heads down

Come to think of it, no country runs on pure moral doctrine. Only that some countries are worse than others. Chinese are more brutal even to their own forget rest of the world. I know India can't meet Chinese in terms of growth but SAARC is out of the question. The second biggest player in SAARC now third :giggle: is already in bed with China. SL is caught in no man's land. The best that India can hope for is be like France/Spain/other European powers during the heights of British supremacy. Maybe Russia, Japan and India will see some common interest and keep China honest and at bay

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48 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ Infact, few month back, there was some discussion about responsible lending , its rules because the way OBOR is bringing down small nations in name of Infra development.

 

China policy pillars basic 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

 

Here Some history 

https://qz.com/1497584/how-chinas-debt-trap-diplomacy-came-under-siege-in-2018/amp/

 

I know Africa is unhappy with Chinese "investment". I think Africa was better under European powers. China is a different beast. Communism has destroyed its soul and I fear they will be even more ruthless than the British

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59 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Come to think of it, no country runs on pure moral doctrine. Only that some countries are worse than others. Chinese are more brutal even to their own forget rest of the world. I know India can't meet Chinese in terms of growth but SAARC is out of the question. The second biggest player in SAARC now third :giggle: is already in bed with China. SL is caught in no man's land. The best that India can hope for is be like France/Spain/other European powers during the heights of British supremacy. Maybe Russia, Japan and India will see some common interest and keep China honest and at bay

There is difference. Go to Pakistani forum, half their members will be preaching nuke India, Half will be preaching, use conventional Jihadis And bomb Hindu areas of LoC. I am certain that in a hypothetical scenario say india didnyhad nukes, if today Pakistan nukes Delhi, forget protests, their people will not even record it as tragedy in their History, instead they will write articles of praise.

 

Economic and military advancements does not necessarily mean advancement in society moral and ethical standards. Chinese don’t see Africans or Indians , middle easterns as people and land of people, Rightnow they are in conquest mode. Some people talk about Xinjiang, most forget that Who the hell will oppose Dalai Lama and sovereignty of Buddhist monks of Tibet.

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1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

I know Africa is unhappy with Chinese "investment". I think Africa was better under European powers. China is a different beast. Communism has destroyed its soul and I fear they will be even more ruthless than the British

On economic front, Pakistans role to India is massive. The day, Pakistanis see the light, Instead of fighting/opposing India, why not accept India as neighbours and work with India, it will be game changer. I am yet to see a Pakistani General or Politician having balls big enough. When their awaam understay that 200 millions Muslims live In India, so how handfull 10millions Kashmiri Muslims only will become victims?

Just like Bongs, Pakistani state doesn’t need Chinese weapons to get peace. Water from Ganga and Brahmaputra reach Bangladesh evey year. Bangladesh hasn’t lost a feet of land till date. 

 

SAARC was a brilliant concept, would have done massinve favours and brought peace to region for good. Just think, a single currency in SAARC nation, free ViSA free travle from Maldives to laddakh or Dimapur to Kabul via Sylhet.

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BJP is little soft with China ..

We are a potential market for their finished goods like electronics , solar panels etc ..

 

Whenever we get an opportunity we should pile them 

 

Start with Huawei 5G network bid .. just like IPL , invite Huawei but ask our telecom companies not to pick them :lol:

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1 hour ago, sergio04 said:

India should concentrate on taking their economy to 10 trillion by 2032.

Until then don't pick unnecessary fight with China.

Our time will come after 2035.

Wonder what the peaceful population will be by then? China has taken care of its peaceful pop, what about us? It is politically incorrect to say these things but radical Muslims (majority) will be a big obstacle for our progress, like termites eating India from inside. Already saw Owaisi frothing at the mouth when Modi talked about population control on I-day.  By 2035 Assam will fall to outsiders, then Bengal, Kerala next in line. We need NRC all over India, strip the illegals of citizenship, if possible send them back to where they came from and punish those who breed like rabbits.  Lot of bold decisions have to be made, Kashmir was just the start. Why did we not push for more thorough population transfer in 47 :wall:? Best hope is to enforce a dominant ideology (comprehensive, not just cultural/social) and bring Muslims under its fold, you can see the difference in attitude in BJP Muslims, need more of their kind who accept and take pride in their Indic roots. 

