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Vihari or Hardik - Who provides more value to the team

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For this team which is so weak in batting, it is Vihari by long shot.Hardik does not command a place in this team.His batting is too weak.By playing him in England, India lost golden opportunity to win that series.

 

Ideally you want both of them to play in the team especially on away tours but for that to happen Vihari has to open, is he willing to do that and how well can he do that is the question.

 

I don't see how Hardik can find a place in the team for home series.

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3 hours ago, putrevus said:

For this team which is so weak in batting, it is Vihari by long shot.Hardik does not command a place in this team.His batting is too weak.By playing him in England, India lost golden opportunity to win that series.

 

I don't see how Hardik can find a place in the team for home series.

This^^^^^^

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4 hours ago, putrevus said:

For this team which is so weak in batting, it is Vihari by long shot.Hardik does not command a place in this team.His batting is too weak.By playing him in England, India lost golden opportunity to win that series.

Yes hardik doesnt command a place but so didnt anyone else.....

To his credit he played a damn good knock in Sa and won us a game in ENG.....about consistency even if u take pujara overseas ull only find 2 consistent series in his bag in all these years . Consistency overseas is damn tough for specialist forget a developing all rounder .....only virat has been that guy overseas who has been consistent 

 

India didnt lost becoz of pandya , if anything we only won one game coz of him.  India lost becoz no one else apart from kohli stepped up or kohli did not have smith kind of series which is unfair on anyone to demand ......Extra batsman wont have made no diff specially when none commanded a place......and bowlers were anderson, broad who eats everyone alive in england.......

Quote

 

Ideally you want both of them to play in the team especially on away tours but for that to happen Vihari has to open, is he willing to do that and how well can he do that is the question.

No both shudnt play....if it comes to that means one of them has done so well that u cant drop him which was the case with viru when tehy cudnt fit him in middle so opening was the only option left. 

Vihari has had a good series but owning a place is lil distant as of now.....specially we need to see more of him overseas. Good thing is he can bowl which was the main objective to get in pandya ....to add jadeja batting looks to have improved

Quote

 

I don't see how Hardik can find a place in the team for home series.

As of now he wudnt which is not bad as pandya can play domestic cricket or A games if its happening. 

In home series we can play all sought of combination n win but planning for overseas tour is important so if Vihari is the one they think wud be an overseas choice then play him but if they think they ll play pandya then let him play n get some confidence in batting

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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Pandya or pandyas position remains to be the Achilles heels for this side 

I have been supporting him since he burst on to the screen,but seems he hasn't mastered either of his  two crafts,so doesn't merit a place in the test xi

His performance from 2016 has been mixed bag,one two great performances here and there but mostly it has been below mediocre

TM should still play him a year to back his talent and potential,then its all destiny

In India i dont see him in starting xi,even if they rest Bumrah ,playing him over Saini ,Siraj will be unfair on their part

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Not sure why I would want a fast bowling all rounder with average survival  skills to  be part of the team in pace favorable  conditions.. 3 proper fast bowlers is enough.. unless the team wants to sacrifice  on a fast bowler and play Hardik.

 

On spin friendly  conditions management may just go with two out of Ashwin,  Jadeja  and Kuldeep... 

 

I don't mind Hardik in the team  but I find its harder to place him in tests.. LOI, T20 no issues.

 

In tests 5 proper batsmen,  keeper, 4 minimum specialist bowlers leaves one all-rounder or Batsman or extra bowler Depending on the ability of the proper batsmen and bowlers.

 

On topic, Vihari for now gives more confidence at 6... so him over Pandya... it's not like test team misses pandya and somehow he will be the difference between win and loss.

Edited by Cricspin

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No Hardik for Tests.. simply because you can't really define a role for him as a batsman or a bowler that you can hold him accountable for... In LoIs, he is a great asset..

 

So Vihari in Tests for me.. he is a batsman (his primary role), who can chip in with a few overs.