Ambedkar rightly said:

Quote

“Hinduism is said to divide people and in contrast Islam is said to bind people together. This is only a half-truth. For Islam divides as inexorably as it binds. Islam is a close corporation and the distinction that it makes between Muslims and non-Muslims is a very real, very positive and very alienating distinction. The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. There is a fraternity, but its benefit is confined to those within that corporation. For those who are outside the corporation, there is nothing but contempt and enmity. The second defect of Islam is that it is a system of social self-government and is incompatible with local self-government, because the allegiance of a Muslim does not rest on his domicile in the country which is his but on the faith to which he belongs. To the Muslim ibi bene ibi patria [Where it is well with me, there is my country] is unthinkable. Wherever there is the rule of Islam, there is his own country. In other words, Islam can never allow a true Muslim to adopt India as his motherland and regard a Hindu as his kith and kin.”

Not PC but Babasaheb can't be accused of bias, guy was straight as an arrow.

Edited by Gollum

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@sergio04 why there is reason to worry is because often history is a guide for our future. Read about how Vijayanagara empire fell in Battle of Talikota, that empire was one of the richest (not just economically but also in the cultural sphere) and most glorious of its kind in that era. Very just, secular/tolerant:nervous:, powerful yet the circumstances in which it fell and the aftermath (probably most brutal massacre, pillage in our medieval history, never taught in our history books for obvious reasons)....should always be a lesson for all dharmics. 

Edited by Gollum

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Respect to China, their people have sacrificed a lot all these years and are now reaping victories in all spheres. Hate those bastards all you want but always there will be grudging respect, they should be the benchmark. Before anyone brings up their atrocious HR record, I'll just say all countries do that or have done that during periods when they became successful, look at the successful Western European countries and how they acted in the last 100-120 years (before that colonialism which gave them tremendous economic push). And what the * have we achieved in HR sphere that we even take that into consideration, manual scavenging is yet to be eliminated FFS. This new look BJP is our last bet, only people who can put us on the right path. China is in a different league but if we get our **** together who knows after 30 years we might narrow the gap significantly and become envy of the world. *ing Congress has all but destroyed this country, missed so many opportunities because of that useless dynasty. 

Edited by Gollum

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45 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Wonder what the peaceful population will be by then? China has taken care of its peaceful pop, what about us? It is politically incorrect to say these things but radical Muslims (majority) will be a big obstacle for our progress, like termites eating India from inside. Already saw Owaisi frothing at the mouth when Modi talked about population control on I-day.  By 2035 Assam will fall to outsiders, then Bengal, Kerala next in line. We need NRC all over India, strip the illegals of citizenship, if possible send them back to where they came from and punish those who breed like rabbits.  Lot of bold decisions have to be made, Kashmir was just the start. Why did we not push for more thorough population transfer in 47 :wall:? Best hope is to enforce a dominant ideology (comprehensive, not just cultural/social) and bring Muslims under its fold, you can see the difference in attitude in BJP Muslims, need more of their kind who accept and take pride in their Indic roots. 

Ambedkar rightly said:

Not PC but Babasaheb can't be accused of bias, guy was straight as an arrow.

I like your comments but gollum bhai calm down a little bit. Its not that bad :phehe: Sometimes you go overboard on the doom and gloom. Whenever I see you post like this, I see this cornball clip

 

tumblr_inline_pq5qyosDpo1rm714d_540.gif

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4 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I like your comments but gollum bhai calm down a little bit. Its not that bad :phehe: Sometimes you go overboard on the doom and gloom. Whenever I see you post like this, I see this cornball clip

 

tumblr_inline_pq5qyosDpo1rm714d_540.gif

I lived in Bengal for enough time to see the ground situation man. Believe me it is bad, even if we course correct, irreversible damage has been done. Assam is practically overrun by Bangladeshi Muslims, let us see what happens post NRC. 

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

@sergio04 why there is reason to worry is because often history is a guide for our future. Read about how Vijayanagara empire fell in Battle of Talikota, that empire was one of the richest (not just economically but also in the cultural sphere) and most glorious of its kind in that era. Very just, secular/tolerant:nervous:, powerful yet the circumstances in which it fell and the aftermath (probably most brutal massacre, pillage in our medieval history, never taught in our history books for obvious reasons)....should always be a lesson for all dharmics. 

BJP is our last bet..

Hope they bring population bill in this term and ucc in next.

If BJP fails to take necessary steps or ignore these issues then civil war is coming in 20 years.

I don't think any kind of education system/secular-secular game will stop Muslims from hating/ killing kaffirs.

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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/more-than-50-companies-reportedly-pull-production-out-of-china-due-to-trade-war.html

Quote

The pace of companies moving production out of China is accelerating as more than 50 multinationals from Apple to Nintendo to Dell are rushing to escape the punitive tariffs placed by the U.S., according to the Nikkei Asian review.

The trade war between the U.S. and China has dragged on for more than a year with 25% tariffs placed on $200 billion of Chinese goods. President Donald Trump is still threatening to slap duties on another $325 billion of goods. In wake of the intensifying battle, more and more companies announced plans or are considering shifting manufacturing from China.

 

American personal computer makers HP and Dell could move up to 30% of their notebook production in China to Southeast Asia, Nikkei reported. Apple has asked its major suppliers to assess the cost implications of moving 15% to 30% of their production capacity from China to India, according to an earlier report from the Nikkei.

Japan’s Nintendo is also going to pull a portion of its video game console production from China to Vietnam, according to Nikkei.

Not only are foreign companies rethinking its production location, a handful of Chinese companies are also leaving China. Chinese multinational electronics company TCL is moving its TV production to Vietnam, while Chinese tire maker Sailun Tire is transitioning its manufacturing line to Thailand, Nikkei reported.

The prolonged trade battle seems to be taking a toll on the Chinese economy. Data on Monday showed its economic growth slowed to 6.2% in the second quarter — the weakest rate in at least 27 years.

This is why the US is the only true Superpower in the world. The extent to which other countries are dependent on the US market has no historical equal.  It's not just China. The US can do this to Europe and the rest of N America, etc as well. 

 

Ironically, because the Indian government has been so incompetent over the decades, and we are a low tier manufacturing country, we are more immune to American bullying. 

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On 8/27/2019 at 9:43 PM, Tibarn said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/more-than-50-companies-reportedly-pull-production-out-of-china-due-to-trade-war.html

This is why the US is the only true Superpower in the world. The extent to which other countries are dependent on the US market has no historical equal.  It's not just China. The US can do this to Europe and the rest of N America, etc as well. 

 

Ironically, because the Indian government has been so incompetent over the decades, and we are a low tier manufacturing country, we are more immune to American bullying. 

That's because they are the numero uno when it comes to innovation, be it on defense or information technology. All China, India and other countries can do is do outsourcing work on the cheap. At least, China is better on that front. The only advantage we have over China is our knowledge of English. If we were colonized by the French or the Spanish, we would have fvcked our IT and call center opportunities too. I see Indians puff up their chest on youtube and FB about how Indians are smart but once some American points out the garbage filled roads or lack of toilet facilities, they shut up or get enraged

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2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

That's because they are the numero uno when it comes to innovation, be it on defense or information technology. All China, India and other countries can do is do outsourcing work on the cheap. At least, China is better on that front. The only advantage we have over China is our knowledge of English. If we were colonized by the French or the Spanish, we would have fvcked our IT and call center opportunities too. I see Indians puff up their chest on youtube and FB about how Indians are smart but once some American points out the garbage filled roads or lack of toilet facilities, they shut up or get enraged

True, true, If it wasn't for the Indian accent, no one would Give them IT jobs.