 

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Vihari would be ideal in Indian conditions. His bowling is on the ideal part timer level like Segway or Ganguly and slightly below Sachin. So against SENA teams in our backyard, he provides a third spinner option for 10-15 overs an innings without weakening the batting lineup. Pandya can be more useful overseas but for that he really has to find consistency in his batting. For now it’s Hanuma.

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49 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

I am a very big Hardik Fan.

 

He is God gifted.

Vihari is hardworking and a good batsmen but when you need fast runs ..hardik is ahead.

I would pick Hardik as our no 7.

 

How many times do you need fast runs in test cricket? And if it's about fast runs, why not pick Shubhman gill for that position? Surely he can do what Hardik a claimed to be doing?

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Vihari with his determination has shown to everyone and selectors in particular that he belongs in the team. He puts a prize on his wkt and was able to grind the opposition. Pandya lovers need to understand that he does not have the skill set to replicate what Vihari did. I do not need Pandya to take an ocassional wkt and score few runs. I expect consistency which is missing.

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there is no doubt  that Vihari as a specialist batsman & as a useful   part time spinner deserves his chances. At the same time disappointed that Hardik is denied of his chances too.  His test record after a cycle of tough away series has been satisfactory for a rookie.

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On 9/11/2019 at 1:18 AM, SUMO said:

no place for bits and pieces players in test cricket. Hardik has to get into the team based on one skill set, which he doesn't.

I dont agree with that. Rare to get allrounders who get into their teams based on one skill set. Hardik is not that yet, so we take his value as a combination of both facets. He still better than "bits and pieces"  And as such I think he adds more value than Vihari - as good as Vihari has been.

 

I Dont expect phenomenal consistency from Hardik: Scoring some quick useful runs in the lower middle order and bowling 10 to 12 overs hopefully keeping pressure on, chipping in with a wicket, relieving the pacemen from bowling long hard spells in the heat

 

 

I would go for Hardik instead of Vihari. 2 pacemen and 2 spinners in the bowling attack

Edited by Sooda

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16 minutes ago, Sooda said:

I dont agree with that. Rare to get allrounders who get into their teams based on one skill set. Hardik is not that yet, so we take his value as a combination of both facets. He still better than "bits and pieces"  And as such I think he adds more value than Vihari - as good as Vihari has been.

 

I Dont expect phenomenal consistency from Hardik: Scoring some quick useful runs in the lower middle order and bowling 10 to 12 overs hopefully keeping pressure on, chipping in with a wicket, relieving the pacemen from bowling long hard spells in the heat

 

 

I would go for Hardik instead of Vihari. 2 pacemen and 2 spinners in the bowling attack

That is the definition of bits and pieces player.You don't need that any great allrounder in past merited his place based on one skill.Pandya is neither here nor there.He should have never played so many tests.

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11 hours ago, Sooda said:

I dont agree with that. Rare to get allrounders who get into their teams based on one skill set. Hardik is not that yet, so we take his value as a combination of both facets. He still better than "bits and pieces"  And as such I think he adds more value than Vihari - as good as Vihari has been.

 

I Dont expect phenomenal consistency from Hardik: Scoring some quick useful runs in the lower middle order and bowling 10 to 12 overs hopefully keeping pressure on, chipping in with a wicket, relieving the pacemen from bowling long hard spells in the heat

 

 

I would go for Hardik instead of Vihari. 2 pacemen and 2 spinners in the bowling attack

Even a hapless Kapil Dev, without any bowling partner was a bloody good bowler who used to carry the weight of the bowling. Mediocre allrounders like Heath Streak were out and out genuine pace bowlers. Let's not even talk about Wasim Akram. 

Hardik Pandya has been the single biggest reason for our losses last year. 

I have no qualms about him being in LOI and T20. But he merits no slot in the test team.