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Sharing China's sex ratio at birth. Normally it is 105 males born to every 100 females....maybe nature has this ratio because more males die between age 15-25 than females due to recklessness/accidents due to testosterone....China had it as high as 118....which means 13 more than 105 per 100 females born....signs of very huge social distress as atleast 13 males are not gonna find brides per 118 males...(muloghanto made the useless point that they are importing girls from Philippines, Vietnam etc, ignore that point coz imported number of girls would be relatively small)

Screenshot_20190831-201902.jpeg

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Quote

On August 5, 2019, the People's Bank of China set the yuan’s daily reference rate below 7 per dollar for the first time in over a decade. This, in response to new tariffs of 10% on $300 billion worth of Chinese imports imposed by the Trump administration, set to go into effect September 1st, 2019. Global markets sold off on the move, including in the U.S. where the DJIA lost 2.9% in its worst day of 2019 to date.

 

It is just the latest salvo in the U.S. China trade war, but certainly not the first time China has devalued its currency.

 

Key Takeaways

  • After a decade of a steady appreciation against the US dollar, investors had become accustomed to the stability and growing strength of the yuan.
  • China’s President Xi Jinping had pledged the government’s commitment to reform China’s economy in a more market-oriented direction since he first took office in March 2013.
  • Despite the IMF response, many doubted China’s commitment to free-market values arguing that the new exchange rate policy was still akin to a “managed float."
Yuan to Dollar Since 1985
Yuan: Dollar Historical Chart.

The U.S. Treasury Department officially named China a currency manipulator on August 5th, 2019. It was the first time the U.S. had done so since 1984. While mostly a symbolic move, the naming opens the door for the Trump administration to consult with the International Monetary Fund to eliminate any unfair advantage China's currency moves have given the country.

https://www.investopedia.com/trading/chinese-devaluation-yuan/

 

Trmup has shown more balls than the previous presidents

 

 

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15 hours ago, G_B_ said:

china has weakened the yuan and India must follow suit with the rupee even if it means more inflation.

China is a communist country. Its not fair to follow suit when Indians will pay due to more inflation so that India can act tough

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Its most certainly not a question of acting tough.

 

Its about protecting your own export base.

 

Our trade balance with china will spiral out of control.

 

Not just india but even asean countries are weakening their currency

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On 8/31/2019 at 7:14 AM, Real McCoy said:

That's because they are the numero uno when it comes to innovation, be it on defense or information technology. All China, India and other countries can do is do outsourcing work on the cheap. At least, China is better on that front. The only advantage we have over China is our knowledge of English. If we were colonized by the French or the Spanish, we would have fvcked our IT and call center opportunities too. I see Indians puff up their chest on youtube and FB about how Indians are smart but once some American points out the garbage filled roads or lack of toilet facilities, they shut up or get enraged

That is their relationship with any country though, even countries that innovate and are wealthy like Japan, Germany, Canada. 

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/toppartners.html

Year-to-Date Total Trade

Rank Country Exports Imports Total Trade Percent of Total Trade
--- Total, All Countries 824.1 1,235.8 2,059.9 100.0%
--- Total, Top 15 Countries 580.9 965.0 1,545.9 75.1%
1 Mexico 129.3 179.6 308.9 15.0%
2 Canada 148.6 158.1 306.7 14.9%
3 China 52.0 219.0 271.0 13.2%
4 Japan 36.8 72.9 109.7 5.3%
5 Germany 30.4 62.3 92.6 4.5%
6 Korea, South 28.3 39.2 67.5 3.3%
7 United Kingdom 34.1 31.0 65.1 3.2%
8 France 19.4 29.7 49.1 2.4%
9 India 18.4 29.5 47.8 2.3%
10 Taiwan 15.3 26.0 41.4 2.0%
11 Italy 11.9 28.1 40.1 1.9%
12 Netherlands 26.1 13.7 39.8 1.9%
13 Brazil 20.8 15.5 36.3 1.8%
14 Vietnam 5.1 30.4 35.5 1.7%
15 Ireland 4.4 29.9 34.3

1.7%

 

 

 

 Almost every major country has a huge trade surplus with the US. The US can put similar tariffs that they put on China on any of them and cripple their economies. 