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10 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Even a hapless Kapil Dev, without any bowling partner was a bloody good bowler who used to carry the weight of the bowling. Mediocre allrounders like Heath Streak were out and out genuine pace bowlers. Let's not even talk about Wasim Akram. 

Hardik Pandya has been the single biggest reason for our losses last year. 

I have no qualms about him being in LOI and T20. But he merits no slot in the test team.

Hardik averages  31.29 with bat & 31.05 with the ball in tests  after playing  just 11 tests .He played 18 inns bar one   abroad . Has 5 50+ scores of which 3 are  >=71 & another  52* in ENG where he could have added lot more. His  93 came  against a deadly attack when team was  really struggling in SAF. Has a 5 wkt haul in ENG in the lone match India won. If this is at least not  a  satisfactory  record for a rookie, then I don't know what it is.

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Depends on surface 

 

on indian pitches with ashwin And Jadeja I would add a third spinner rather than Pandya as  Jadeja and ashwin give good batting depth 

 

Pandya is v v useful in all outside countries . He is useful as a number 6 batsman . He is the best no 6 india has with Bihari at no 5 Kohli at 4 Pujara at 3 and shaw and Agarwal st 1 and 2 ( sharma is the useless joker and rahane is past his prime ) 

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6 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Even a hapless Kapil Dev, without any bowling partner was a bloody good bowler who used to carry the weight of the bowling. Mediocre allrounders like Heath Streak were out and out genuine pace bowlers. Let's not even talk about Wasim Akram. 

Hardik Pandya has been the single biggest reason for our losses last year. 

I have no qualms about him being in LOI and T20. But he merits no slot in the test team.

This^^^^^

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5 hours ago, Khota said:

This^^^^^

 

11 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Even a hapless Kapil Dev, without any bowling partner was a bloody good bowler who used to carry the weight of the bowling. Mediocre allrounders like Heath Streak were out and out genuine pace bowlers. Let's not even talk about Wasim Akram. 

Hardik Pandya has been the single biggest reason for our losses last year. 

I have no qualms about him being in LOI and T20. But he merits no slot in the test team.

if it is about SAF & ENG series losses,   what about several of the specialist batsmen?  They  have been the culprits  not Pandya

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1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

 

if it is about SAF & ENG series losses,   what about several of the specialist batsmen?  They  have been the culprits  not Pandya

no of course not how can they be responsible .......it has to be pandya 

1st they ll say Pandya is not worthy enough of test spot then they expect consistency from him as well

 

In Sa everyone scored in one inning  apart from kohli - but pandya scores in one inning that has to behighlighted ....not to forget openers n rohit sharma who cudnt even score in one innings

 

In eng.....he won u one n only game but question is why didnt he win u other games......ofcourse they expect the player whom they call worthless to win all games. No one apart from kohli was consistent but blame has to be put on pandya. Who cares atleast he won u one game....need someone to blame .

 

 

Now comes 6th batsman in aus- whose best contribution was mere one fifty which even pandya scored in eng n sa.....but his one fifty is seen as game changer - not our bowling , not steve smith absence , not pujara consistency which was missing in SA n ENG

 

Vihari scores in WI so ofcourse he is better then pandya ......WI n ENG, SA attacks are after all of same quality n pitches are equally hard . Im not saying vihari is bad.....but if comparisons are to be done lets judge them on equal ground coz even vihari didnt do anything in Aus 

 

 

They are spot on....it was becoz of pandya we lost.....coz acc to them he cant earn a spot in team on any basis but has to be consistent for sure even if others are not 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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On 9/12/2019 at 5:45 PM, Khota said:

Rohit opening is the right call.

 

On 9/12/2019 at 5:32 PM, Khota said:

Vihari with his determination has shown to everyone and selectors in particular that he belongs in the team. He puts a prize on his wkt and was able to grind the opposition. Pandya lovers need to understand that he does not have the skill set to replicate what Vihari did. I do not need Pandya to take an ocassional wkt and score few runs. I expect consistency which is missing.

 

On 9/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Khota said:

This^^^^^^

 

This^^^^^^ is what u call hypocrisy .........Expecting pandya to be consistent n other hand saying making rohit an opener is fair

 

Pandya who made 90+ in SA as compare to rohit who after 2 tour doesnt even have 100 run in total

Pandya who has won a game overseas vs Rohit who has been one the worst Indian batsman in overseas 

 

Selection of Rohit is right as compare to guys like gill, easwaran, panchal who has done every thing to earn a place but we have to fit rohit somewhere as he has failed everywhere so lets try him at one more slot

 

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20 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

if it is about SAF & ENG series losses,   what about several of the specialist batsmen?  They  have been the culprits  not Pandya

This has been discussed to death, the specialist bats are responsible for batting & answerable in such cases! What is Pandya in the team for? Also Curran - batting lower down the order is (slightly) easier than batting at the top, just look at the current Ashes! Depending on who you ask the pitches are easier than our series & as we know Curran was the (major) difference between the 2 sides, how come Panyda has just 1 innings of note with bat+ball out of 8 he played in? The same was the case in SA, you can't keep deflecting to - butt butt other batters, all the time you know :no:

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1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

 

if it is about SAF & ENG series losses,   what about several of the specialist batsmen?  They  have been the culprits  not Pandya

Get off Pandya bandwagon. Wheels are coming off.

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6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

 

This^^^^^^ is what u call hypocrisy .........Expecting pandya to be consistent n other hand saying making rohit an opener is fair

 

Pandya who made 90+ in SA as compare to rohit who after 2 tour doesnt even have 100 run in total

Pandya who has won a game overseas vs Rohit who has been one the worst Indian batsman in overseas 

 

Selection of Rohit is right as compare to guys like gill, easwaran, panchal who has done every thing to earn a place but we have to fit rohit somewhere as he has failed everywhere so lets try him at one more slot

 

Noone has milked 90+ more than Pandya and his followers. Rohit has much higher ceiling and can scores centuries consistently. pandya never will.

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2 minutes ago, Khota said:

Noone has milked 90+ more than Pandya and his followers. Rohit has much higher ceiling and can scores centuries consistently. pandya never will.

find me something that u can milk for Rohit....rohit cant even score a total of 90 on two tours whichis total of 8 innings 

Chal tu utna hi dhundh le ......atleast we have something to milk what do  u have for rohit to milk

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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2 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

This has been discussed to death, the specialist bats are responsible for batting & answerable in such cases! What is Pandya in the team for? Also Curran - batting lower down the order is (slightly) easier than batting at the top, just look at the current Ashes! Depending on who you ask the pitches are easier than our series & as we know Curran was the (major) difference between the 2 sides, how come Panyda has just 1 innings of note with bat+ball out of 8 he played in? The same was the case in SA, you can't keep deflecting to - butt butt other batters, all the time you know :no:

Mr. Ankit Sharmas sports sense is very poor. He does not get it that batting at 6 down is little bit different than batting at top. But but but Pandya scored 90 in SA.

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

find me something that u can milk for Rohit....rohit can even score a total of 90 on two tours

Chal tu utna hi dhundh le ......atleast we have something to milk what do  u have for rohit to milk

He was just the top batsman in the WC. What more do you want?