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https://www.petroleum-economist.com/articles/politics-economics/middle-east/2019/china-and-iran-flesh-out-strategic-partnership

China and Iran flesh out strategic partnership

Staggered 25-year deal could mark seismic shift in the global hydrocarbons sector

Quote

Chinese presence

Among other benefits, Chinese companies will be given the first refusal to bid on any new, stalled or uncompleted oil and gasfield developments. Chinese firms will also have first refusal on opportunities to become involved with any and all petchems projects in Iran, including the provision of technology, systems, process ingredients and personnel required to complete such projects.

"This will include up to 5,000 Chinese security personnel on the ground in Iran to protect Chinese projects, and there will be additional personnel and material available to protect the eventual transit of oil, gas and petchems supply from Iran to China, where necessary, including through the Persian Gulf," says the Iranian source.

"China will also be able to buy any and all oil, gas and petchems products at a minimum guaranteed discount of 12pc to the six-month rolling mean price of comparable benchmark products, plus another 6pc to 8pc of that metric for risk-adjusted compensation."

Under the terms of the new agreement, Petroleum Economist understands, China will be granted the right to delay payment for Iranian production up to two years. China will also be able to pay in soft currencies that it has accrued from doing business in Africa and the Former Soviet Union (FSU) states, in addition to using renminbi should the need arise—meaning that no US dollars will be involved in these commodity transaction payments from China to Iran.

Quote

Benefits for Iran

The Iranians expect three key positives from the 25-year deal, according to the source. The first flows from China being one of just five countries to hold permanent member status on the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). Russia, tangentially included in the new deal, also holds a seat, alongside the US, the UK and France.

"In order to circumvent any further ramping up of sanctions—and over time encourage the US to come back to the negotiating table—Iran now has two out of five UNSC votes on its side. The fact that [Iran foreign minister Mohammad] Zarif showed up unexpectedly at the G7 summit in August at the invitation of France may imply it has another permanent member on side," he adds.

A second Iranian positive is that the deal will allow it to finally expedite increases in oil and gas production from three of its key fields. China has agreed to up the pace on its development of one of Iran's flagship gas field project, Phase 11 of the giant South Pars gas field (SP11). China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC), one of China's 'big three' producers, added to its 30pc holding in the field when it took over Total's 50.1pc stake, following the French major's withdrawal in response to US sanctions. CNPC had since made little progress developing SP11—a 30pc+ discount to the global market price on potential condensate and LNG exports could change that.

 

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On 9/4/2019 at 8:28 AM, Tibarn said:

https://www.petroleum-economist.com/articles/politics-economics/middle-east/2019/china-and-iran-flesh-out-strategic-partnership

China and Iran flesh out strategic partnership

Staggered 25-year deal could mark seismic shift in the global hydrocarbons sector

 

Is this China's way of getting back at Trump? 

 

China's geopolitical influence is increasing day by day.. Truly a global superpower 

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13 hours ago, diga said:

Is this China's way of getting back at Trump? 

 

China's geopolitical influence is increasing day by day.. Truly a global superpower 

China is a great power, but not a superpower, IMO, they have too many problems and aren't at the level of the US.

 

Trump moreso forced the Iranians into this move. The US+NATO, Israel, and the Saudis are all after Iran, and with the scrapping of the Iran-deal by Trump, Iran needed to find some security/ally. Only Russia and China have the UNSC veto, but Russia doesn't need Iran's oil. China benefits as they get the oil and get to make investments in Iran. Iran gets a UNSC veto defense from UN sanctions (at least ideally for them).     

 

If Trump wins a 2nd term, there may be even more tariffs on China, which will harm them severely. 

Edited by Tibarn

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