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Just now, Khota said:

Mr. Ankit Sharmas sports sense is very poor. He does not get it that batting at 6 down is little bit different than batting at top. But but but Pandya scored 90 in SA.

ofcourse its diff.....rohit cant handle new or old ball while batting at 6

how will he handle a new ball at open when even the pitch is fresh

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10 minutes ago, Khota said:

He was just the top batsman in the WC. What more do you want?

since u have color deficiency The diff is test is played with red ball n ODI white ball 

Wc was ODI - even warner , roy , bairstrow scored

This is test- now warner roy bairstrow all are failing

 

Red ball swing more...turns more

White ball is ineffective after few overs only, In odi only kookabura is used.....but in test duke, SG, Kookabura all are used

 

Extreme basics even kids knws that

Simple question he has been one of the most consistent batsman for India in ODI for 6 years then how is it he fails in test since WC runs is ur logic ???? Explain 

 

I havent seen such poor knowledge....with so many recent example ur giving me WC runs 

 

IF u want a video example

this is what happens in test cricket

 

 

Now i knw u wnt even answer one of my facts so go ahead pump some **** like ravi shastri

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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18 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

since u have color deficiency The diff is test is player with red ball n ODI white ball 

Red ball swing more...turns more

Conveniently this is forgotten for Pandya, every time! What has he achieved besides a handful of innings in tests? His best innings have all been in Asia, the 90 everyone keeps raving about - he was dropped early on & then basically played a T20 innings after that - want more proof check the rest of his innings in SA & Eng. He isn't test player, at least not until he does something to prove that first in FC :om:

 

That's probably true only for Dukes & even that on flat surfaces in England. I know for a fact that back in the 90's & even early 2k there were pitches where the white ball swung like crazy, this was especially true in Oz & SA under the lights. Heck we saw the same in the WC, the only thing is that white ball loses it's shine quicker & one could argue it's also made "not to last" the distance.

 

I'm not an advocate of fat belly in tests, heck I wouldn't care if he retired from LO as well as he isn't the person I want opening for India in 2023 WC, however deflecting from Pandya's obvious weaknesses helps none.

Edited by R!TTER

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6 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

l

 

Coneveniently this is forgotten for Pandya, every time! What has he achieved besides a handful of innings in tests? His best innings have all been in Asia, the 90 everyone keeps raving about - he was dropped early on & then basically played a T20 innings after that - want more proof check the rest of his innings in SA & Eng. He isn't test player, at least not until he does something to prove that first in FC :om:

he has played 11 test .....11 men handful nhin to kya steve smith mielga

out of 11 test 7 test he has played in ENG n SA where no one was consistent ......on those 2 tour not even pujara, rahane...apart from kohli no one was consistent.....so what is this expectation from someone whom u dont even consider test player. 

 

Most big innings come with some luck.....rohit sharma had so much luck in Wc, now look at smith 

 

HE doesnt get time to Fc.....when he got injured before Aus he came performing in Domestic game....he was given test cap after he played a dam good knock on Aus-A knock on a green top . Now he ll play Fc....which wud be good for him

 

Also u took curran name

Curren n Pandya both currently avg same in test cricket- 31

Curran with ball has 18 wkts in 10 test , hardik 17 in 11 test 

 

Pretty much close.....now curran has played most test on his home ground . He gets ball in higher pref then pandya being a bowler 

 

 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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Yes, so let's see how he does in FC & then we can get him back. Right now with the way most teams are struggling to field 6 proper bats in tests, it'd be bad to drop Vihari even in India. Of course some pitches might need 5 bowlers, but then Panyda would not be one of them. Outside India I'd want him only on the back of his (notable) performances in FC.

Edited by R!TTER

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5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Yes, so let's see how he does in FC & then we can get him back. Right now with the way most teams are struggling to field 6 proper bats in tests, it'd be bad to drop Vihari even in India. Of course some pitches might need 5 bowlers, but then Panyda would not be one of them. Outside India I'd want him only on the back of his (notable) performances in FC.

Ofcourse u cant drop vihari now.....he has done very well in WI. Its unfair to drop anyone after he performs.....

I think he is one of the best player of spin bowling in country after pujara so he can be a gr8 choice in India + his bowling.......this also gives pandya time to play FC....so this is a good situation for everyone. 

Even though i wud like pandya to play at home n get some scores coz no one will ever have a good record if they only play overseas.....unless ur rahane or darren bravo . But Pandya playing FC wud be good to 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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